Better Call Saul

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BeeBoop

Golden Member
Feb 5, 2013
1,677
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0
Is there any actual 4k content? And claiming Amazon and Netflix are "offering" it is rather dubious. You know for a fact it isn't the 4k you want.

What do you mean? Yes there is 4k content on Netflix and Amazon. There's Breaking Bad, Jiro Dreams of Sushi, House of Cards, and soon to be Better Call Saul. This weekend will be the release of Marvel's DareDevil. The content selection isn't huge but the quality of the content is good. I wouldn't watch horrible shows like CW's "Beauty and the Beast" even if it was in 4k. In other words, I like to watch my favorite shows in the best resolution possible.

The argument that the content I am watching is not "true 4k or true 1080p" has no baring on what I am talking about. Content today is only available from two sources, Amazon and Netflix. I personally don't watch cable anymore because I hate commercials and the HD often times looks worse than Netflix. The practicality and reality of the situation is that, 4k on Netflix looks better than 1080p on Netflix. It doesn't matter if it's "true 4k or true 1080p" because that is were most people these days are watching their entertainment. If 4k Netflix looks better than 1080p Netflix, then yes I am watching 4k. If I really love the movie or show, I'll go buy it on Blu-ray to get the slightly better quality.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
This is what bothered me. He gave up the opportunity of a well paid, possibly partner track position with a high profile law firm, where he would have gotten to work on his Sandpiper case, for . . . what?

It didn't quite add up for me.

Is it the writers pointing out the inner scumbag within us all, a la Walter White? After all, White could have walked away at several points with all the money he'd ever need, but chose not to.

Is this Jimmy, so hurt by his brother's demeaning rejection that he conflates that with all legitimate, "straight" success, and seeks solace and "ego redemption" by choosing the scam-artist career that was, after all, a "success" of his own creation . . . thus giving the massive, metaphorical middle finger to Chuck and all he represents?

It might just be that particular brand of success, as it represents what Chuck was initially selling him. He finally discovered that despite him putting in the work to following in Chuck's footsteps, Chuck refused to even acknowledge his accomplishments. Chuck would rather Jimmy have stayed working in the mail room for the rest of his life and actively sabotaged his career, using Hamlin as the "big bad jerk" to do it. Even after Jimmy put in a year worth of putting up with Chuck's idiocy, he still wouldn't sign off on Jimmy doing some leg work beside him.

This final act of defiance has to symbolize his willingness to shed his "dream" of working as Chuck's peer. The name change would make sense in that matter.
 

Exophase

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2012
4,439
9
81
He could have easily disappeared with the money. Nobody knew he had it, and is reasonable to believe the Kettleman's would have claimed innocence through the trial; especially without the money.

As irrational as the Kettlemans were I don't think they would have passed up on the opportunity to get revenge against Jimmy at no additional cost to themselves, especially if it meant lowering their sentence.

They'd have been hard up finding a lawyer to represent them going to court with a non-guilty claim anyway, when even Jimmy wouldn't.

There's also a risk that they would have tried seeking some other retaliation against Jimmy. Especially when they could have hired a thug like Nacho to get the money back if it meant sharing a part of it. I'd have been very nervous about that in such a situation. Not worth the risk.

Perknose said:
Is it the writers pointing out the inner scumbag within us all, a la Walter White? After all, White could have walked away at several points with all the money he'd ever need, but chose not to.

That's true, but at least with Walt we could see a more gradual descent. And it was always obvious that his bitterness and pettiness was deep seated and fundamental to who he was, while Jimmy seemed to legitimately overcome his identity as a scammer. Had Walt ever walked away he would have still been the loser high school chemistry teacher (or disgraced ex-teacher) who was facing imminent death without ever making a name for himself. What money he was known to have brought on was based on a superficial lie. As Heisenberg he was a criminal but at least he was somebody, feared and even respected. Although he did eventually walk away from that, maybe to protect his family, but I think the real reason is because making meth had become mundane and was no longer this constant source of danger that made him feel alive. He always cared about how this impacted his family, but until that point he would have seen his meth dealings as irrelevant, both with his son who had no idea and his wife who was already a lost cause.

In Jimmy's case, it at least seems like he would have been more respected and valued had he stayed on the legitimate path. He's throwing away what relationships he has.

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, as the ending showed he simply didn't want to work with this major law firm. But it also came right after he went on about how much he resented not stealing a bunch of money. I wish the angle was more along the lines of him wanting to lift himself up by the bootstraps and do things on his own terms, maybe seeing the big firms as corrupt and inefficient. There was a lot of potential for a gray area or rationalization even as Saul, where he could say he was supporting people who were discarded by society and whom the big names didn't give a crap about. He could reflect on how lawyers like Chuck talk a lot about integrity and the sanctity of the law but are actually dishonest and manipulative at their core and will give people a raw deal because they don't size up right.

Instead it looks like he's just addicted to being a criminal for the sake of being a criminal and the rush of cheating people.
 
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Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,873
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In Jimmy's case, it at least seems like he would have been more respected and valued had he stayed on the legitimate path. He's throwing away what relationships he has.

[...]

Instead it looks like he's just addicted to being a criminal for the sake of being a criminal and the rush of cheating people.

Not so much addicted as, imho, hurt and then retreating into what he knows, his safe zone.

Have any of you ever known someone like Jimmy . . . not a particularly bad guy, but with jive habits, jive ways of coping? Sometimes, even when given a clear path to above board respectability, guys like this panic and retreat back into what they know.

These are not entirely rational decisions, but I've seen them happen, just not on the "cable TV drama" level of BCS.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
As irrational as the Kettlemans were I don't think they would have passed up on the opportunity to get revenge against Jimmy at no additional cost to themselves, especially if it meant lowering their sentence.

They'd have been hard up finding a lawyer to represent them going to court with a non-guilty claim anyway, when even Jimmy wouldn't.

There's also a risk that they would have tried seeking some other retaliation against Jimmy. Especially when they could have hired a thug like Nacho to get the money back if it meant sharing a part of it. I'd have been very nervous about that in such a situation. Not worth the risk.
They'd have no idea Jimmy even had the money. They didn't even know it was missing until told about it. They no longer had the ability to make a deal, so they were going to have to go with a not guilty plea. If they told their lawyer "well, we stole it, but someone stole it from us", there might be enough to give reasonable doubt that whoever robbed them could have been the one who stole it from the county. Why would they openly admit they stole and and then finger a guy who has no connection other than being a lawyer. The only thing they had on Jimmy was his consulting fee of $20,000. That would give them cause to incriminate themselves even further "they paid off the guy who figured out we ran off into the woods with the money".
 

Exophase

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2012
4,439
9
81
They'd have no idea Jimmy even had the money. They didn't even know it was missing until told about it.

I'm pretty sure they'd notice it was missing eventually. And that they'd put two and two together and realize that Jimmy was involved in stealing it because they were given as bait a bundle of money that came from the original stash. That they gave to Jimmy.

They no longer had the ability to make a deal, so they were going to have to go with a not guilty plea.

They could no longer get the deal they were given, but I think admitting they took the money and it was then stolen from them would have gotten them a lighter sentence than going to a trial that they'd definitely lose.

If they told their lawyer "well, we stole it, but someone stole it from us", there might be enough to give reasonable doubt that whoever robbed them could have been the one who stole it from the county.

That never would have stuck, the guy didn't cover his tracks at all.. he was literally writing checks to himself from the city's funds.. how could there possibly be reasonable doubt that someone else stole the money?

Why would they openly admit they stole and and then finger a guy who has no connection other than being a lawyer.

They'd admit they stole it because that'd go better for them than holding on to their innocence when it was obvious to everyone that they weren't innocent and they'd easily lose in court. They were holding on to this delusion that an amazing lawyer could somehow win their case but without such a lawyer willing to represent them (they may have found someone had they still had any means to pay a large fee, but with the money gone they wouldn't) they were liable to eventually realize they had no choice. Like they did after the money was returned.

They'd finger Jimmy because a) if he were found and the money was confiscated it'd help their case and b) they'd want to throw him under the bus as revenge.

The only thing they had on Jimmy was his consulting fee of $20,000. That would give them cause to incriminate themselves even further "they paid off the guy who figured out we ran off into the woods with the money".

Remember how they said that they'd pin this on Jimmy anyway if it did go to court? The only reason they didn't is because Jimmy said he'd incriminate Mrs. Kettleman who up to this point was going to get away with not being involved, and that only became a problem because her husband pleaded with her to not let their children go without a parent.

Had Jimmy kept the money I doubt he'd still be willing to play that bluff to them (because he wouldn't want to interact with them at all), furthermore it completely changes the dynamics, where Jimmy goes from being in a bad position (having taken $30k of the money as a bribe) vs their much worse position, to going to an even worse position (having stolen all the money for himself)
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
126
My impression was that Jimmy was confident that he could win the Kettleman case and only gave it up for Kim's sake. Another missed opportunity to prove himself... for someone else's benefit.
 

Exophase

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2012
4,439
9
81
My impression was that Jimmy was confident that he could win the Kettleman case and only gave it up for Kim's sake. Another missed opportunity to prove himself.

Jimmy isn't stupid, and he's had more than his fair share of lost cases as a public defender. I think he knows when a case is hopeless.

Back when he still wanted to defend them I imagine he was hoping he too could negotiate a good plea bargain and try to reduce the damage. After he learned they turned down the exceptionally lenient deal Kim got he realized they were crazy (he used those exact words to describe them) and hopeless. There's no point taking a case to court that couldn't possibly win. Maybe back when he had NOTHING going on he'd do it just for whatever fee they could manage to pay him (with the money confiscated; eventually their home would have been searched.. also, this is assuming they'd agree to hire him under contract where they had to pay if they lost) but now he had cases and a reputation to think of.

Them trying to blackmail him into defending them didn't exactly help either.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
126
Jimmy isn't stupid, and he's had more than his fair share of lost cases as a public defender. I think he knows when a case is hopeless.

Back when he still wanted to defend them I imagine he was hoping he too could negotiate a good plea bargain and try to reduce the damage. After he learned they turned down the exceptionally lenient deal Kim got he realized they were crazy (he used those exact words to describe them) and hopeless. There's no point taking a case to court that couldn't possibly win. Maybe back when he had NOTHING going on he'd do it just for whatever fee they could manage to pay him (with the money confiscated; eventually their home would have been searched.. also, this is assuming they'd agree to hire him under contract where they had to pay if they lost) but now he had cases and a reputation to think of.

Them trying to blackmail him into defending them didn't exactly help either.
He was on a hot streak after regaining his mojo when he negotiated with Tuco to save all three of them ("I'm the best lawyer ever"). Re-watching it, I'm certain the writers wanted it to seem like he had something up his sleeve. He keeps out-playing HMM but always gives up for someone else's sake. He probably would have done better than them in negotiations too.
 

Exophase

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2012
4,439
9
81
I dunno, I don't think Jimmy exuded over-confidence when he was talking to the Kettlemans trying to get them to hire him. He seemed desperate and sad, nearly begging them to give him a shot. Maybe he had a momentary adrenaline high getting away from Tuco, but then he drunk himself into a stupor and was pretty visibly mortified by the experience. Then he got Nacho locked up and was facing some serious threats, while also being made to look like a fool by the police. Not exactly at the top of his game anymore.

He managed to get the better of HHM and pulled off a stunt, but it was almost immediately exposed to Chuck whom he had to plead understanding from. The net result of his wit was he got calls from a few clients who ended up being either totally pointless (the separationist nut) or incredibly small time. He managed to secure some more consistent work in elder law (still incredibly small time) but this wouldn't have done anything to bolster his confidence as a defense attorney because his function here was little more than clerical.

It's only once he got on to Sandpiper that he would have felt like he was going anywhere, and this was after the Kettleman incident.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
126
I dunno, I don't think Jimmy exuded over-confidence when he was talking to the Kettlemans trying to get them to hire him. He seemed desperate and sad, nearly begging them to give him a shot. Maybe he had a momentary adrenaline high getting away from Tuco, but then he drunk himself into a stupor and was pretty visibly mortified by the experience. Then he got Nacho locked up and was facing some serious threats, while also being made to look like a fool by the police. Not exactly at the top of his game anymore.

He managed to get the better of HHM and pulled off a stunt, but it was almost immediately exposed to Chuck whom he had to plead understanding from. The net result of his wit was he got calls from a few clients who ended up being either totally pointless (the separationist nut) or incredibly small time. He managed to secure some more consistent work in elder law (still incredibly small time) but this wouldn't have done anything to bolster his confidence as a defense attorney because his function here was little more than clerical.

It's only once he got on to Sandpiper that he would have felt like he was going anywhere, and this was after the Kettleman incident.
Re-watch his confrontation with Nacho when he summons his confidence and turns the conversation around. They showed that same talent in all the deals he was winning with PD work.

He also felt like he was going somewhere with the Kettlemans until he gave that up for Kim.
 

GasX

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
29,033
6
81
let's cease the over analysis.

Jimmy realizes he will never have his brother's respect from pursuing a mainstream law career. He also realizes he likes being slipping Jimmy. He decides to say good bye to the big law firm opportunity and embrace his scumbag side. Saul is born.
 

Carson Dyle

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2012
8,173
524
126
Pretty much how I see it, too. It's not complicated.

Jimmy was never really that altruistic guy that he thought would make his brother proud. He did it for the better part of ten years out of respect and his feeling of obligation toward his brother. Maybe at one point he even thought that it was how to get ahead. In the end, though, he realized that it was all for nothing. His brother still thinks he's bum, he's still broke, and he's tired of playing the game.

There was never a moment or incident that caused him to "break" or anything like it. He's just back to acknowledging who he has always been.
 

GrumpyMan

Diamond Member
May 14, 2001
5,780
266
136
Yup in the last scene Saul is born or rather, accepts who he is and will have the law work for him on legit cases in the courts that he will run in the future for the scumbags he will defend and help curtail the law, you know, like Congressmen and Senators do.
 

Kev

Lifer
Dec 17, 2001
16,367
4
81
let's cease the over analysis.

Jimmy realizes he will never have his brother's respect from pursuing a mainstream law career. He also realizes he likes being slipping Jimmy. He decides to say good bye to the big law firm opportunity and embrace his scumbag side. Saul is born.

This
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,873
10,668
147
let's cease the over analysis.

Jimmy realizes he will never have his brother's respect from pursuing a mainstream law career. He also realizes he likes being slipping Jimmy. He decides to say good bye to the big law firm opportunity and embrace his scumbag side. Saul is born.

^^^ This! :colbert:

What do you guys think this is, anyway, a thread for passionate discussion amongst intense fans of BB and BCS?

Peasants!

Heed the illustrious electronic culture guru GasX, for he has determined the exact amount of permissible analysis. Rumor (and a blurry vertical video) has it he was seen descending a nearby mountaintop carrying two stone tablets.

We breathlessly await further pronuncamentios from the great man. :p
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
K3yaOVu.jpg

That's awesome, I didn't remember that line. Love the reference though. :)
 

GasX

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
29,033
6
81
^^^ This! :colbert:

What do you guys think this is, anyway, a thread for passionate discussion amongst intense fans of BB and BCS?

Peasants!

Heed the illustrious electronic culture guru GasX, for he has determined the exact amount of permissible analysis. Rumor (and a blurry vertical video) has it he was seen descending a nearby mountaintop carrying two stone tablets.

We breathlessly await further pronuncamentios from the great man. :p
chapeau to you, sir