best value for a dual-core solution

[Acanthus]

Zinn2b/intelia is back, dude why cant you just give up.

 

[themusgrat]

Opteron 165 is the best value now, I'm convinced. Monarch has them in stock now.

 

[esaias]

Originally posted by: stevty2889

Originally posted by: esaias
I was thinking of Intel stuff because there will be dual cores with HT enabled (and 840 EE ofcourse but I will not buy that) and though of having 4 threads running just for Sonar is appealing.

-Tomi

The only dual cores that will have hyperthreading are the extreme editions, so you won't find an inexpensive dual core with hyperthreading. The other problem reported with the extreme edition, is that windows see's 4 logical cores, it doesn't know which are the real cores, and which are the hyperthreading..so it actualy ends up performing worse..because a program will use a real core, and hyperthreading, rather than using the 2 real cores. If you aren't going to overclock, it doesn't even make sense to wait for the 65nm dual cores, since they will only be going to 3.4ghz, and have no architectural improvements. Cedar Mill= die shrunk 6xx series prescott, and Presler = 2 cedar mill die packaged together. Overclocked, the Presler COULD do well, at stock speeds, the X2 is already ahead.

Yes, you have some very good points there, which I have thought myself too. Although I have seen an Intel roadmap which gave impression that future dualcore's, the 9xx series, won't be built like current 840EE style (which is like glueing two cores in one package)

I would be grateful if someone could point out somethign about AMD's future plans, I like to buy a system that I can still upgrade with new processor during the next year (or maybe two ) AMD has great memory speed/bandwidth etc. but my main use for the system is music making which (AFAIK) doesn't include heavy memory traffic but need lots of pure processing power.

Well, anyways. I guess my main worry is the future compability, and I know so little about AMD's stuff. And Intel's stuff is cheaper and I have some knowledge about them...

Thanks for answers and have nice Christmast!

-Tomi

 

[stevty2889]

Originally posted by: esaias

Originally posted by: stevty2889

Originally posted by: esaias
I was thinking of Intel stuff because there will be dual cores with HT enabled (and 840 EE ofcourse but I will not buy that) and though of having 4 threads running just for Sonar is appealing.

-Tomi

The only dual cores that will have hyperthreading are the extreme editions, so you won't find an inexpensive dual core with hyperthreading. The other problem reported with the extreme edition, is that windows see's 4 logical cores, it doesn't know which are the real cores, and which are the hyperthreading..so it actualy ends up performing worse..because a program will use a real core, and hyperthreading, rather than using the 2 real cores. If you aren't going to overclock, it doesn't even make sense to wait for the 65nm dual cores, since they will only be going to 3.4ghz, and have no architectural improvements. Cedar Mill= die shrunk 6xx series prescott, and Presler = 2 cedar mill die packaged together. Overclocked, the Presler COULD do well, at stock speeds, the X2 is already ahead.

Yes, you have some very good points there, which I have thought myself too. Although I have seen an Intel roadmap which gave impression that future dualcore's, the 9xx series, won't be built like current 840EE style (which is like glueing two cores in one package)

I would be grateful if someone could point out somethign about AMD's future plans, I like to buy a system that I can still upgrade with new processor during the next year (or maybe two ) AMD has great memory speed/bandwidth etc. but my main use for the system is music making which (AFAIK) doesn't include heavy memory traffic but need lots of pure processing power.

Well, anyways. I guess my main worry is the future compability, and I know so little about AMD's stuff. And Intel's stuff is cheaper and I have some knowledge about them...

Thanks for answers and have nice Christmast!

-Tomi

Socket M2 is the next thing for AMD, which will switch them to DDR2.

Intel will still be LGA775, but with a new chipset. I have 3 LGA775 cpu's, and 3 LGA775 motherboards, but they aren't all compatible. Pentium-D won't work with 865/875, or 915/925 chipset. 6xx series won't work with all of the 865/875 chipset boards. Dual core Extreme edition won't work with 945/8x5,915/925 chipests, even though they are all LGA775..same thing happened with socket 478, when you had Williamette, Northwood, and Prescott cores, and they were all socket 478, but didn't work with all socket 478 motherboards...meanwhile for AMD all socket 939 cpu's will work with all socket 939 motherboards.

 

[themusgrat]

Don't expect M2 to revolutionize AMD; those of us who have good 939 setups will have little reason to switch. Also, Intel will be doing much better, but it will have to do nothing short of a miracle to catch up to AMD in terms of performance. Sure, Intels run faster, but AMDs are way more efficient. In terms of pure processing power, now that AMD has included SSE3 with the newest lines of all products, AMD beats the Intel at any price point. Dual Intels with HT may sound good, but there are no consumer-level apps that are quad threaded, and Ht isn't anywhere as good as another core. So until you see quad threaded apps (we haven't seen barely any 2 threaded apps yet), the AMD will always beat the Intel. As far as compatibility, any 939, even unsupported opterons, will work in any nF4 board. As far as DDR2, it isn't that much better than DDR because of the higher latencies, though that is getting better fast.

 

[F1shF4t]

Originally posted by: Betwon

Originally posted by: Markfw900
I didn't see a post from the OP thats says he won't OC, and I have 3 X2 3800's, and the worst of the bunch does 2500.

betwon, until you can buy a pressler and we see the price, and a benchmark review from anandtech or other reputable site, stop quoting synthetic benchmarks that can't even be verified and are crap to start with.

A boy.

The facts about SPEC CPU2000 let you feel angry?

What do you think about the most important performance test which can show the interge/FP performance?

Ok i got a benchmark also, which can add 1+1 more times per sec pd 830 or X2 3800, for sure the PD will do better since higher clock speeds. That shows interger performance, but the real question is what program are u gona find which will do that only?

Thats pretty much synthetic benchmarks for u, used to test part of a cpu, but the performance of a cpu is the whole thing together, so it does not matter if the PD can add more times when it comes to running a complex programs like a game the PD gets beaten.

 

[mitchie]

Me again. With all the trolling going on, my question got ignored.:brokenheart:

What DDR speed would an X2 3800 need to not be bottlenecked?

Thanks

 

[Markfw]

It runs fine on PC3200

Edit: I just noticed this question you posed:

What kind of DDR would I need? Any chance I could use the stuff I have in my P4 rig now? I think it's DDR333.

Thats PC2700, and you can use a divider, that won't hurt your performance too much with the X2, so yes, you can use it.

 

[the splat in the hat]

Originally posted by: stevty2889
Definatly go AMD, with an NF4 chipset. I have an X2 and a pentium-d, and even at stock speeds there is no comparison, the X2 is superior. Overclocking only increases the X2's advanatage. My overclocked X2 on the stock heatsink runs at about the same temp as my Pentium-D 830 at stock speeds on water cooling..

Totally what he said !

 

[seanp789]

go with opteron 165, cheap $$$ with good OC

 

[DrMrLordX]

Originally posted by: mitchie
Me again. With all the trolling going on, my question got ignored.:brokenheart:

What DDR speed would an X2 3800 need to not be bottlenecked?

Thanks

DDR400 should do the trick. You might get memory-bottlenecked if you OC heavily and use a divider to keep it at DDR400 speeds, but I wouldn't worry about that too much. Even X2s are not very memory-hungry. Just make sure you're running your RAM in a dual-channel configuration, and you should be fine.

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: Betwon

Originally posted by: Markfw900
Until a site other than the Inquirerer shows it can OC, and you can buy them, and they aren;t a furnace, its all fanboy crap !!!!

Edit: And even if they can do 4.26 at 91C, by my calculations, they would have to run at 4.5 ghz to keep up with my 3800+@2550 running 41c. So they loose again (of course all of this is crap until a reputable web site can benchmark the two, but some people just like to spread FUD)

In the float point test, SPEC CPU2000 CFP rates_base:
At 32-bit,
PD820@2.8GHz had defeated Opteron@2.2GHz/L2 2M very easily.

Even at 64-bit, Opteron@2.0GHz/L2 2M can not win PD820(32-bit).

Presler@4.5ghz is much fast than AthlonX2@2.55G.

No one can let 3800+@2550 running 41c with the supplied AMD stock fan.

Ummm...no. Please post a link...and then look at all of the other SPEC scores for the same CPU. Only one of the manufacturers did poorly with Opteron, and it was tuned that way! The HP, SUN, AMD and others far surpassed the overclocked 820D on all SPEC scores.

Edit: Let me be clearer...the Acer SPEC system you are mentioning (BTW, it was the ONLY one that scored lower) used the Intel compiler that is already named in AMD's lawsuit. That's because it detects for "Genuine Intel" chips and if it's not Intel it disables a good portion of SSE. Gee...I wonder why the FP numbers are low??

Edit2: I can understand if you don't have the experience or knowledge to be aware of this, but if you did then you really are nothing but a troll in my book...

 

[Viditor]

Spec2000 FPRates

TYAN S2865 K8E Tomcat, AMD Opteron (TM) 170
2GB DDR, Standard IDE HDD, PathScale EKOPath(TM) Compiler Suite, Release 2.1
SPECfp_rate2000 = 31.3
SPECfp_rate_base2000 = 29.4

Altos G5350 (2.2GHz, Dual-Core AMD Opteron (TM) 275
4GB DDR, 36GB 10000RPM U320 SCSI HDD, Intel C++ 9.0 build 20050430Z for IA32,
Intel Fortran 9.0 build 20050722Z for IA32
SPECfp_rate2000 = 31.1
SPECfp_rate_base2000 = 28.6

Doesn't this suggest that Acer has tuned the Altos poorly???

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: esaias
I have also been struggling with the decision whether to buy Pentium D or AthlonX2 based sytem. I was first going into Athlon X2 but then turned to Pentium D because I saw it more sustainable investion. I think I'll buy some cheap 775-processor for time being and go for 65nm's when they come out. BUT now when I read this thread I came doubtlful again.

My main use for the sytem would be music production (Sonar 5, 64bit and multithreaded) and video editing. (no gaming, no need for SLI etc.)

NO Overclocking!

I was thinking of Intel stuff because there will be dual cores with HT enabled (and 840 EE ofcourse but I will not buy that) and though of having 4 threads running just for Sonar is appealing.

What does the AMD's roadmap look like? what does the AMD have to offer a year from now?

One more very important question:

If I buy, for example Gigabyte GA-8I955X Royal or some Asus 955x, will they be compatible with the forthcoming 65nm processors? I understand that they are, but it has been quite difficult to find a definiteve yes or no for an answer.

Thänks!

-Tomi

I would strongly suggest the X2...while the M2 will be released soon, support for the 939 chips is guaranteed for 3 more years. Changes expected for AMD this next year are smaller and less "heralded" than Intel's...
However, AMD has started manufacture on a new SiGe strained silicon process which will give them much more headroom on 90nm (3GHz+) in 2006, and the next year they will be all 65nm as well (with a few showing up late 2006 at the top end).
In addition, I would not expect to just drop a Conroe based chip into your rig when they come out late next Fall/early winter...

As a professional editor myself, I can assure you that none of the post facilities are even considering an Intel solution now...