Beta Project - 12 minute of Dystopian NYC

[Indus]

Oh god. We got crime blotter MAGA Indus trying to prove to us that NYC is a dystopian hellhole just like MAGA says.

Don't leave your house Indus! Or better yet, move the hell away. We need housing units in the city for people who actually live in reality.

You have tons of housing units but people can't afford them unless they pay up!

 

[Brainonska511]

You have tons of housing units but people can't afford them unless they pay up!

I actually have a whole floor I can rent out but I don't because I don't want to deal with someone who doesn't pay the rent and just freeloads.

They are expensive because supply is tight.

Allow people to build more (like hundreds of thousands more units) to loosen the supply and watch prices stabilize or fall for the "used" housing. We know this approach, because rents and purchase prices have fallen in places where supply has increased a lot (see Minneapolis and Austin).

I don't understand why people think supply/demand doesn't apply to housing. They intuitively understand it when it comes to other goods and services (high new car prices during COVID; high labor costs for construction when contractors are in high demand; new console releases and eBay....)

 

[Indus]

They are expensive because supply is tight.

Allow people to build more (like hundreds of thousands more units) to loosen the supply and watch prices stabilize or fall for the "used" housing. We know this approach, because rents and purchase prices have fallen in places where supply has increased a lot (see Minneapolis and Austin).

480,000 people moved OUT from NYC last year.. so where's that empty space??

Even if there were 10 people living in each apartment (actually impossible).. that's 48,000 empty apartments.

NYC is not Minneapolis & Austin.. there's no place to create more housing unless you go taller!

 

[MrSquished]

Yes. Build up. Simple.

 

[Brainonska511]

480,000 people moved OUT from NYC last year.. so where's that empty space??

Even if there were 10 people living in each apartment (actually impossible).. that's 48,000 empty apartments.

NYC is not Minneapolis & Austin.. there's no place to create more housing unless you go taller!

48000 empty apartments sounds like a lot, until you realize the city population is around 8.3 million people, and has had tight supply for decades.

Your scenario also doesn't cover the many people living with roommates or in overcrowded situations that would move to their own places if they were available.

 

[Indus]

It's like watching a monkey fling shit.

no it's common sense.

You're not wrong that there aren't many criminals but the same ones commit them again and again.. and when you say "the usual suspects" you're suddenly being racist.

It is what it is.. you want NYC to be a safe place, I want NYC to be a safe place.. these criminals belong behind bars permanently.

NYC sees ‘staggering’ 146.5% spike in felony assaults by repeat offenders as top cops blame ‘broken system’

A total of 29,417 felony assaults were reported within the five boroughs between January and December of 2024 – up 5 percent from the 28,003 tallied by the department in 2023.

nypost.com

But sadly this is you:



Didn't you just learn from an election not 3 months ago.. the ground is shifting and leftys are going MAGA because they're pissed off at crime going unpunished?

 

[K1052]

480,000 people moved OUT from NYC last year.. so where's that empty space??

Even if there were 10 people living in each apartment (actually impossible).. that's 48,000 empty apartments.

NYC is not Minneapolis & Austin.. there's no place to create more housing unless you go taller!

Decline in average household size. A vacancy rate of functionally zero does not lie.

Yes, difficult to believe that in NYC you should build UP.

 

[Indus]

Decline in average household size. A vacancy rate of functionally zero does not lie.

Yes, difficult to believe that in NYC you should build UP.

So then there's 480,000 empty apartments somewhere but I have a feeling.. they're only accessible to those with $3500+ cash a month.

 

[K1052]

So then there's 480,000 empty apartments somewhere but I have a feeling.. they're only accessible to those with $3500+ cash a month.

oof

 

[Indus]

oof

developers/ owners.. they all want money for rent.

Hell a friend of mine was renting some office space for $3600 a month.. but the landlord wanted $10,000 a month so he moved out just this month. He now works from his basement but he's managed to keep hold of his old clients because he didn't raise prices.

Sadly it doesn't bode well for him unless he goes online and has new customers as old customers always age out or move after a time.

 

[K1052]

developers/ owners.. they all want money for rent.

Yes, this is how basically everything in the city was built since the Dutch first stet foot there.

Hell a friend of mine was renting some office space for $3600 a month.. but the landlord wanted $10,000 a month so he moved out just this month. He now works from his basement but he's managed to keep hold of his old clients because he didn't raise prices.

Sadly it doesn't bode well for him unless he goes online and has new customers as old customers always age out or move after a time.

Without knowing the specific circumstances this is a hard case to judge. Anyway if you want rents to go down you BUILD MORE STUFF.

 

[MrSquished]

Without knowing the specific circumstances this is a hard case to judge. Anyway if you want rents to go down you BUILD MORE STUFF.

Or you could simply ban above middle class whites from moving in. They are the ones that can pay the higher rent prices. Without them, rents would probably go down. SHUT DOWN THE BORDER OF NYC TO WHITE FOLKS!

 

[Zorba]

https://pix11.com/news/local-news/manhattan/woman-allegedly-punches-girl-in-the-face-in-nyc-subway-station-police/

How many people will be injured by a car in NYC today?

 

[Indus]

How many people will be injured by a car in NYC today?

I'd say 15 but hopefully no one is injured because of what happens after (getting punched or shot when exchanging insurance info)

Sadly it's not a 1 time thing..

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/01/us/new-york-sikh-driver-attack-hate-crime-charges/index.html

Shortly before noon on October 19, Singh’s car collided with Augustin’s while the two were driving on the Van Wyck Expressway in Queens, prosecutors said in the news release.

After both drivers pulled over, a witness saw Augustin get out of his car and walk over to Singh, who was still sitting in his vehicle, according to the release.

During a verbal argument that followed, Augustin became angry with Singh and referred to him several times as “turban man,” prosecutors said, citing the witness. Augustin told Singh he was not going to allow him to go home, and that he did not want Singh to call police, according to prosecutors.

At some point, Augustin reached into Singh’s car and grabbed his cell phone, and Singh got out of his car and followed Augustin, the release reads. The pair appeared to argue before Singh got his phone back and began to go back to his car, prosecutors said, citing witness testimony and surveillance footage.

As Singh was walking away, Augustin punched him three times, knocking his turban off and causing Singh to fall and sustain the brain injury, the release reads. Singh died the following day.

One day after the attack, a police officer found Augustin sitting in his car in Queens’ Jamaica neighborhood, prosecutors said, noting the car had scratches and a small dent on the rear driver’s side.

Augustin was then taken into custody after he couldn’t show police a valid driver’s license and DMV records showed his license was suspended, according to the release.

 

[Zorba]

They are expensive because supply is tight.

Allow people to build more (like hundreds of thousands more units) to loosen the supply and watch prices stabilize or fall for the "used" housing. We know this approach, because rents and purchase prices have fallen in places where supply has increased a lot (see Minneapolis and Austin).

I don't understand why people think supply/demand doesn't apply to housing. They intuitively understand it when it comes to other goods and services (high new car prices during COVID; high labor costs for construction when contractors are in high demand; new console releases and eBay....)

I agree in general, especially in very high demand places.

However, prices have shot through the roof where there are almost no restrictions on building and that don't have massively growing populations. New home prices in my city have more than doubled per square foot since 2019, even though there are a ton of available lots. I believe appartment are running more than 15% empty, yet their rates stay elevated.

I'm thinking like in many other industries there has been way too much consolidation.

 

[K1052]

I agree in general, especially in very high demand places.

However, prices have shot through the roof where there are almost no restrictions on building and that don't have massively growing populations. New home prices in my city have more than doubled per square foot since 2019, even though there are a ton of available lots. I believe appartment are running more than 15% empty, yet their rates stay elevated.

I'm thinking like in many other industries there has been way too much consolidation.

Lack of labor for SFH construction has been a problem nearly everywhere. One that is poised to get much worse in the near future if you know who gets his way.

 

[Zorba]

Lack of labor for SFH construction has been a problem nearly everywhere. One that is poised to get much worse in the near future if you know who gets his way.

Yeah, if deportation happens SFH construction is going to basically end.

I would look to see a real in-depth analysis of what's driving housing prices in different parts of the country. Obviously in NYC, LA, and Seattle there builders that want to build and need to build. But so many other places, I think there are other things besides zoning driving up the cost, like landlord consolidation and cartelling.

Although making it impossible to build middle houses also shuts the door on many new landlords entering the space.

 

[K1052]

Yeah, if deportation happens SFH construction is going to basically end.

I would look to see a real in-depth analysis of what's driving housing prices in different parts of the country. Obviously in NYC, LA, and Seattle there builders that want to build and need to build. But so many other places, I think there are other things besides zoning driving up the cost, like landlord consolidation and cartelling.

Although making it impossible to build middle houses also shuts the door on many new landlords entering the space.

Code also. Especially elevators (sizes) and exit stair requirements. This also delivers a terrible product in terms of floor plans for people to live in.

 

[Brainonska511]

Code also. Especially elevators (sizes) and exit stair requirements. This also delivers a terrible product in terms of floor plans for people to live in.

It's death by 1000 cuts.

Minimum lot sizes, parking requirements, set backs, maximum heights, FAR requirements, maximum number of units/lot, stair requirements for MFH, arbitrary municipal fees on New construction, etc...

 

[Indus]

Or you could simply ban above middle class whites from moving in. They are the ones that can pay the higher rent prices. Without them, rents would probably go down. SHUT DOWN THE BORDER OF NYC TO WHITE FOLKS!

It's like watching a monkey fling shit.

You're seriously close to lashing out at innocent people just because you're so committed to progressivism. Like dangerous levels of commitment there that backfires.

I think you might need a week off from discussing politics for your own health dude or just turn off the phone social feed.. go hiking and relax.

Well that's what I do but if hiking isn't your thinking.. do whatever you do to space out and chill for a bit!

 

[K1052]

It's death by 1000 cuts.

Minimum lot sizes, parking requirements, set backs, maximum heights, FAR requirements, maximum number of units/lot, stair requirements for MFH, arbitrary municipal fees on New construction, etc...

Oh yeah for sure. Also fuck owner occupancy requirements for ADUs.

 

[Brainonska511]

I agree in general, especially in very high demand places.

However, prices have shot through the roof where there are almost no restrictions on building and that don't have massively growing populations. New home prices in my city have more than doubled per square foot since 2019, even though there are a ton of available lots. I believe appartment are running more than 15% empty, yet their rates stay elevated.

I'm thinking like in many other industries there has been way too much consolidation.

Consolidation is an issue, but there is always local competition in housing - I doubt there are many markets that have only a few players.

As for vacancies: those units can't stay empty forever. Landlords can't write off lack of rent for empty units.

One note for new construction though: there is usually a period of time that they aim to fill it over - they generally don't want 100% in the first month. It's usually target to be filled in stages, hitting some steady-state vacancy rates of 5% by the end of the 2nd year, or something like that if I recall a thread that described the process.

 

[K1052]

One note for new construction though: there is usually a period of time that they aim to fill it over - they generally don't want 100% in the first month. It's usually target to be filled in stages, hitting some steady-state vacancy rates of 5% by the end of the 2nd year, or something like that if I recall a thread that described the process.

You don't want all the leases turning over at basically the same time.

 

[Zorba]

It's death by 1000 cuts.

Minimum lot sizes, parking requirements, set backs, maximum heights, FAR requirements, maximum number of units/lot, stair requirements for MFH, arbitrary municipal fees on New construction, etc...

All that, but then we allow housing stock to be turned into hotels.

One you forgot about for ultra low income housing, bathroom and kitchen requirements. You can't really build boarding houses or dorms any more.

 

[MrSquished]

You're seriously close to lashing out at innocent people just because you're so committed to progressivism. Like dangerous levels of commitment there that backfires.

I think you might need a week off from discussing politics for your own health dude or just turn off the phone social feed.. go hiking and relax.

Well that's what I do but if hiking isn't your thinking.. do whatever you do to space out and chill for a bit!

That was called satire. Over here of the onion? Do you think their posts are real?