Best sure-fire strategy for the Dems in 08 IMHO

[blackangst1]

I dont have any news article to link, but wanted to open up for opinions. Given the following statements are true:
*The majority of Americans think GWB should be impeached
*The majority of Americans believe the Iraq war is based on lies and is a losing proposition

Why dont them Dems start proceedings? Sure, it'll get squashed. But...can you imagine the support they would get for 08? Every candidate could run on the "We thought GWB was wrong and tried to do something about it...and our record proves it". So whats the risk? Isnt the general consensus that GWB IS in fact impeachable? What do the Dems have to lose?

IMO? Two things. One, they are as corrupt as GWB is perceived to be, and two, they have ZERO intention of ending the war anytime soon.

Thoughts?

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
I dont have any news article to link, but wanted to open up for opinions. Given the following statements are true:
*The majority of Americans think GWB should be impeached
*The majority of Americans believe the Iraq war is based on lies and is a losing proposition

Why dont them Dems start proceedings? Sure, it'll get squashed. But...can you imagine the support they would get for 08? Every candidate could run on the "We thought GWB was wrong and tried to do something about it...and our record proves it". So whats the risk? Isnt the general consensus that GWB IS in fact impeachable? What do the Dems have to lose?

IMO? Two things. One, they are as corrupt as GWB is perceived to be, and two, they have ZERO intention of ending the war anytime soon.

Thoughts?

It would take a mighty big fvck up for the dems not to roll over the GOP in '08. That might big fvck up would to try and bring articles of impeachment.

Remember Congress is seen in even more unfavorable light than Bush. And while Iraq has something to do with it, its only one of many issues why Congress has a very low approval rating.

 

[blackangst1]

But youre assuming the public wouldnt support it. Or do you think they wouldnt? Or maybe you think most Americans DONT think GWB is impeachable? Not trying to flame, just looking for ideas.

And given the senates unpopularity of late, I wouldnt say the GOP is gonna get rolled. But thats a seperate issue.

 

[2Xtreme21]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
But youre assuming the public wouldnt support it. Or do you think they wouldnt? You think most Americans DONT think GWB is impeachable?

I don't think most Americans would support impeaching GWB at the moment.

 

[theeedude]

Why? I think having GWB there in November is the best thing to get a Democratic sweep.
He threw the GOP under the bus in 2006, he'll shove them under a train in 2008 As "unelectable" as Hillary is claimed to be, it's going to be pretty damn hard for a Republican (and Guiliani is the only one who has a chance to begin with) to juggle being for this war without seeming like more of the same, or trying to distance themselves from Bush without looking like a flip flopper.

 

[Gneisenau]

Naw, with their approval rating now, it would only hurt. The best thing the dems can do is get down to business and do something. The country is sick of all the political posturing going on in Washington and congress's poll ratings prove it.

In fact, maybe the best thing they can do right now is sit on their hands for a while. It would be refreshing to hear someone's comapain slogan be "I'll vote against every single law proposed while I'm in office." Or better yet "I'll reduce the number of laws on the books by 90%." Now that's a worth goal.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Just a little head's up for the newer members in here. The Democratic supporters in here got a litle cocky in '04 too, right up to election night. (where's conjur, btw? ) They ended up with a bad hangover the following day. Or maybe it was just a nasty blow to the head?

Don't imagine the Dems are just going to steamroll the GOP in the next election. imo, it's going to be another cliffhanger, just like '06 was.

 

[daveymark]

Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21

Originally posted by: blackangst1
But youre assuming the public wouldnt support it. Or do you think they wouldnt? You think most Americans DONT think GWB is impeachable?

I don't think most Americans would support impeaching GWB at the moment.

bingo - it's just the fringe left that is looking for impeachment, and although there are many elected officials beholden to the kook fringe, said officials are finally realizing that these moonbats have the wrong idea - hence the lowest poll numbers for congress in recent memory

a great example of this is pelosi ignoring cindy sheehan's call for impeachment

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
IMO? Two things.

they are as corrupt as GWB is perceived to be,

they have ZERO intention of ending the war anytime soon.

Thoughts?

>Caveman on

Yes, I have a response

What?

< Caveman off

Seriously, here are two definitions of trolling to place at the top of the forum.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Don't imagine the Dems are just going to steamroll the GOP in the next election. imo, it's going to be another cliffhanger, just like '06 was.

With same result, a Democrat sweep.

 

[Lemon law]

The dems have a far better track record of getting rid of someone they go after than the Republicans. Right now the mood of the country is not strong enough to support impeachment and conviction of both GWB and Cheney. But as I wrote on another thread not five minutes ago, GWB is skating on mighty thin ice, and may well be one big scandal away from falling through the ice.

The other practical reality is that the GOP has veto power on conviction in the Senate. Until the GOP is ready to climb aboard an impeach GWB&Cheney movement, any effort is an exercise in traumatic national futility the nation should not be subjected to for mere political showmanship. But just like Nixon and the now resigned Sen. Craig, the GOP can turn on their own with shocking sudden savagery.

If the dems do start impeachment against GWB&Cheney, the smart money will be on them getting their man up to and including conviction in the Senate.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Don't imagine the Dems are just going to steamroll the GOP in the next election. imo, it's going to be another cliffhanger, just like '06 was.

With same result, a Democrat sweep.

Could be. They could just as easily end up sweeping the halls and bathrooms too.

We'll see.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: blackangst1
IMO? Two things.

they are as corrupt as GWB is perceived to be,

they have ZERO intention of ending the war anytime soon.

Thoughts?

>Caveman on

Yes, I have a response

What?

< Caveman off

Seriously, here are two definitions of trolling to place at the top of the forum.

Wow. A well put together series of thoughts. The caveman is appropriate! You really arent capable of anything other than one liners are you?

 

[ProfJohn]

The Dems won't push impeachment because they know it is a losing issue.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Don't imagine the Dems are just going to steamroll the GOP in the next election. imo, it's going to be another cliffhanger, just like '06 was.

With same result, a Democrat sweep.

Could be. They could just as easily end up sweeping the halls and bathrooms too.

We'll see.

Well, if the dems end up sweeping congressional bathrooms and halls, at least they will maintain a Washington DC presence. And the GOP may become an endangered species
after 11/08 without qualifying for any of the protections of that law they opposed.

And the GOP can't even hang out at K street because the smart money long ago left and K street is a ghost town not worth cleaning.

Shall we sing the funeral dirges of those GOP superstars of yesteryear. Delay, Santorium, Nay, Cunningham, Abramoff, Foley, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Gonzales, Libby, Craig, Ashcroft,
Goodling, Samson, Rove, Miers, Sara Taylor, and the list goes on and on. Sadly some good men like Colin Powell and Chafee went down also, but when you play with the GOP, you can't help but get dirty or lose public favor.

Now lets look at the dems. Certainly the GOP can counter with Gov. McGreevy of NJ who has the same problem that afflicted Craig and Foley. Mr. Jefferson should also be missing
but its seems the Republican Justice department has not yet moved to get the case to trial. Meanwhile the dems have stripped him of all committee assignments while they wait for the justice department to move and move thing from innuendo to hard evidence.. And thats about all the dems in serious trouble even though some Republicans would like to expand the list with innuendo type charges equally applicative to anyone in either party.

Oddly enough, purging the crooks should help the Republicans in 08, but they can't run as the party of congressional obstructionists and hope to win in 08. Nor should the GOP bet on GWB&co. pulling a rabbit out of their hat when turds are more their usual track record.

I agree, we will see, and much water will go over the dam between now and 11/08. But pardon me if I think you, TLC, are being a little Bullish on the GOP well past the point of being a bullshitter. You only fool yourself.

 

[Pabster]

Why aren't they?

Well, it is really pretty simple. The truth is that the vast majority of Americans do not support it. And when you have a Congress that can't break a 20% approval rating.....

I see total and complete destruction for the Dems in '08. The radical left-wingers which now own the party are really starting to become fed up with those they "helped" elect. Of course, they should have known better. A lot of moderate Dems were elected in the last term. They'll simply not go for an extremist agenda that MoveOn.org and Code Pink advocate. And these groups will begin to destroy them. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: daveymark

Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21

Originally posted by: blackangst1
But youre assuming the public wouldnt support it. Or do you think they wouldnt? You think most Americans DONT think GWB is impeachable?

I don't think most Americans would support impeaching GWB at the moment.

bingo - it's just the fringe left that is looking for impeachment, and although there are many elected officials beholden to the kook fringe, said officials are finally realizing that these moonbats have the wrong idea - hence the lowest poll numbers for congress in recent memory

a great example of this is pelosi ignoring cindy sheehan's call for impeachment

Thank you for pointing the moonbats on this board

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Pabster
Why aren't they?

Well, it is really pretty simple. The truth is that the vast majority of Americans do not support it. And when you have a Congress that can't break a 20% approval rating.....

I see total and complete destruction for the Dems in '08. The radical left-wingers which now own the party are really starting to become fed up with those they "helped" elect. Of course, they should have known better. A lot of moderate Dems were elected in the last term. They'll simply not go for an extremist agenda that MoveOn.org and Code Pink advocate. And these groups will begin to destroy them. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I would also add IMHO the Dems have commited political suicide already by doing a b s o l u t e l y n o t h i n g after being elected.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: Pabster
Why aren't they?

Well, it is really pretty simple. The truth is that the vast majority of Americans do not support it. And when you have a Congress that can't break a 20% approval rating.....

I see total and complete destruction for the Dems in '08. The radical left-wingers which now own the party are really starting to become fed up with those they "helped" elect. Of course, they should have known better. A lot of moderate Dems were elected in the last term. They'll simply not go for an extremist agenda that MoveOn.org and Code Pink advocate. And these groups will begin to destroy them. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

More self delusional koolaid Pabster . If the radical left of the democratic party controlled the agenda, the funding for the Iraq war would have been history around March. As it is, the democrats are far more centrists than the Republicans. And more importantly time is on the side of the democrats and time is rapidly running out for the GOP who must soon decide to run with or run away from the policies of GWB&co. The election of 08 is still fog on everyones radar screens but everyone is looking towards 11/08 to come into sharper focus. Already you see the GOP moderates of Warner and Lugar making strong threats that they will soon bolt to the democratic side with a coalition of other GOP moderates to end the congressional gridlock.

The dems are not feeling the heat of fence straddling nearly as badly as the Republicans.

And for the swing voters, your thesis only works if those who deserted the GOP in 06 later decide that the ideas they deserted the GOP on in 06 suddenly start working in prior to 11/08. When the historical conclusion is that GWB and positive results are total strangers.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
I agree, we will see, and much water will go over the dam between now and 11/08. But pardon me if I think you, TLC, are being a little Bullish on the GOP well past the point of being a bullshitter. You only fool yourself.

Really? What comment did I make that was bullish on the GOP? afaik, I made none. My comments were directed at the Dems, not the GOP. Or are you under the assumption that if someone bashes the Dems they must be on the side of the GOP?

If that's the case then it's quite the black & white, simplistic thinking on your part. You might want to think a bit more abstractly and complexly if you want to understand where I am coming from.

But I appreciate your effort to comprehend me and I'm touched that you took some time to ponder my beliefs.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Just a little head's up for the newer members in here. The Democratic supporters in here got a litle cocky in '04 too, right up to election night. (where's conjur, btw? ) They ended up with a bad hangover the following day. Or maybe it was just a nasty blow to the head?

Don't imagine the Dems are just going to steamroll the GOP in the next election. imo, it's going to be another cliffhanger, just like '06 was.

IIRC, the dems didn't lose a single race, and re-took both houses - that's a historic landslide, not a "cliffhanger", if you weren't wearing the partisan glasses.

While the type of landslide may have been more in the net race outcomes than the margin of the elections, so what?

2008 might be somewhat close, not because the republicans deserve it, but because of factors such as their access to large amounts of money, and because of their 'voter challenge' plans where they'll make efforts through voiding registrations and challenging voters to reduce the minority turnout that favors democrats, just as Florida was 'close' at 527 votes because they're removed tens of thousans of black voters from the rolls, among other factors. 2004 was 'close' because of suppressing the black vote there, too.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Craig234
2008 might be somewhat close, not because the republicans deserve it, but because of factors such as their access to large amounts of money, and because of their 'voter challenge' plans where they'll make efforts through voiding registrations and challenging voters to reduce the minority turnout that favors democrats, just as Florida was 'close' at 527 votes because they're removed tens of thousans of black voters from the rolls, among other factors. 2004 was 'close' because of suppressing the black vote there, too.

And the excuses have begun...

Let me guess Craig...voting machine problems? hanging chads? Or is it all racism?

 

[Lemon law]

To TLC,

Who asks---Really? What comment did I make that was bullish on the GOP? afaik, I made none. My comments were directed at the Dems, not the GOP. Or are you under the assumption that if someone bashes the Dems they must be on the side of the GOP?

Oh what a short memory you have when you implied the dems could end up sweeping the floors and bathrooms after 08. Anything is possible but only some things are more probable than others alternatives. If the dems end up sweeping floors it does mean the GOP does the sweeping. Unless you are predicting a libertarian sweep or something even more absurd.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Just a little head's up for the newer members in here. The Democratic supporters in here got a litle cocky in '04 too, right up to election night. (where's conjur, btw? ) They ended up with a bad hangover the following day. Or maybe it was just a nasty blow to the head?

And I know countless people who now say they wish they would have voted for Kerry in the 2004 election and I have a sneaking suspicion that those people won't fall for the GOP BS this time I guess we'll have to wait for '08 to find out.

Don't imagine the Dems are just going to steamroll the GOP in the next election. imo, it's going to be another cliffhanger, just like '06 was.

Yeah, '06 was a real cliffhanger and the insurgency is in it's last throes too!!

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: Craig234
2008 might be somewhat close, not because the republicans deserve it, but because of factors such as their access to large amounts of money, and because of their 'voter challenge' plans where they'll make efforts through voiding registrations and challenging voters to reduce the minority turnout that favors democrats, just as Florida was 'close' at 527 votes because they're removed tens of thousans of black voters from the rolls, among other factors. 2004 was 'close' because of suppressing the black vote there, too.

And the excuses have begun...

Let me guess Craig...voting machine problems? hanging chads? Or is it all racism?

The lies from you have begun, Pabster. There have been voting machine problems, especially such as voting machines being few in number for blacks in Ohio. There have been hanging chad prroblems, as many thousands of votes were invalidated in the Florida election where 537 votes decided who the president was - and where it was just recently reported that the company who made the ballots had scrimped by starting to use a cheaper quality of paper for the ballots. And yes, there has been racism, not because of 'hatred of race', but because of politics - blacks vote over 90% democratic, and that makes them a very attractive target for republican operatives. That's why blacks were highly disproprtionately affected by the Florida 'felon purge' scam, for example.

Rather than deal with the facts, you hide behind sarcasm as if you can pretend the issues don't exist. That's the behavior of an ideologue, not a real man, a citizen.

Researching the republican operatives' plans for robbing votes in the 2008 election isn't 'making excuses', it's exposing the problem, if any are found.

I think democrats' chances are good in 2008; and I think that there are problematic activities which will shift votes away from them, too. Real Americans care when the integrity of their elections are violated - regardless of who is helped by the activities that undermine it.

You may think that you are just fine because you would not agree to any such activities if the proof was black and white in fromt of you, but your willingness to be willfully ignorant of the problems and go around spouting that they therefore aren't real makes you little better than those who knowingly do agree to them.