Beware the Bear.

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051227/ap_...24cA;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MXN1bHE0BHNlYwN0bWE-

Russia Denies Compromise With Ukraine
Russia on Tuesday denied reports that it was ready to compromise on demands that Ukraine pay four times as much for Russian gas, a dispute that threatens to cut off about a third of the gas that Ukraine relies on for heat and industry.

The denial, made by Russian energy minister Viktor Khristenko, came hours after Ukraine's energy minister claimed that a compromise had been reached in the politically charged dispute. Ukraine's relations with the Kremlin have been stiff since Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko came to power in January on a platform of moving Ukraine into closer integration with the West.

President Vladimir Putin and Yushchenko spoke by telephone Tuesday evening about the brewing crisis, Yushchenko's office said. Ukraine's energy minister is to come to Moscow on Wednesday for talks, the president's office said.

About a third of Ukraine's natural gas comes from Russia and Ukrainian officials say jacking the price up from the current $50 per 1,000 cubic meters could cripple Ukraine's energy-intensive heavy industry and impede the country's efforts to boost its economy. Russia's state-controlled Gazprom gas monopoly argues that Ukraine should pay $220-$230, more in line with world prices and portrays the demand as putting the gas sphere in line with market-economy demands.

In the United States, natural gas futures traded near $11 per 1,000 cubic feet Tuesday on the New York Mercantile Exchange.


Let me get this straight. In the US the price is $11.00 per 1,000 cuibc feet and the Russkies want to chage $220 to $230 per 1,000 cubic feet? Is this a misprint?

 

Colt45

Lifer
Apr 18, 2001
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1000 cubic meters = 35,314.6667 cubic feet... do the math, its still only 60% of the cost in the states.


besides, this is your beloved capitalism at work. whats the problem?
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
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What ever the result; when Russia needs Ukranian grain and hevy industry, they will experience payback.
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
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Originally posted by: Genx87
State controlled industries and state controlled pricing is capitalism?

Well they said they want to push it closer to prices inline with the capitalist market.

I would think if they weren't state controlled the prices would have been higher a LONNNG time ago; but since its state controlled then they sell it lower for political favors, etc...
 

lyssword

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2005
5,630
25
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Hey I use to live in ukraine 7.5 yrs ago. Dam ruskies :D.. I think they need to work something out, because ukraine does supply a lot of natural gas, steel and coal to russians :p Looks like things are getting worse over there with recent election scandals etc :( I hope they pull their stuff together
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
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Originally posted by: magomago
Originally posted by: Genx87
State controlled industries and state controlled pricing is capitalism?

Well they said they want to push it closer to prices inline with the capitalist market.

I would think if they weren't state controlled the prices would have been higher a LONNNG time ago; but since its state controlled then they sell it lower for political favors, etc...

Yes they would have and the Ukraines industrial base would have taken measures to compensate for it LONNNG ago. When will these people learn that price fixing an open market comodity is a recipe for disaster?

The Ukraine industry apparently has been living under the notion fuel would be 40% cheaper than the worlds avg price and it would remain that low forever. If Russia simply ceased to exist tomorrow the Ukraine would be in the same position or worse.

 

fornax

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
6,866
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Originally posted by: lyssword
Hey I use to live in ukraine 7.5 yrs ago. Dam ruskies :D.. I think they need to work something out, because ukraine does supply a lot of natural gas, steel and coal to russians :p Looks like things are getting worse over there with recent election scandals etc :( I hope they pull their stuff together

Are you sure you lived in the Ukraine? Their own sources of natural gas supply only about a third of their needs. Why would they export it to Russia? And Russia exports both steel and coal. They don't really need anything from the Ukraine that they don't have themselves. Some airplanes and arms are still being imported from the Ukraine, but not for long.

The current Ukrainian government has been very unfriendly to Russia, I don't see why the Russians should subsidize them. They should be grateful Russia let them have the Crimean peninsula, which has never belonged to the Ukraine.
 

tommywishbone

Platinum Member
May 11, 2005
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I'll admit curiousity. Remember the old punchline... What the F does that have to do with the price of rice in China? Why should Americans be concerned with the potential price that Ukrainians pay for natural gas, that they purchase or intend to purchase from Russia? I don't think you'll find many Russians being concerned that the State of Florida is adding a .05% tarrif to all California grow citrus products imported to the Sunshine State.

Does America really need to concern itself with Russia-Ukrainian natural gas price negotiations. I'll listen to reason.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
4
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Originally posted by: tommywishbone
I'll admit curiousity. Remember the old punchline... What the F does that have to do with the price of rice in China? Why should Americans be concerned with the potential price that Ukrainians pay for natural gas, that they purchase or intend to purchase from Russia? I don't think you'll find many Russians being concerned that the State of Florida is adding a .05% tarrif to all California grow citrus products imported to the Sunshine State.

Does America really need to concern itself with Russia-Ukrainian natural gas price negotiations. I'll listen to reason.

Because George Bush says democracies don't start wars. And Russia is reverting to a dictatorship.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
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Originally posted by: tommywishbone
I'll admit curiousity. Remember the old punchline... What the F does that have to do with the price of rice in China? Why should Americans be concerned with the potential price that Ukrainians pay for natural gas, that they purchase or intend to purchase from Russia? I don't think you'll find many Russians being concerned that the State of Florida is adding a .05% tarrif to all California grow citrus products imported to the Sunshine State.

Does America really need to concern itself with Russia-Ukrainian natural gas price negotiations. I'll listen to reason.

Just as soon as you show us where in the article the US is mentioned outside of a price comparison.
 

tommywishbone

Platinum Member
May 11, 2005
2,149
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"Because George Bush says democracies don't start wars. And Russia is reverting to a dictatorship."

Valid, correct and noted.
 

tommywishbone

Platinum Member
May 11, 2005
2,149
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"Just as soon as you show us where in the article the US is mentioned outside of a price comparison."


No no, it certainly does not, I just meant in terms of this dynamic being an issue for US citizens (here on the forum).