BEST way to copy a DVD

[joecool]

per summary, know-it-alls who are just going to tell me to search the forums, or send me to another site, please go away. sorry, but i had a bad experience the last time i asked this question ...

ok, now to the good stuff. i have one of those spiffy portable media players and want to convert my dvds to mpegs so i can watch 'em on the media player. in this case the dvd's are of tv shows, so it'd be really cool if i could find an app that could take the chapters on the dvd and turn each chapter into a single mpeg - ie, not one huge mpeg for the whole dvd. it'd also be nice if the app was somewhat programmable and i could specify the output format (mpeg 2 vs 4, or maybe avi instead), and the capture resolution (screen resolution, not bps), etc.

after much research and checking out doom9.org (not bad but real information is buried and hard to find) and videohelp.com (actually much better than doom9 in my opinion), i have come up with a two step process that works, but it's not ideal. i'm hoping someone here will have come up with a better way. here's what i'm doing now:

1) rip the dvd to my hard drive with a program like dvdshrink or dvddecrypter. this is necessary because the app in the next step needs a non-protected source to convert from.

2) using nero recode, convert the ripped version to mpeg4 files. this actually works pretty well as i can give it the chapters that have the episodes and it will automatically create seperate files from each chapter.

i have two basic problems with this process; if you know a better way that will address my two concerns i'd love to hear from you:

1) the ripping process seems to introduce some errors into the ripped copy - i get some skipping and artifacts. basically, i'd like to go from source (dvd disc) straight to converted file, to try to avoid introducing intermediate steps than can introduce errors in the files. also, the ripping process adds quite a bit of time to the conversion.

2) while nero recode works well, it only converts to mpeg4 and doesn't have much programmability. i'd prefer an app that gave me more control over the quality and type of the conversion. i thought mpeg4 was supposed to be great quality but the final image is not as crisp as the original.

any input from others who have solved these problems is much appreciated!

 

[episodic]

1) the ripping process seems to introduce some errors into the ripped copy - i get some skipping and artifacts. basically, i'd like to go from source (dvd disc) straight to converted file, to try to avoid introducing intermediate steps than can introduce errors in the files. also, the ripping process adds quite a bit of time to the conversion.


If this is the case, I'd look at your hardware. What drive are you using to rip? Have you tried another dvd drive?

Really, I've got a Toshiba DVD ROM and all my rips are perfect.

I'll let someone else help you with the rest.

 

[DaveSimmons]

1) the ripping process seems to introduce some errors into the ripped copy - i get some skipping and artifacts. basically, i'd like to go from source (dvd disc) straight to converted file, to try to avoid introducing intermediate steps than can introduce errors in the files. also, the ripping process adds quite a bit of time to the conversion.

2) while nero recode works well, it only converts to mpeg4 and doesn't have much programmability. i'd prefer an app that gave me more control over the quality and type of the conversion. i thought mpeg4 was supposed to be great quality but the final image is not as crisp as the original.

Since these 2 haven't been answered a hundred times already this year:

1) are you sure this isn't just caused by using the mpeg4 format? Decoding mpeg4 requires a lot more CPU power than mpeg2. On PCs a 400-500 MHz CPU decodes mpeg2 but 700-900 MHz is needed for some mpeg4 content. Your player might have issues decoding high-resolution mpeg4.

2) mpeg4 offers much higher compression than mpeg2 but at the cost of some image quality. There isn't anything else better than mpeg4 (and its divx/xvid variants) for high quality, high compression video.

Also, if you're using dvdshrink, you should disable its compression (force it to use 100%) and give Nero the best starting picture to work with.

I haven't used Recode myself, but if it offers options to lower the screen resolution to half-screen or quarter-screen, it might fix your playback glitches by creating mpeg4 content that is easier to decode.

 

[Todd33]

DVD shrink to the HD ("Video TS" folder) and Nero to burn DVD. It's two steps, easy as cake. You will not notice the compression, even if it's 60% if you use the deep analysis to do a frame by frame analysis to figure out where to put the compression.

 

[joecool]

thanks, guys, but you're not actually answering the question. i need mpeg2 as the output, not something i can burn to another dvd. i have to use media player to sync my portable device and it turns out it won't let me add mpeg4 files to my library, even tho it can play them. wierd.

anybody else?

btw, i tried dvdx and that has issues too - it takes a 22.5 minute show and turns it into a 19 minute show - choppy and the audio is garbled. wtf? it also only recognizes one of the 6 episodes on the dvd.

why is this such a hassle?!!!

 

[bamacre]

I know of an app that is absolutely perfect for you, but it only outputs in mpeg4. However, you can convert the mpeg4 files to mpeg2 I imagine.

The app is called Fair Use. It is by far, hands down, the easiest-to-use DVD ripper out there. It also embraces TV episode DVD's, it will bring up a list of all the different chapters (episodes) and allow you to convert all based on one specification. And like I said it is easy as hell to use. It's as simple as popping in the DVD, clicking AUTO a couple times, clicking NEXT a couple of times, and then done. It's also pretty fast (in regards to encoding) on a good machine.

Fair Use was free at one time, now the guy asks for a donation. Let me tell you, it is worth every penny.

Edit: And you can find it HERE.

 

[AnyMal]

Originally posted by: Todd33
DVD shrink to the HD ("Video TS" folder) and Nero to burn DVD. It's two steps, easy as cake. You will not notice the compression, even if it's 60% if you use the deep analysis to do a frame by frame analysis to figure out where to put the compression.

Agree. Generally I like to keep compression at 70% or above but that's because I am somewhat anal and if the size permits, I'll go with the highest setting. Then again, I've had some compressed at high 50%'s and it looked just fine on a regular analog TV..

If you get artifacts and dropped frames, you may also want to check the disk itself to see if it needs good cleaning.

 

[joecool]

Originally posted by: bamacre
I know of an app that is absolutely perfect for you, but it only outputs in mpeg4. However, you can convert the mpeg4 files to mpeg2 I imagine.

The app is called Fair Use. It is by far, hands down, the easiest-to-use DVD ripper out there. It also embraces TV episode DVD's, it will bring up a list of all the different chapters (episodes) and allow you to convert all based on one specification. And like I said it is easy as hell to use. It's as simple as popping in the DVD, clicking AUTO a couple times, clicking NEXT a couple of times, and then done. It's also pretty fast (in regards to encoding) on a good machine.

Fair Use was free at one time, now the guy asks for a donation. Let me tell you, it is worth every penny.

Edit: And you can find it HERE.

thanks, i'll check it out, however, i hate to go through a two-stage conversion, since each stage is not a perfect digital copy - kind of like copying a video tape then making a copy of the copy - each version will loose some visual quality.

btw, i've now tried to apps that can't seem to sync the audio and video tracks - either the audio is good but the video is jerky (frozen periodically for a few frames to get the audio in sync), or the video is smooth but the audio is choppy (sound dropped to sync with the video). i don't get this since the video and audio are the same length on the source - why do these apps think the video is shorter (higher fps) than it really is?

 

[bamacre]

Maybe you should have considered a portable media player that plays mpeg4 files. But I would definitely check out Fair Use and try converting the outputted .avi to an mpeg2 file.

 

[joecool]

Originally posted by: bamacre
Maybe you should have considered a portable media player that plays mpeg4 files. But I would definitely check out Fair Use and try converting the outputted .avi to an mpeg2 file.

thanks, but i'm not sure such a beast exists. the archos is looking sweet but it needs a very special file and probably any file will need massaging to work on archos. ironically their tools require mpeg1/2 as the input!

if i can get to mpeg 1/2 then i can have a format that will work everywhere - wmp, portable devices, etc.

btw, i'd really appreciate it if someone could explain the video rate stuff to me. i've now worked with two apps that seem to think the source video is shorter than it is - the output they generate is actually shorter than the source. wtf? i'm in the us so my source is ntsc, 29.xxx fps, right? man, this video stuff is a real hassle. i've wasted a day and a half on it and still don't understand it and am no closer to a solution. humbug!

 

[heartsurgeon]

use anyDVD to "unlock" the DVD..
you can then use windows explorer to copy the files to your hard drive.

from there you can copy them anywhere you want, bit perfect

 

[timswim78]

It has been a while since I did this, but I used to rip DVD's and split them into MPEG's (so that I could later make VCD's from them). After ripping the DVD with DVD Decryptor, I would use FlaskMPEG to encode the movie. If I remember correctly, you could chop the movie up into segments.

Also, I remember using TMPGenc to do the same thing. Here is a guide to doing it for PocketPC's. You should be able to easily adapt it to your needs: http://www.pocketmovies.net/dvdrip.php

This guide is even better, as it has a section for splitting up encoded files. http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/sbc_main.htm

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
use anyDVD to "unlock" the DVD..
you can then use windows explorer to copy the files to your hard drive.

from there you can copy them anywhere you want, bit perfect

Really? Wow, where can I find this "anyDVD" program? Could I use this to make an exact copy of a DVD, by burning all the files onto a DVD+R?

 

[joecool]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
use anyDVD to "unlock" the DVD..
you can then use windows explorer to copy the files to your hard drive.

from there you can copy them anywhere you want, bit perfect

doesn't work at all for me, the files can't be played by anything but a dvd player. i need to get the files into mpeg format so i can convert them (again!) to the correct format for my portable media player.

bottom line, i have to say, this process is a ridiculous mess. why is it so complicated and why are there so many incompatible formats? i know the format issue is always there with pc's, as there are competing companies who want to push their own products with proprietary formats, but this is way beyond any other problem i've ever seen. and very few folks seem to really understand it. i'm very close to throwing in the towel and to heck with the whole deal. it's starting to look to me like pmps are very much NOT ready for prime time!

 

[AnyMal]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
use anyDVD to "unlock" the DVD..
you can then use windows explorer to copy the files to your hard drive.

from there you can copy them anywhere you want, bit perfect

Really? Wow, where can I find this "anyDVD" program? Could I use this to make an exact copy of a DVD, by burning all the files onto a DVD+R?

Remember that retail DVD's are burned onto dual layer disks, so if you want a prefect one-for-one copy you'll need a dual layer burner with a dual layer media.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: AnyMal

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
use anyDVD to "unlock" the DVD..
you can then use windows explorer to copy the files to your hard drive.

from there you can copy them anywhere you want, bit perfect

Really? Wow, where can I find this "anyDVD" program? Could I use this to make an exact copy of a DVD, by burning all the files onto a DVD+R?

Remember that retail DVD's are burned onto dual layer disks, so if you want a prefect one-for-one copy you'll need a dual layer burner with a dual layer media.

Yeah, and the DL media are very expensive. What if the retail DVD had less than 4.7GB of data? I assume this would work with single layer media?

 

[AnyMal]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: AnyMal

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
use anyDVD to "unlock" the DVD..
you can then use windows explorer to copy the files to your hard drive.

from there you can copy them anywhere you want, bit perfect

Really? Wow, where can I find this "anyDVD" program? Could I use this to make an exact copy of a DVD, by burning all the files onto a DVD+R?

Remember that retail DVD's are burned onto dual layer disks, so if you want a prefect one-for-one copy you'll need a dual layer burner with a dual layer media.

Yeah, and the DL media are very expensive. What if the retail DVD had less than 4.7GB of data? I assume this would work with single layer media?

In that case, yes

 

[joecool]

well, i seem to at least have found something that works for mpeg 1/2 creation in eazyvcd. however it's painfully slow and can only convert a single chain at a time. at least nero recode could take all the chains from a single disk at once. eazyvcd is also a complete resource hog - when the actual conversion is running (done by tmpeginc) it literally takes 100% of the cpu. nero recode only seemed to take around 60%-70%. wierd, since recode makes a higher quality copy - mpeg4 at dvd level resolution. eazyvcd does work straight from the source dvd, tho, so it's essentially a one-step process. the biggest issue is that since it only takes one chain at a time it requires a lot of user input to copy a single disk - a lot of hassle to copy multiple episodes from a single disk.

bottom line, i'm still looking for a good solution to this. and i'm still amazed at what a hassle this is, and how very few folks seem to really understand how this all works.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: joecool
well, i seem to at least have found something that works for mpeg 1/2 creation in eazyvcd. however it's painfully slow and can only convert a single chain at a time. at least nero recode could take all the chains from a single disk at once. eazyvcd is also a complete resource hog - when the actual conversion is running (done by tmpeginc) it literally takes 100% of the cpu. nero recode only seemed to take around 60%-70%. wierd, since recode makes a higher quality copy - mpeg4 at dvd level resolution. eazyvcd does work straight from the source dvd, tho, so it's essentially a one-step process. the biggest issue is that since it only takes one chain at a time it requires a lot of user input to copy a single disk - a lot of hassle to copy multiple episodes from a single disk.

bottom line, i'm still looking for a good solution to this. and i'm still amazed at what a hassle this is, and how very few folks seem to really understand how this all works.

It's a hell of a lot easier now than it was a couple of years ago. At one point in time, it took 4+ different apps to go from DVD to a divx encoded .avi, and it seemed way too complicated. I didn't even bother. But when Fair Use came out...

 

[Vernor]

What portable player is it anyway ?

 

[joecool]

i'm fiddling with two - the creative zen pmc and the archos gmini 400. to get video to the zen it has to be in a format that windows media player can recognize and convert - mpeg 1/2, wmv, or avi. to get video to the gmini it has to be in a format the gmini converter can handle - avi or mpeg1. quite a hassle.

 

[znaps]

That sucks. You'd think someone would have come up with a good all-in-one solution by now.

 

[Vernor]

Aren't these gizmos primarily MP3/VCD players ?

I wouldn't expect a great 480p picture from them or anything.

 

[joecool]

Originally posted by: Vernor
Aren't these gizmos primarily MP3/VCD players ?

I wouldn't expect a great 480p picture from them or anything.

you are correct, but that's not the problem i'm having. the problem is simply converting the dvd to a format that the pmp/pmc can then convert to it's native format.

 

[teesdale48]

The gmini 400 supports divx and xvid video formats with mp3 audio in a .avi container with resolution up to 640X400. The best tool that I found for converting to this format is Auto Gordian Knot that is available at doom9.org. In the guides section of doom9 there is a step by step instruction on how to use this tool. The forum there is also the best place that I have found for getting answers on anything related to video encoding and dvd backups.

**edited 640X480 to 640X400 - my mistake