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BFGTech GeForce 6800Ultra OC Review@HardOCP.

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Jeeze .. . looks like HardOCP is getting judged as ATI "fans" even though they like the 6800u and it beats the XT-PE in MOST of the benchs (o/c'd)

:Q

Comparing image quality in Flight Sim 2004 we find no visible differences. All cards produce a screen image that is simply some of the best that we have ever seen in this game.

In Flight Sim 2004 the BFG GeForce 6800Ultra OC is much faster than the X800XT-PE. A quick look at the above graph spells out the BFGTech card as pulling easily ahead of ATI's flagship. Even the non-oc NVIDIA GeForce 6800Ultra is faster than the X800XT-PE overall in this game. The BFG GeForce 6800Ultra OC has a faster minimum, maximum and average frame rate.

What was most remarkable is how much the performance has improved with this new 61.34 driver we are testing with. Performance in FarCry is way up, and in Flight Sim 2004 the GeForce 6800Ultra is simply faster than the Radeon X800XT-PE. Things are starting to look up performance wise for the 6800Ultra if this driver version is any indication. As of writing this, we are now testing with v61.45 drivers and it looks as though there are going to be some performance advantages there as well.

the GeForce 6800 is no different. It does some things better than the direct competition and others not. The fact of the matter is this though. This BFGTech GeForce 6800Ultra OC does everything very well when it comes to gaming. The BFGTech card is a product that many of you are going to be very happy with.

Right now if you are in the market for a GeForce 6800Ultra based video card you cannot go wrong with the BFG GeForce 6800Ultra OC.

It's great to see more than one choice back on the store shelves when it comes to video card technologies once again. Also we have a gut feeling that this card is going to do very very well at supporting DOOM3 game play.

:Q

😀

I guess the GF6800U (o/c) is simply faster than the XT-PE 😛
(of course resuts are "weighted" when you bring heavy aa/af into the pic)

and more driver improvements rolling out from nVidia . . . 😉
 
Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
God, i hate |H| reviews. They aren't even using the same settings for the card. I mean come on how the hell is a card running at 1600x1200 staying equal with and sometimes winning over a card that is running at 1280x1024. |H| has become more of a clan... thx for the review anyways, but ill stick to Toms, Anandtech, ya know. Im not saying |H| reviews badly they are having some big problems lately though.

-Kevin

Try reading sometime, instead of just looking at graphs.

In case you also have problems clicking on links...

Please be aware we test our video cards a bit different from what is the norm. We concentrate on examining the real-world gameplay that each video card provides. Gameplay includes performance and image quality evaluation. We have two sections, ?Highest Playable? and ?Apples to Apples?. The Highest Playable section shows the best Image Quality delivered at a playable frame rate. Following the Highest Playable section we have a brief Apples to Apples performance section for those that find benefit of framerates with matching IQ. We use a high performance system, with a very fast CPU in order to remove CPU bottlenecking.

I'm not defending the valididy of HardOCP reviews, I'm just pointing out their test methodology.
 
I think HardOCP basically relies on tests that favor the ATI cards a bit more such as their choice of places to create a custom demo or taking the highest/lowest numbers of each batch. If the NV card wins, they dont lie. If it loses, they dont lie. They just like to have the ATI card win if possible. Frankly, I like their approach on how they review, but I just think its a bit swayed in the direction of ATI.
 
Originally posted by: Marsumane
I think HardOCP basically relies on tests that favor the ATI cards a bit more such as their choice of places to create a custom demo or taking the highest/lowest numbers of each batch. If the NV card wins, they dont lie. If it loses, they dont lie. They just like to have the ATI card win if possible. Frankly, I like their approach on how they review, but I just think its a bit swayed in the direction of ATI.
You didn't read the article. 😛

:roll:

Or the 3 posts above yours . . .
 
Originally posted by: Marsumane
I think HardOCP basically relies on tests that favor the ATI cards a bit more such as their choice of places to create a custom demo or taking the highest/lowest numbers of each batch. If the NV card wins, they dont lie. If it loses, they dont lie. They just like to have the ATI card win if possible. Frankly, I like their approach on how they review, but I just think its a bit swayed in the direction of ATI.

I'm not pro or con HOCP's approach. I think it was done in good faith, but it requires that the reader place all faith in the impartiality of the author.

The way things are with reviews these days, it's easier just to figure out which company (ATI/NV) the B3D forums are being accused of favoritism towards, and just buy that card.
 
Originally posted by: EngenZerO
Originally posted by: VisableAssassin
They still test on different resolutions....which still boggles my mind
especially since we got a guy over ont he hard forums whos playing Farcry at 16x12 with everything turned on and it plays just fine (according to him...I cant argue I dont have the card) and hes on a 2500 mobile @ 2.5ghz....he hasnt b1tched one time....So I dunno..

I play with all the options on 1600x1200 on my BFG 6800 Ultra OC and I have yet come to complain. it plays the game well. It does help that I am using 61.71 drivers.


system specs and your frames please 🙂
also which AA setting and AF setting are you useing both int he ocntrol panel and in game?
 
Originally posted by: Marsumane
I think HardOCP basically relies on tests that favor the ATI cards a bit more such as their choice of places to create a custom demo or taking the highest/lowest numbers of each batch. If the NV card wins, they dont lie. If it loses, they dont lie. They just like to have the ATI card win if possible. Frankly, I like their approach on how they review, but I just think its a bit swayed in the direction of ATI.


First off, they use fraps most, not timedemos. Got any proof that they use areas of the game that "favor ATi"?

I mean, its not like ATi made 4 timedemos and will be included in a patch of a game or anything. Any idea what IHV did that?
 
AMD 3400+
MSi K8N Neo
1GB Mushkin 222
SB Audigy 2 ZS Plat

Far Cry - 1600x1200 (All options set to very high)

AA and AF set to application preference. Trilinear Optimization on. I find the IQ great. I havn't had a chance to bench it with AA and AF set in the nV Pannel or with my current setup yet. I am actually trying to have fun playing the game.
 
Originally posted by: Leon
Anybody noticed this?

Far Cry

XT 1600 x 1200 no AA no AF
Min fps - 23

XT 1600 x 1200 4xAA 16xAF
Min fps - 25

So, HardOCP telling us that, in most demanding game, under the most demanding conditions, XT min fps actually increase when you enable 4xAA/16xAF.......cough..... I will say no more.

Leon

average is whats counts... its not completely unheard of for FPS to drop down for a split second
 
Originally posted by: Insomniak
Hard OCP is ATi fanboy heaven. I have no need for them anymore.

I agree. I no longer read their videocard reviews. Not only are they biased, but their graphs are nearly impossible to read and they are confusing to understand unless you're reading an "apples to apples" benchmark.
 
Originally posted by: Ackmed
Yeah, because Anand's reviews are so perfect? I think we all know the answer to that one. They've screwed up several reviews.

Ya know, not everyone is perfect but ask any compouter enthusiast which site is the best for reviews, and most will say Anandtech. Yeah TOMs is pretty good but Anandtech is probably the most trusted stie on the net.
Seems like you should be posting in the |h| forums and not in the anandtech forums the way youre insulting everything.

Try reading sometime, instead of just looking at graphs.

I did read!! I know and most everyone knows how |H| does reviews and tests. Ask pretty much anyone out there and they will tell you |H| is biased towards ATI. I mean cmon how the hell is the 6800U running at 1280x1024 SLOWER than an X800XT at 16x12. I have never seen a review on this generatin of cards that bad!

average is whats counts... its not completely unheard of for FPS to drop down for a split second

Average is not all that counts. Yes i understand what you are saying but if that happened like that then they should have started to wonder and rebenched it! Also if they are going to post min and max FPS then using FRAPs is not exactly a good way of doing it. FOr that a timedemo would be best as you see the same things and everything does the same thing.

I agree. I no longer read their videocard reviews. Not only are they biased, but their graphs are nearly impossible to read and they are confusing to understand unless you're reading an "apples to apples" benchmark.

Speak the truth dude!! 🙂

-Kevin
 
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Originally posted by: Insomniak
Hard OCP is ATi fanboy heaven. I have no need for them anymore.

I agree. I no longer read their videocard reviews. Not only are they biased, but their graphs are nearly impossible to read and they are confusing to understand unless you're reading an "apples to apples" benchmark.




Yup. I don't even read HardOCP or Tom's any more. Anandtech, Firingsquad, and Xbit are the only ones I check regularly...and I still take Xbit with a grain of salt...it's not that they're biased, it's just sometimes their reviews are very amateurly done.
 
Originally posted by: Ackmed
Originally posted by: Marsumane
I think HardOCP basically relies on tests that favor the ATI cards a bit more such as their choice of places to create a custom demo or taking the highest/lowest numbers of each batch. If the NV card wins, they dont lie. If it loses, they dont lie. They just like to have the ATI card win if possible. Frankly, I like their approach on how they review, but I just think its a bit swayed in the direction of ATI.


First off, they use fraps most, not timedemos. Got any proof that they use areas of the game that "favor ATi"?

I mean, its not like ATi made 4 timedemos and will be included in a patch of a game or anything. Any idea what IHV did that?

Actually i believe they run a custom demo of farcry on select levels/areas on godmode and use fraps with that. I may be wrong, but that is the example i was thinking of when i typed the above top quote. I read 1/2 the article because it seemed like their other reviews that i have entirely read. I have no evidence of my claims of them doing anything else that i mentioed. Its just speculation.

Anyone else know of what im talking about in how they benchmark farcry in certian instances?
 
I agree Hardcop does favour ATI, I think they would be better off using beta drivers and demos supplied by Nvidia - that would be the unbiased way. I like the idea of Hardcop, as it gives me a feel for what I would gain by upgrading - so I stay at 1024 x 768 in demanding games until price comes down.
 
Originally posted by: ronnn
I agree Hardcop does favour ATI, I think they would be better off using beta drivers and demos supplied by Nvidia - that would be the unbiased way. I like the idea of Hardcop, as it gives me a feel for what I would gain by upgrading - so I stay at 1024 x 768 in demanding games until price comes down.

Was that first sentence sarcasm? Because using nVidia-provided benchmarks *is* biased in a sense, although Anand did use them.
 
Originally posted by: Marsumane


Actually i believe they run a custom demo of farcry on select levels/areas on godmode and use fraps with that. I may be wrong, but that is the example i was thinking of when i typed the above top quote. I read 1/2 the article because it seemed like their other reviews that i have entirely read. I have no evidence of my claims of them doing anything else that i mentioed. Its just speculation.

Anyone else know of what im talking about in how they benchmark farcry in certian instances?

No, they dont use timedemos for Farcry. The main reason is, their timedemo feature sucks. It does NOT represent real gameplay, no AI, no gunfire, etc. Playing thru with FRAPS logging the frames, is currently the only way to truely test Farcry.
 
If they play through with FRAPS, how do they guarantee they are getting the same thing each time for the different cards?

Also, did they ever post what settings they used for the Nvidia AF and Trilinear optimizations? I can never seem to find out how the different sites are settting those, but maybe I'm just missing it when I read the article.

My only issue with the H review is that they make a judgement call on what they consider "equally playable" but often don't let the viewer see the other results. I'm glad they added the "apples to apples" section, since it helps clear that up a bit, but when they do the "apples to apples" why can't they use the same setting they use in the initial test. If you look at the Far Cry "applies to apples" they use 1600x1200 4/16, whereas they use 1600x1200 2/8 in the initial test. The ATI card performs essentially the same at those two settings, (min FPS is 1 different, average is 3, max is quite a bit more, but not really important). So if they are really evaluating "best image quality @ a certain speed" then they should have used 4/16 AA/AF in the original test. I don't fault their layout, and I really like the fact that they show the graph for the entire demo instead of just min, max, and average. But they use inconsistent judgement and don't give us enough information to read between the lines. If they could improve their scientific method I feel that their reviews would be much more informative since we could use them in conjunction with the others out there to try and determine how the cards would work in our situation. Currently though, I feel their reviews are incomplete.

Also, I wonder what causes the low points in the charts. It seems like sometimes you see all the cards take a dip at certain points, which makes sense, but then other times it seems like only one of the cards will take a dip, while the other doesn't. It makes me wonder if there are other things happening that cause that. For example, if you look @ the frist Far Cry chart, you will see that there are two occasions (51 and 61 time) where the 6800U/OC drops down to it's lowest point, but the normal 6800 is about 5 FPS faster in those specific locations. Anyhow, little things like that just make me wonder how repeatable the results are.

I don't know if they are ATI biased or Nvidia biased (and don't really care), and instead use their site just like I use all the others: as another data point to use to find a trend that indicates whether one card is significantly better than another. Since they leave many unanswered questions in their reviews, I usually don't give them as much weight as other sites, but data is still data, and the more the merrier IMO. So far, it looks like the X800XT is the fastest card in pure FPS, but the 6800's are close behind and have some additional features so all these cards are good choices IMO. Nice not to have to worry about getting a looser card this time around.

-D'oh!
 
Wow, ignorance is bliss I guess.

All you do is troll after me, dont expect me to reply to your post anymore.


troll (COMPUTING): to leave an intentionally annoying message on a part of the Internet in order to get attention or cause trouble

To me you sould more like a troll than the others you're attempting to refer to as.

lop
 
Originally posted by: Ackmed
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: Ackmed
Wow, ignorance is bliss I guess.

They dont use beta drivers (except when they have to because NV cant get an official set out), beta patches, beta anything. They dont like to use what people cant get themselves. Also, he stated he didnt have the patch when he did the review. The review has been done for a few weeks, well before the patch was "out". A policy that Anand used to use, but not anymore.

How many times do I have to tell you? Stop being insulting and rude please.

Oh and thanks for the review Mem!
:beer:


Its not insulting someone. And I dont really care what you tell me to do.

Ignorance: The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.

He didnt know what he was talking about. Calling someone ignorant is not a slader on them, its the same as telling someone they dont know what they're talking about, just with using less words. He has made other topics to back this up.

All you do is troll after me, dont expect me to reply to your post anymore.

Ackmed i can surmise that youre a jaded, snide little boy.... but thats not insulting is it. Because i can look up the definitions. :roll:

STOP POSTING!
 
Originally posted by: Ackmed
Wow, ignorance is bliss I guess.

They dont use beta drivers (except when they have to because NV cant get an official set out), beta patches, beta anything. They dont like to use what people cant get themselves.


heheh, by that thinking they shouldn't even have reviewed the card, considering that about 10 people have been able to get one.
 
You aren't either ackemd! Now you keep dragging people into this flamewar. So STOP!!!

Cmon guys lets get back on topic! 🙂

-Kevin
 
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Originally posted by: ronnn
I agree Hardcop does favour ATI, I think they would be better off using beta drivers and demos supplied by Nvidia - that would be the unbiased way. I like the idea of Hardcop, as it gives me a feel for what I would gain by upgrading - so I stay at 1024 x 768 in demanding games until price comes down.

Was that first sentence sarcasm? Because using nVidia-provided benchmarks *is* biased in a sense, although Anand did use them.


No more a form of jaded irony. Just seems the fanboys are quick to call any site biased, well guess what most are biased. Still no one can question Hardcops test results (no big biased errors, like one site), just their conclusions.
 
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