TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2004
- 16,852
- 59
- 86
Granted, parallels can be drawn between Congress and Animal House, but the whole "double probation" thing is stretching things a bit.
Impeachment has been, and always will be a political question and not a legal one. What constitutes a valid case for impeachment is pretty much entirely up to Congress and I can't ever see the Supreme Court stepping in to invalidate one. I mean... ever. I would say that yes definitely, Congress can impeach the President just because they don't like the job he's doing... so long as they can get a 2/3rds majority. Sure they might dress it slightly differently, but the intent and the outcome would be the same.
I also think that the idea that people are dissatisfied with government due to the fighting between the two branches is not supported by the facts. It is a persistant rumor that has a life of its own. There have been numerous polls stating that people are mad at Congress for not investigating and fighting with Bush MORE then they are now. They want MORE conflict, not less.
That being said, as I wrote before an impeachment would shift the paradigm, and since it is nearly totally in the Democrats favor right now it would be foolish to do.
I also think that the idea that people are dissatisfied with government due to the fighting between the two branches is not supported by the facts. It is a persistant rumor that has a life of its own. There have been numerous polls stating that people are mad at Congress for not investigating and fighting with Bush MORE then they are now. They want MORE conflict, not less.
That being said, as I wrote before an impeachment would shift the paradigm, and since it is nearly totally in the Democrats favor right now it would be foolish to do.
Then your recollection is very faulty, because the democrats won many, many races they were not 'supposed' to win, albeit often by small margins.
It was a landslide comparable to the republicans gaining Congress over a decade erlier.
Your attempt at an analogy only provided something completely wrong.
Do you ever still encounter any facts, or are you only getting info from the cult now?
IMO you show a real lack of understanding of how 'the system' works, how the public gets more engaged in what's happening.
The public can get more engaged by improvements to the system. People didn't go out and vote for their leaders a whole lot before the American Revolution; the system of democracy wasn't in place to encourage doing so. The cliche for third parties is that it's 'throwing your vote away', and that's a problem with the system of our politics, not voter apathy; with ranked voting, the voters could vote for third parties on an equal footing with the big two.
You're welcome to continue to be an embittered armchair critic who poo poo's the only thing that will get you the change you want, though.
Again IMO, it's people like you who are so easily manipulated by the political operatives who know how to point your anti-Washington bitterness right where they want it.
The old saying says you can led horse to water but not make it drink; you are showing a good example IMO, as you turn your nose at ranked voting.
I'm not chirping about any wars Bush started this year, either, so I guess I must be unwilling to criticize him for them.
I'm unaware of any widespread problems with 2006 as there were with 2000 and 2004. If you can prove differently, we're still waiting.
TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2004
- 16,852
- 59
- 86
lol. Go visit the website electionprojection.com. Even GOP members were projecting the final outcome to go to the Democrats and it wasn't any huge surprise. Were there a few surprises? Yeah, about 3 in total. And some races the Dems were suppose to take easily ended up extremely close.
I don't know where you were at the time but the final results were no big surprise to anyone.
I'll be happy to address any facts you might have on the matter...when you actually post one.
Yeah. Well I've only been a part of this "system" for 48 years so what do I know? No doubt your experience with the "system" is of a vast and wide scope. I would venture to guess that you've seen it all and plan to see even more when you graduate college and get out in the real world.
Uh huh. I'm the "embittered" one around here.
You guys crack me up.
you missed the point, as usual.
your ilk weren't so zealous in finding voting problems with the 06 elections because the dems won. dems win, therefore the voting process was perfect.
republicans have no problems accepting loss in 06. this is not the case with dems in 00 and 04, as well as 08 according to you. dems can't handle defeat.
of course, if dems win in 08, all this nonsense about robbing votes will once again "conveniently" disappear
that's some nice revisionist history... Republicans from Bush and Rove on down were saying that it was a long shot for the Democrats to take both houses.
TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2004
- 16,852
- 59
- 86
And you find that surprising?
I suppose you also believe Lane Kiffin is going to announce that the Raiders are going to suck again and have another dreadful season? I mean, it's true. So why doesn't he just speak the truth?
Sheesh. I'd swear the subtleties, nuances, and vagaries of reality just completely pass some people by in life.
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
- 20,984
- 3
- 0
The facts is that a combination of a republican rubber stamp congress and GWB delivered America a total failure got tossed out in the election of 11/2006.
Had 2006 been a quadrennial Presidential election year, the likely result would have been the
lack of re-election of both the GOP congress which happened and the election of a democratic President which could not happen because 2006 was an off year election.
Meaning that the GOP is still in denial about the message of the 11/06 election and still supporting a GWB. You may think you have a snappy comeback by invoking animal house,
but my double probation comment still stands.
And the relevant question becomes, will the GOP congress move to upgrade to mere single probation or wallow in being on double probation? In terms of the latter OPTION, the GOP still bets the animal house farm on delivering success by 11/2008.
TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2004
- 16,852
- 59
- 86
afaik, there are still Republicans in Congress. And despite how bad they were Congress's ratings really didn't hit the proverbial skids until the Democrats got a majority, promised to make changes, and then proceeded to preen, pose, and deliver nothing of substance; their usual MO when they are in charge. So there was a message sent in '06 and there is another being sent now. But continue to gaze back lovingly on history while ignoring that the public thinks the Democrats they gave a chance to suck even worse than the Republican-majority Congress they replaced.
I don't know about your ilk, but you are simply a liar. I'd be just as concerned about democratic fraud as republican. Instead of providing proof of some massive democratic fraud, you fail to and just claim it exists and is being covered up by the democrats. You could hardly be a worse poster.
You lie again, pretending the reason isn't that there was broad republican misbehavior, but instead simply the democrats making up the issues.
Of course, you will be either saying there was no fraud if republicans win, or that the democratics did fraud and are covering it up if democrats win.
You obviously, from the lack of ANY facts in your post, don't care about the fact in your opinions. You're a huge partisan, judging by this post.
TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2004
- 16,852
- 59
- 86
If the Republicans caught in sex scandals were smart they would simply switch party affiliation to Democrat after getting caught. That way if they get caught again in a public restroom playing footsies while their iPod is playing "...guilty feet have got no rhythm" people would say "Oh, he's a Democrat? Yawn."
Bowfinger
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2002
- 15,776
- 392
- 126
Perhaps you can find a poll that agrees with your claim, but Gallup, the first one I grabbed, disagrees: link. According to Gallup, Congressional approval dipped to a low of 21% in December (that would be when the Repubs were still the majority), climbed into the 30's once the Dems took over, but has now dropped back to 24% ... still 3 points higher than the Republican Congress' last report. Both ratings are poor, of course, but it is simply false to claim Congressional approval "hit the skids" when the Dems took over. It actually went up.
TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2004
- 16,852
- 59
- 86
Here, have a gander at a whole bunch of polls and their approval ratings:
http://www.pollingreport.com/CongJob.htm
One of the more reliable polls, Gallup, have them currently at 18%. Of course, whether I want to use that figure as reliable depends or not on whether I want to cherry pick a single poll, as you did. But the overall trend shows Congress tanking.
Bowfinger
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2002
- 15,776
- 392
- 126
I'm sure they have remedial reading at your school ...
If you weren't so eager to attack blindly, you might have noticed that the link I provided was Gallup ("one of the more reliable polls" according to you), and that their current approval number is 24%. As far as cherry-picking data is concerned, I'll simply point out that it is you who cherry-picked the single lowest number from the 60 or so 2007 polls on your list. In contrast, the most recent poll on your list, Fox, also shows Congress' approval at 24%. You also ignored the FACT that Congressional approval shot up substantially when the Dems took over, then eventually fell to about the same level as before.
TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2004
- 16,852
- 59
- 86
I guess dates aren't your strong point? The article you linked is from June. Look at the dates on the link I provided.
And YOU citing a Fox poll as reliable? Bwahaha. Be still my beating heart.
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
>Caveman on
Yes, I have a response
What?
< Caveman off
Seriously, here are two definitions of trolling to place at the top of the forum.
Wow. A well put together series of thoughts. The caveman is appropriate! You really arent capable of anything other than one liners are you?
Go away, you were correctly called out as a troll by Dave for goodness sakes.
Of course as the election got closer more and more predictions moved towards the actual results. That's not the point.
The landslide was historic, and up to just weeks before the election, most were predicting the democrats just had a fair chance to get the House, and very little on the Senate.
A lot more than 3 seats that were 'expected' to go to Republicans up to not that long before the election went to democrats. Check the predictions from 1 year to 3 months ahead of it.
I'll be happy to address any facts you might have on the matter...when you actually post one.
Yeah. Well I've only been a part of this "system" for 48 years so what do I know? No doubt your experience with the "system" is of a vast and wide scope.[/quote]
It might be, but it doesn't need to be to state the fact that you show a real lck of understanding how it works.
Let's use this as a measure of the accuracy of your views - you're very wrong. If you had any capacity for shame, you would recognize how your other views can be wrong as well.
Yes, you are, as you whine about how the American public hasn't 'risen up' and elected a third party to take back the country as you want.
You don't get why they don't do it, because you don't understand how the system works. So, you sit embittered about how the 'corrupt politicians' keep power instead.
That's what your post shows; if it's not case, correct it, but you are changing your tune.
I gave you some helpful info you can get what you want, long shot that it is. You can 'drink' or not, why would I care with your obnoxious attitude? The reason I would is for the good of society because you may be one voter, but you can't teach a pig to sing. No point wasting the time leading you to water repeatedly.
shortylickens
No Lifer
- Jul 15, 2003
- 80,287
- 17,082
- 136
I think this might have already been covered before but.....
The main problem I see with congress is that even though they have rotten approval ratings and tick people off constantly, those same voters keep electing the same bastards over and over again for decades at a time.
Part of that problem (I think) is that most people dont even know who their congressman is or what his/her stand is on any issues.
I seem to recall a camera crew and interviewer once got together and walked around a mall, asking people if they knew who their congressman was and his affiliation and viewpoints. In one whole day of shooting only two people tried to answer and only one of them got it right.
BUT, just about every single person knew exactly what movies were playing there, most of them knew the release dates of about 4 or 5 movies not out yet, and they also knew when the iPhone was coming out and what happened on last nights Desperate Housewives/ER/Sopranos and so on.
Kinda scary.
So if those guys know that voter ignorance gives them a chance to stay in office forever, why the heck would they risk pissing each other off, (or worse yet, big business) by trying to impeach the President?
EDIT:
Mine is Peter A. DeFazio (D) who I can only assume represents central Oregon.
The main problem I see with congress is that even though they have rotten approval ratings and tick people off constantly, those same voters keep electing the same bastards over and over again for decades at a time.
Part of that problem (I think) is that most people dont even know who their congressman is or what his/her stand is on any issues.
I seem to recall a camera crew and interviewer once got together and walked around a mall, asking people if they knew who their congressman was and his affiliation and viewpoints. In one whole day of shooting only two people tried to answer and only one of them got it right.
BUT, just about every single person knew exactly what movies were playing there, most of them knew the release dates of about 4 or 5 movies not out yet, and they also knew when the iPhone was coming out and what happened on last nights Desperate Housewives/ER/Sopranos and so on.
Kinda scary.
So if those guys know that voter ignorance gives them a chance to stay in office forever, why the heck would they risk pissing each other off, (or worse yet, big business) by trying to impeach the President?
EDIT:
Mine is Peter A. DeFazio (D) who I can only assume represents central Oregon.
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
- 20,984
- 3
- 0
For the TLC thesis to work, low congressional poll numbers have to translate into GOP support
in the upcoming election of 11/2008.
And because GWB has emasculating congressional effective, the deciding point is going to be the success of the GWB, who has this nation stuck in the quagmire of Iraq and is not doing all that great anywhere else.
And while its possible for the right, the left, and everyone and their brother in law to put their own political spin on events, it still boils down to the actual events with spin just being an attempt to change the momentary impact of an event. Bottom line reality still is real and changes the future.
So lets examine the history of GWB poll numbers. Dateline 11/2000, in the real poll that mattered, just a tiny hair under even, just before 911 GWB had dropped to just over 40%.Then 911 happened and nation had to rally around the President and did. And as GWB
started his various foreign adventures GWB approval shot up to an astounding 90%. Meaning
that for every detractor GWB had nine supporters. As GWB policies proceeded to deliver very disquieting results in Iraq, by the time 11/2004 rolled around GWB actual poll numbers
had dropped right back down to the almost exact same one detractor to one supporter it was exactly four years previously. Meanwhile congressional approval numbers were not in any stratosphere, the GOP rubber stamp congress charges were a public perception, and the GOP congress actually made slight gains in 11/2004. Bottom line, GWB caught the blame and the congress did not.
Then came the famous I got political capital and will use it statement by GWB. And GWB proceeded to try to cash in that political capital by reforming Social Security. And got the overwhelming message that the American people did not trust GWB monkeying around with something that important. Or to put it another way, the American people may not know what they are for but they sure don't trust the GOP to make any changes to the status quo. But give credit where credit is due, GWB&co was able to get through the next two years without
the congress being able to stop stay the course. And even when rascals like McCain were able to make legislative gains on human rights and campaign finance reform, GWB was able to amend the actual bills into meaninglessness. All in all a simply brilliant political performance by GWB&co. And as 2004 slowly turned into 2006 GWB poll numbers slipped from a one supporter to every detractor, to one supporter to every 1.5 detractor, and now we are somewhere around one supporter to every two detractors point that public support poll numbers seems to orbit around. Going as low as 28% or so and sometimes hitting as high as 38%.
And by the 11/2006 rolled around, the GOP congress did catch the blame. With most in agreement that the election of 2006 was a public mandate against GWB. And again give credit where credit is due, GWB&co plus the remaining congressional GOP members are doing a simply brilliant job of emasculating congress. The point being, the USA is now basically stuck in a rut and not going anywhere. Since when is having your automobile stuck in the ditch and waiting for a tow truck a good thing or something to brag about?
Maybe GWB&co. will get a basic draw with the Patraeus report thereby extending the wait time for the tow truck, but its sure not getting us out of the ditch. The news is that 11/2008 may not loom large yet but the start of the 2008 primary campaigns does loom large.
And soon the GOP is going to look at GWB and realize he just is not that needed Chinese football coach named Win Waun Suon. The point being, GWB due to prior blunders is way way behind, its in the fourth quarter with time ticking down, and GWB is not even playing catch up football. And unlike football that requires advancing the ball by getting a string of first downs, holding the ball while staying stuck in place until time runs out, is not a winning strategy. Either way, GWB&co will be gone by 1/20/2009 at latest. The ball is in the GOP court on deciding if they want to follow GWB&co into past history or not. Running another GWB clone for President is going to be a tough sell. Because its going to take a candidate who can sell the promise that I can succeed with the same policy GWB failed at.
The other political party almost always wins the next election when that strategy is tried.
Of course there is always that other delusion of thinking GWB is going to score a touchdown in Iraq by 11/2008. The probability of a fumble is much greater.
Maybe the GOP will catch a break and get another 911. But they better be very careful about
bombing Iran, that little brainfart could backfire very fast and result in the blocking of the Persian Gulf, $30.00/gal gas, and world condemnation of the USA.
Never say never, but its difficult to conceive that the GOP is going to come up roses in 2008.
The dems can stay the course and the GOP can't.
in the upcoming election of 11/2008.
And because GWB has emasculating congressional effective, the deciding point is going to be the success of the GWB, who has this nation stuck in the quagmire of Iraq and is not doing all that great anywhere else.
And while its possible for the right, the left, and everyone and their brother in law to put their own political spin on events, it still boils down to the actual events with spin just being an attempt to change the momentary impact of an event. Bottom line reality still is real and changes the future.
So lets examine the history of GWB poll numbers. Dateline 11/2000, in the real poll that mattered, just a tiny hair under even, just before 911 GWB had dropped to just over 40%.Then 911 happened and nation had to rally around the President and did. And as GWB
started his various foreign adventures GWB approval shot up to an astounding 90%. Meaning
that for every detractor GWB had nine supporters. As GWB policies proceeded to deliver very disquieting results in Iraq, by the time 11/2004 rolled around GWB actual poll numbers
had dropped right back down to the almost exact same one detractor to one supporter it was exactly four years previously. Meanwhile congressional approval numbers were not in any stratosphere, the GOP rubber stamp congress charges were a public perception, and the GOP congress actually made slight gains in 11/2004. Bottom line, GWB caught the blame and the congress did not.
Then came the famous I got political capital and will use it statement by GWB. And GWB proceeded to try to cash in that political capital by reforming Social Security. And got the overwhelming message that the American people did not trust GWB monkeying around with something that important. Or to put it another way, the American people may not know what they are for but they sure don't trust the GOP to make any changes to the status quo. But give credit where credit is due, GWB&co was able to get through the next two years without
the congress being able to stop stay the course. And even when rascals like McCain were able to make legislative gains on human rights and campaign finance reform, GWB was able to amend the actual bills into meaninglessness. All in all a simply brilliant political performance by GWB&co. And as 2004 slowly turned into 2006 GWB poll numbers slipped from a one supporter to every detractor, to one supporter to every 1.5 detractor, and now we are somewhere around one supporter to every two detractors point that public support poll numbers seems to orbit around. Going as low as 28% or so and sometimes hitting as high as 38%.
And by the 11/2006 rolled around, the GOP congress did catch the blame. With most in agreement that the election of 2006 was a public mandate against GWB. And again give credit where credit is due, GWB&co plus the remaining congressional GOP members are doing a simply brilliant job of emasculating congress. The point being, the USA is now basically stuck in a rut and not going anywhere. Since when is having your automobile stuck in the ditch and waiting for a tow truck a good thing or something to brag about?
Maybe GWB&co. will get a basic draw with the Patraeus report thereby extending the wait time for the tow truck, but its sure not getting us out of the ditch. The news is that 11/2008 may not loom large yet but the start of the 2008 primary campaigns does loom large.
And soon the GOP is going to look at GWB and realize he just is not that needed Chinese football coach named Win Waun Suon. The point being, GWB due to prior blunders is way way behind, its in the fourth quarter with time ticking down, and GWB is not even playing catch up football. And unlike football that requires advancing the ball by getting a string of first downs, holding the ball while staying stuck in place until time runs out, is not a winning strategy. Either way, GWB&co will be gone by 1/20/2009 at latest. The ball is in the GOP court on deciding if they want to follow GWB&co into past history or not. Running another GWB clone for President is going to be a tough sell. Because its going to take a candidate who can sell the promise that I can succeed with the same policy GWB failed at.
The other political party almost always wins the next election when that strategy is tried.
Of course there is always that other delusion of thinking GWB is going to score a touchdown in Iraq by 11/2008. The probability of a fumble is much greater.
Maybe the GOP will catch a break and get another 911. But they better be very careful about
bombing Iran, that little brainfart could backfire very fast and result in the blocking of the Persian Gulf, $30.00/gal gas, and world condemnation of the USA.
Never say never, but its difficult to conceive that the GOP is going to come up roses in 2008.
The dems can stay the course and the GOP can't.
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