Discussion Beyond zen 6

[Makaveli]

Eh, it read like an endorsement. If a person is cautious because X3D might get zapped by a board there are more to avoid than ASRock. Avoid Asus too. Especially since my board hasn't had a BIOS update since Asus put out that press release.

Which board is that?

 

[gdansk]

Which board is that?

B650 ProArt. There is a new BIOS posted recently. But it wasn't posted when they put out the press release. And they haven't said that it solved any issues they may have identified.

But avoiding ASRock isn't the panacea as the number of people manually clamping vsoc should show. X3D still seem to be sensitive to board partners messing up and it isn't just ASRock.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Eh, it read like an endorsement. If a person is cautious because X3D might get zapped by a board there are more to avoid than ASRock. Avoid Asus too. Especially since my board hasn't had a BIOS update since Asus put out that press release.

DIYers should avoid Asus because of infamously bad customer service and support. Not the fear of being one of the few that drew a short straw. I bought a board from them recently, but for $120, if it fails, I'll offer it up for free to anyone that likes repairing them and can re-ball or whatever is required. No way I am even expending the effort I do 💩posting here, on trying to get it serviced from them.Or maybe I will conduct a poll, and see if you guys want me to do the RMA process for science.

As to the reported deaths: AMD and ASRock are doing the RMAs hassle free, so there will be no blow back. As we discussed with raptor; if Intel had reacted the way MS did with the RROD, there would have never been a brouhaha.

Personal anecdote: My ASRock B65Oe PG Riptide and 7800X3D started getting flaky. Even running optimized defaults with JEDEC 4800 did not fix it. Slow boots, no boots, failing to make it to desktop. Fresh windows install did not help. Then it occured to me to check the last time I updated the bios. I do enough systems over the course of a year, hard to keep track. It was still running the version I updated to when building in summer of 2024. Installed the next to latest, as it stated CPU and ram improvements. Worked perfect again after that. Had me thinking I drew the short straw.

On topic: No idea what's beyond Zen 6. Unless the AI gold rush ends, whatever it is, will be expensive and in short supply for our crowd. Retail/DIY is always last in line.

 

[Doug S]

B650 ProArt. There is a new BIOS posted recently. But it wasn't posted when they put out the press release. And they haven't said that it solved any issues they may have identified.

But avoiding ASRock isn't the panacea as the number of people manually clamping vsoc should show. X3D still seem to be sensitive to board partners messing up and it isn't just ASRock.

I don't think Asrock's 600 series boards are where the problems are, it is the 800 series you want to avoid. I have an A620i and I'm limiting my 9600X to 65W so hopefully I don't have to worry about it. But CPUs are not the expensive to replace or difficult to find due to shortages part right now so if something fails on my PC I'm crossing my fingers it is the CPU lol!

 

[gdansk]

I don't think Asrock's 600 series boards are where the problems are, it is the 800 series you want to avoid. I have an A620i and I'm limiting my 9600X to 65W so hopefully I don't have to worry about it. But CPUs are not the expensive to replace or difficult to find due to shortages part right now so if something fails on my PC I'm crossing my fingers it is the CPU lol!

Yeah, that's true. CPU availability seems to be pretty good still. I wonder if that'll change with Zen 6.

 

[Joe NYC]

Stay away from Asrock motherboards.

Make sure the bios is up to date you should be fine.

I'm not worried about it at all on my asus motherboard.


This story is mostly about consoles are we sure that will affect DGPU's?

Considering how Asus is releasing BIOS updates for 9 year old mobos, their AM5 mobos should be fine:

https://twitter.com/x/status/2018640613735063910

 

[eek2121]

DIYers should avoid Asus because of infamously bad customer service and support. Not the fear of being one of the few that drew a short straw. I bought a board from them recently, but for $120, if it fails, I'll offer it up for free to anyone that likes repairing them and can re-ball or whatever is required. No way I am even expending the effort I do 💩posting here, on trying to get it serviced from them.Or maybe I will conduct a poll, and see if you guys want me to do the RMA process for science.

As to the reported deaths: AMD and ASRock are doing the RMAs hassle free, so there will be no blow back. As we discussed with raptor; if Intel had reacted the way MS did with the RROD, there would have never been a brouhaha.

Personal anecdote: My ASRock B65Oe PG Riptide and 7800X3D started getting flaky. Even running optimized defaults with JEDEC 4800 did not fix it. Slow boots, no boots, failing to make it to desktop. Fresh windows install did not help. Then it occured to me to check the last time I updated the bios. I do enough systems over the course of a year, hard to keep track. It was still running the version I updated to when building in summer of 2024. Installed the next to latest, as it stated CPU and ram improvements. Worked perfect again after that. Had me thinking I drew the short straw.

On topic: No idea what's beyond Zen 6. Unless the AI gold rush ends, whatever it is, will be expensive and in short supply for our crowd. Retail/DIY is always last in line.

The BIOS on my ASUS x670e-i was buggy in various ways until 18 months after I purchased it.

I plan to go back to gigabyte for future boards.

 

[Josh128]

The BIOS on my ASUS x670e-i was buggy in various ways until 18 months after I purchased it.

I plan to go back to gigabyte for future boards.

Everyone seems to have had great and terrible experiences with every manufacturer. MSI has been my go to since my original Gigabyte Gaming board, which worked/works great with Zen 1, went berserk with Zen 2 regardless of the BIOS I tried. Been on MSI Tomahawk boards since Zen 2 with zero complaints.

 

[Fjodor2001]

It's the opposite for me as long as Zen7 is 32 core on the desktop.

That would mean a minimum 33% MT gain from Zen6 (assuming 24C SKU DT) even before IPC or clock frequency gains - which is a pretty decent gain for a single generation when you don't have to pay for a new mobo or RAM on top of the CPU.

The nice thing is also that if it’s 32C, it means 16C per CCD, and 12C will be the peasant SKUs. Cores will be cheap.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Cores will be cheap.

this is so funny

 

[Fjodor2001]

this is so funny

Don’t worry, you might be able to pay extra to get your 6C as a retro SKU where they have fused off 6 working cores on the peasant 12C SKU.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Don’t worry, you might be able to pay extra to get your 6C as a retro SKU where they have fused off 6 working cores on the peasant 12C SKU.

Zen7 has an 8c CCD for sub-$600 markets.
You gotta pay for all that A14 and don't worry, you will.

 

[Fjodor2001]

Zen7 has an 8c CCD for sub-$600 markets.

You’re just speculating/hallucinating as usual. 32C will be the top SKU at around $600-700 like previous top SKUs (e.g. 9950X at $649). 12C will be the peasant SKU at around $250-300 (e.g. 9600X at $279).

8C and below will be retro models, if even released. If not released you can perhaps buy the 12C and disable 6 working cores in BIOS to get your precious 6C.

 

[adroc_thurston]

You’re just speculating/hallucinating as usual. 32C will be the top SKU at around $600-700 like previous top SKUs (e.g. 9950X at $649). 12C will be the peasant SKU at around $250-300 (e.g. 9600X at $279).

man you're not gonna like Zen6 huh.
I sincerely hope you're not broke.

8C and below will be retro models, if even released. If not released you can perhaps buy the 12C and disable 6 working cores in BIOS to get your precious 6C.

It has a separate 8c CCD for <$600 markets.
You gotta pay for A14. And you will.

 

[Fjodor2001]

man you're not gonna like Zen6 huh.

It’s 24C so better than Zen5, but yeah a stop gap solution until we get 32C Zen7.

It has a separate 8c CCD for <$600 markets.
You gotta pay for A14. And you will.

Perhaps some 8C limited edition for the retro crowd, where they have fused off working cores on the 16C CCD. But 12C at $250-300 will be better perf/$ if you don’t care about sentimental old-skool editions.

If you really think there would be a regular 8C at $600, then what would you expect the 32C to cost, e.g. 4x $600 = $2400? That’s ridiculous since the top end SKUs have never even been close to that, but always stayed in the $650-800 range.

 

[adroc_thurston]

It’s 24C so better than Zen5

For more money, yes.
I hope you're not poor.

Perhaps some 8C limited edition for the retro crowd, where they have fused off working cores on the 16C CCD. But 12C at $250-300 will be better perf/$ if you don’t care about sentimental old-skool editions.

It's a separate 8c CCD for <$600 DIY DT, some mobile and low CC SP8 EPYC.

If you really think there would be a regular 8C at $600

sure? why not; A14 is not really free and they're probably bloating the core-private area quite considerably there.

then what would you expect the 32C to cost, e.g. 4x $600 = $2400?

Different CCD with different economics, plus you pay for a single cIOD.
If they ever ship a 32c GrimlockDT then it's probably around $1299 or so.

 

[Fjodor2001]

For more money, yes.
I hope you're not poor.

For lower money per core yes. Not poor and nobody spends more than needed.

It's a separate 8c CCD for <$600 DIY DT, some mobile and low CC SP8 EPYC.

Perhaps for mobile but not for DT. DT is based on server CCD and no such 8C EPYC announced, nor does it make sense.

sure? why not; A14 is not really free and they're probably bloating the core-private area quite considerably there.

Because regular consumers will not pay that much for it. They are not bubble boosted AI Datacenter customers with unlimited wallets.

Different CCD with different economics, plus you pay for a single cIOD.
If they ever ship a 32c GrimlockDT then it's probably around $1299 or so.

32C at $1299 would make it around twice as expensive as previous top Zen 1-5 DT SKUs. Does not make sense.

 

[adroc_thurston]

For lower money per core yes

Nope.
Not even Venice is lower money per core.

Perhaps for mobile but not for DT. DT is based on server CCD and no such 8C EPYC announced, nor does it make sense.

You do understand that EPYC has a few # of CCDs?
They gotta pop a 48/64c config cost-effectively with full membw.

Because regular consumers will not pay that much for it. They are not bubble boosted AI Datacenter customers with unlimited wallets.

no one's gonna ask them.
You gotta pay for all that cutting edge wafer content.

32C at $1299 would make it around twice as expensive as previous top Zen DT SKUs.

Thrice as expensive to make so it evens out.

 

[Tangopiper]

You’re just speculating/hallucinating as usual.

Not sure he's the one halucinating, sorry

AMD is playing the margins game now. Don't except any node improvements for free. And don't expect Intel to be giving away Nova Lake for free either - they're going to be facing serious cost pressures with 2 fat 2nm compute tiles to deal with.

And don't expect a core count increase with Zen 7, either. You'll be getting the same as Zen 6, so most likely 8c R5, 12c R7, up to 24c R9. It will just be 8+16 CCDs for tippy top R9, 16c CCD for bottom R9 and R7, 8c CCD for R5 and below. Frankly client doesn't even need 24c but we're getting that thanks to SP8 leftovers.

 

[adroc_thurston]

8c CCD for R5 and below

this is AMD.
8c Ryzen 7 will definitely happen (I mean they're selling KRK2 at R7 tier in mobile rn lmao).

 

[Tangopiper]

this is AMD.
8c Ryzen 7 will definitely happen (I mean they're selling KRK2 at R7 tier in mobile rn lmao).

I honestly wondered about that, but I think from a yields perspective it won't happen. You'd be stuck offering R5 with 6c CCDs which works for Zen 7 8c CCD, but not for Zen 6 12c CCD. It's TSMC, you ain't getting chips that need slicing in half.

I can see it being 8c R5, 10c R7, 12-24c R9 though. That's cheapskate enough to be on brand for AMD without lasering a load of functional CCDs to meet volume on lower end SKUs.

 

[Thunder 57]

this is AMD.
8c Ryzen 7 will definitely happen (I mean they're selling KRK2 at R7 tier in mobile rn lmao).

You know AMD isn't really trying in mobile. What the reason is I don't know. Margins? Problems with ODM's? They've been giveng a token effort for awhile in this market it seems.

 

[adroc_thurston]

You know AMD isn't really trying in mobile

It's a commodity market that is being squeezed all outta margin via memory and wafer price hikes.
Lisa already told you: they're focusing on commercial. Not (you). Corpo thinkpad users. but not (you).

They've been giveng a token effort for awhile in this market it seems.

Ah it's just a byproduct of 2023 roadmap re-chops.
You're getting consistent 8Q schedule MDS-onwards.

 

[inquiss]

It's a commodity market that is being squeezed all outta margin via memory and wafer price hikes.
Lisa already told you: they're focusing on commercial. Not (you). Corpo thinkpad users. but not (you).

Ah it's just a byproduct of 2023 roadmap re-chops.
You're getting consistent 8Q schedule MDS-onwards.

Yeah that can make sense but what was the reason for the rechop? Guessing npu messed everything up?

 

[adroc_thurston]

but what was the reason for the rechop

Client SoC guys were tired (no, seriously. that's the reason).

uessing npu messed everything up?

nope.