BFG 7800 GTX $47X and ATI X800 XTPE $229

[Drayvn]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: munky

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: munky
In two years, the 6xxx series will be the equivalent of the radeon 9700 or the FX cards today. You will not be running HDR or soft shadows or any other of those sm3 "features" at anything greater than 640x480 0x0x, if you're lucky.

/thread

See, that's pretty funny as I don't see a 9700 restricted to 640x480 these days, do you?

Right, but that's because it doesnt have to deal with HDR or softshadows that would cut the fps in half. So for the 6800 series, you would need to turn off the sm3 eye candy to be able to play at higher res.

I see your point, but your speaking for games that haven't even come out yet and there is not telling how well or how poorly they will be coded and if there will be any improvements in the coding for HDR and Softshadows. As you and I both know, everything improves with time.

Actually if i remember correctly the UE3.0 stuff when it comes out the 6600GT can run it but without pretty much all the features in the engine. Its in some interview i read some time ago. So if thats the 6600GT, well the 6800GT is about 2x the speed or about that, so you could have most of the features on maybe all but i doubt that. So if the 6800GT could probably run all the features on barely. Then think about the year after that...

And those games are coming out mid next year, or is Gears of War coming out this year. Well if it is the PC version still gonna take 6-9 months to come to PC... damn Microshaft...

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Drayvn

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: munky

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: munky
In two years, the 6xxx series will be the equivalent of the radeon 9700 or the FX cards today. You will not be running HDR or soft shadows or any other of those sm3 "features" at anything greater than 640x480 0x0x, if you're lucky.

/thread

See, that's pretty funny as I don't see a 9700 restricted to 640x480 these days, do you?

Right, but that's because it doesnt have to deal with HDR or softshadows that would cut the fps in half. So for the 6800 series, you would need to turn off the sm3 eye candy to be able to play at higher res.

I see your point, but your speaking for games that haven't even come out yet and there is not telling how well or how poorly they will be coded and if there will be any improvements in the coding for HDR and Softshadows. As you and I both know, everything improves with time.

Actually if i remember correctly the UE3.0 stuff when it comes out the 6600GT can run it but without pretty much all the features in the engine. Its in some interview i read some time ago. So if thats the 6600GT, well the 6800GT is about 2x the speed or about that, so you could have most of the features on maybe all but i doubt that. So if the 6800GT could probably run all the features on barely. Then think about the year after that...

And those games are coming out mid next year, or is Gears of War coming out this year. Well if it is the PC version still gonna take 6-9 months to come to PC... damn Microshaft...

Same principle Dravyn. Game you mentioned is nowhere near out yet, nor optimised, nor completed. After it comes out, and if a 6800GT can't run it decently, then you will have my agreement.

I guess the first real test will be this FEAR game. It's due out in October.

 

[Drayvn]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Drayvn

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: munky

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: munky
In two years, the 6xxx series will be the equivalent of the radeon 9700 or the FX cards today. You will not be running HDR or soft shadows or any other of those sm3 "features" at anything greater than 640x480 0x0x, if you're lucky.

/thread

See, that's pretty funny as I don't see a 9700 restricted to 640x480 these days, do you?

Right, but that's because it doesnt have to deal with HDR or softshadows that would cut the fps in half. So for the 6800 series, you would need to turn off the sm3 eye candy to be able to play at higher res.

I see your point, but your speaking for games that haven't even come out yet and there is not telling how well or how poorly they will be coded and if there will be any improvements in the coding for HDR and Softshadows. As you and I both know, everything improves with time.

Actually if i remember correctly the UE3.0 stuff when it comes out the 6600GT can run it but without pretty much all the features in the engine. Its in some interview i read some time ago. So if thats the 6600GT, well the 6800GT is about 2x the speed or about that, so you could have most of the features on maybe all but i doubt that. So if the 6800GT could probably run all the features on barely. Then think about the year after that...

And those games are coming out mid next year, or is Gears of War coming out this year. Well if it is the PC version still gonna take 6-9 months to come to PC... damn Microshaft...

Same principle Dravyn. Game you mentioned is nowhere near out yet, nor optimised, nor completed. After it comes out, and if a 6800GT can't run it decently, then you will have my agreement.

I guess the first real test will be this FEAR game. It's due out in October.

Very true, it isnt a tested engine and its a long way off still, yea hopefully FEAR will show us how crappy our cards are.... or how crappy the coding and optimisation is 😛

Anyway just thought i would pass on that info from the other post, all speculation still.

 

[BFG10K]

Like I said, TAA is no gimmick.

Unfortunately simply repeating a statement doesn't constitute as evidence.

 

[bcoupland]

Off Topic:
Avalon, isn't GamingPhreek(Kevin) your son?

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Like I said, TAA is no gimmick.

Unfortunately simply repeating a statement doesn't constitute as evidence.

Whatever floats your boat there BFG. And, this isn't a court hearing.

 

[Topweasel]

Some forgot the most important aspect of the 7800GTX, if it starts running slow in games you can pick up in a year or 2 another one really cheap 100-150 and get about 75% performance increase while not wasting the money you spent on the card. For the PE to do this you have to have purchased a crossfire board and a master card. If I remember correctly you have to get a simialr master card to the level of the card you purchased when you purchased it. Which for all i know means you have to get the XT PE version of the 520 or what ever the new card is. Which means you have to purchase a $400 or so card which will down grade itself to the 800XT PE level. Sounds far fetched but I believe its already lke that right now I believe you have to purchase the 850XT PE master card to run the 800XT PE in slave mode. Also In the ATI friendly benchmark of Half Life The the 7800GTX comes very close to the 850XT in crossfire mode (SLI) and the 850XT Crossfire( SLI) while close is beat by the 7800GTX in SLI (this makes me think that the SLI for 780GTX is CPU limited even at 1600) In the Doom3 benchy which is Nvidia freindly the 7800GTX beats a 850XT in crossfire (SLI). These benchies look at better card then the 800XT PE (in crossfire (SLI) mode i might add) and is or nearly beaten by 7800GTX by itself. Again the value for the GTX is in my mind is worth a little more then twice as much as a 850XT so the same would hold true if not more in the GTX favor when dealling with hte 800XT PE.

Both are good card can't go wrong with either but there are some platform and performance reasons (no real features reasons in my mind and i am a feature kind of guy) I would say the GTX is the best card card Value wise. I always recommend buying the best you can afford you stay happier longer that way. I paid $500 For Geforce 2 Ultra when it came out, I only traded it a year or so ago in strait swap for a 8500 AIW because I wanted to using TV tuner cand capturing abilities. Probably the best money I spent. Last month I bought a 7800GTX for 490 and am one of the happiest people in the world. I can see myself by next christmas having another 7800GTX in my machine but i don't see myself removing the first one for 3+ years.

 

[Drayvn]

Topweasel you have to remember whenever a new gen comes out from nVidia they will always do their best to sell the last gen because on some of the models they wont make any more. Like whats happening with the 6800s.

So in a year or 2 you cant.

 

[iwearnosox]

Originally posted by: Drayvn
Topweasel you have to remember whenever a new gen comes out from nVidia they will always do their best to sell the last gen because on some of the models they wont make any more. Like whats happening with the 6800s.

So in a year or 2 you cant.

There's a little webpage called ebay, you should visit it someday. I think you can still buy a SLI voodoo rig there if you'd like.

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: Topweasel
Some forgot the most important aspect of the 7800GTX, if it starts running slow in games you can pick up in a year or 2 another one really cheap 100-150 and get about 75% performance increase while not wasting the money you spent on the card. For the PE to do this you have to have purchased a crossfire board and a master card. If I remember correctly you have to get a simialr master card to the level of the card you purchased when you purchased it. Which for all i know means you have to get the XT PE version of the 520 or what ever the new card is. Which means you have to purchase a $400 or so card which will down grade itself to the 800XT PE level. Sounds far fetched but I believe its already lke that right now I believe you have to purchase the 850XT PE master card to run the 800XT PE in slave mode. Also In the ATI friendly benchmark of Half Life The the 7800GTX comes very close to the 850XT in crossfire mode (SLI) and the 850XT Crossfire( SLI) while close is beat by the 7800GTX in SLI (this makes me think that the SLI for 780GTX is CPU limited even at 1600) In the Doom3 benchy which is Nvidia freindly the 7800GTX beats a 850XT in crossfire (SLI). These benchies look at better card then the 800XT PE (in crossfire (SLI) mode i might add) and is or nearly beaten by 7800GTX by itself. Again the value for the GTX is in my mind is worth a little more then twice as much as a 850XT so the same would hold true if not more in the GTX favor when dealling with hte 800XT PE.

Both are good card can't go wrong with either but there are some platform and performance reasons (no real features reasons in my mind and i am a feature kind of guy) I would say the GTX is the best card card Value wise. I always recommend buying the best you can afford you stay happier longer that way. I paid $500 For Geforce 2 Ultra when it came out, I only traded it a year or so ago in strait swap for a 8500 AIW because I wanted to using TV tuner cand capturing abilities. Probably the best money I spent. Last month I bought a 7800GTX for 490 and am one of the happiest people in the world. I can see myself by next christmas having another 7800GTX in my machine but i don't see myself removing the first one for 3+ years.

No one is going to recommend buying another x850 to run in crossfire, because then you'd actually have the speed to use sm3 features, but the cards dont support sm3. Also, the 7800gtx is not the best value simply by the fact that it costs 2x more money, but it's not 2x as fast. Also, no matter how good dual 7800's might look, in 3 years they'll have about as much power as a midrange card you could buy at that time. Hell, the 9800p is not even 3 years old, and a next gen midrage card will probably be faster than 2 of them combined (if you could combine them). My opinion is that it's better to buy a single card and upgrade more often, than to buy 2 cards and wait 3 years to upgrade.

 

[Keysplayr]

Actuallyl Munky, this is a slightly different situation. We are talking about a refurbed card against a brand new 7800GTX. Now, a new x800XTPE at newegg (shown here) runs for 419.00. A brand new X850XTPE at newegg (shown here) runs 368.00.

Now last I checked, a 7800GTX did not ever cost 838.00 and 736.00 respectively.
Your forgetting that this is a rare deal from ATI on refurbished cards.

When you compare new, to new, the price/performance is in line.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
As for Parallax mapping, it can be done with SM2.

As usual, this is irrelevant because it's not done with SM2? I think everyone's a little tired of hearing about what the R420 could do "if the developers would just code for it". :roll:

The nV40 could make toast if Wonder would make tiny slices of bread that fit on the GPU, but they don't, so who cares?

 

[Drayvn]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
As for Parallax mapping, it can be done with SM2.

As usual, this is irrelevant because it's not done with SM2? I think everyone's a little tired of hearing about what the R420 could do "if the developers would just code for it". :roll:

The nV40 could make toast if Wonder would make tiny slices of bread that fit on the GPU, but they don't, so who cares?

Currently Parallax mapping is in SC:CT using SM2 on Radeon cards right now, if youve got the game and have an ATi card which is SM2 compliant try the game out. Looks very good!

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Drayvn

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
As for Parallax mapping, it can be done with SM2.

As usual, this is irrelevant because it's not done with SM2? I think everyone's a little tired of hearing about what the R420 could do "if the developers would just code for it". :roll:

The nV40 could make toast if Wonder would make tiny slices of bread that fit on the GPU, but they don't, so who cares?

Currently Parallax mapping is in SC:CT using SM2 on Radeon cards right now, if youve got the game and have an ATi card which is SM2 compliant try the game out. Looks very good!

I was unaware SM2 cards can do parallax mapping in SC:CT. For example, last month Extreme Tech was still saying it couldn't:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_zdext/is_200507/ai_n14776923

So what's up? Link?

 

[Drayvn]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Drayvn

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
As for Parallax mapping, it can be done with SM2.

As usual, this is irrelevant because it's not done with SM2? I think everyone's a little tired of hearing about what the R420 could do "if the developers would just code for it". :roll:

The nV40 could make toast if Wonder would make tiny slices of bread that fit on the GPU, but they don't, so who cares?

Currently Parallax mapping is in SC:CT using SM2 on Radeon cards right now, if youve got the game and have an ATi card which is SM2 compliant try the game out. Looks very good!

I was unaware SM2 cards can do parallax mapping in SC:CT. For example, last month Extreme Tech was still saying it couldn't:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_zdext/is_200507/ai_n14776923

So what's up? Link?

http://www.simhq.com/_technology/technology_058a.html

Here you go mate. Remember HDR, Tone mapping, Parallax mapping, soft shadows are all DX9.0c requirements, not SM3 requirements.

Displacement mapping i think is an SM3 feature, but i cant remember if thats right or not.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Drayvn

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Drayvn

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
As for Parallax mapping, it can be done with SM2.

As usual, this is irrelevant because it's not done with SM2? I think everyone's a little tired of hearing about what the R420 could do "if the developers would just code for it". :roll:

The nV40 could make toast if Wonder would make tiny slices of bread that fit on the GPU, but they don't, so who cares?

Currently Parallax mapping is in SC:CT using SM2 on Radeon cards right now, if youve got the game and have an ATi card which is SM2 compliant try the game out. Looks very good!

I was unaware SM2 cards can do parallax mapping in SC:CT. For example, last month Extreme Tech was still saying it couldn't:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_zdext/is_200507/ai_n14776923

So what's up? Link?

http://www.simhq.com/_technology/technology_058a.html

Here you go mate. Remember HDR, Tone mapping, Parallax mapping, soft shadows are all DX9.0c requirements, not SM3 requirements.

Displacement mapping i think is an SM3 feature, but i cant remember if thats right or not.

That's why that article is somewhat confusing to me. ATI cards don't support DX9c, patch or not. I know some of the stuff can be worked around with SM2b, but I was under the impression the HDR didn't have as high of IQ, for example.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Keys and BFG-

Am I mistaken, or is one of you talking about transparency AA and the other talking about temporal AA? It seems to me that BFG is lamenting the latter while Keys is saying the former is no gimmick.

 

[Drayvn]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Drayvn

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Drayvn

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
As for Parallax mapping, it can be done with SM2.

As usual, this is irrelevant because it's not done with SM2? I think everyone's a little tired of hearing about what the R420 could do "if the developers would just code for it". :roll:

The nV40 could make toast if Wonder would make tiny slices of bread that fit on the GPU, but they don't, so who cares?

Currently Parallax mapping is in SC:CT using SM2 on Radeon cards right now, if youve got the game and have an ATi card which is SM2 compliant try the game out. Looks very good!

I was unaware SM2 cards can do parallax mapping in SC:CT. For example, last month Extreme Tech was still saying it couldn't:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_zdext/is_200507/ai_n14776923

So what's up? Link?

http://www.simhq.com/_technology/technology_058a.html

Here you go mate. Remember HDR, Tone mapping, Parallax mapping, soft shadows are all DX9.0c requirements, not SM3 requirements.

Displacement mapping i think is an SM3 feature, but i cant remember if thats right or not.

That's why that article is somewhat confusing to me. ATI cards don't support DX9c, patch or not. I know some of the stuff can be worked around with SM2b, but I was under the impression the HDR didn't have as high of IQ, for example.

Yea as said in the other thread, thinkg weve all been through that, so no point in getting it started in this and producing another flame war 🙂

 

[Topweasel]

No one is going to recommend buying another x850 to run in crossfire, because then you'd actually have the speed to use sm3 features, but the cards dont support sm3. Also, the 7800gtx is not the best value simply by the fact that it costs 2x more money, but it's not 2x as fast. Also, no matter how good dual 7800's might look, in 3 years they'll have about as much power as a midrange card you could buy at that time. Hell, the 9800p is not even 3 years old, and a next gen midrage card will probably be faster than 2 of them combined (if you could combine them). My opinion is that it's better to buy a single card and upgrade more often, than to buy 2 cards and wait 3 years to upgrade.

I disagree, Think about i call it getting my moneys worth. In thee years when a single 7800gtx starts look a little long in the tooth you instead of trashing your $500-$600 investment you can enhance it for more speed with another $150 investment. For people who Like to buy great performance when they Upgrade but want to ride out those perchaces instead of trying to find some lacky to buy off your cad every 6 months so you can get the latest and greatest SLI is the perfect option (or Crossfire). But with the 2 SLi you buy just buy the same card, with ATI you have to buy a better version and wach how it steps itself down to the level of the old card. As for performance You really can't look at any Benchmark below 1600 on any current game because 75% are so CPU bottlenecked its almost silly. In a year when games start to make that next step toward realism and are Pushed again by the GPU at lower a res you will wish you buaght the GTX.

But honestly I don't like the Idea of a refurb wether it has a warranty or not, but that is from a person who ran a tech bench at a BB, I saw open Items that went to the Manufacturers and come back dead more times then I saw them actually work.

 

[BFG10K]

Am I mistaken, or is one of you talking about transparency AA and the other talking about temporal AA?

I'm talking about temporal AA; heaven knows what he's talking about.

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Keys and BFG-

Am I mistaken, or is one of you talking about transparency AA and the other talking about temporal AA? It seems to me that BFG is lamenting the latter while Keys is saying the former is no gimmick.

:laugh:

 

[imported_g33k]

OP, I didnt bother reading through so many argumentative posts. I would say buy the card that will play your games today. Trying to future proof is foolish, by the time SM3 becomes mainstream, you will be ready to upgrade your card again. That x800 is a bargain at that price. And since you are on AGP, you cant choose the 7800.

 

[jimipal56]

OK.