Best sound-card? need one fast...

[dougjnn]

RGN --

Geeze, thanks. Bad Win2k is a deal breaker for me. I'm gonna be running Win2k all time time, except rarely Win98se, in my building Tbird box.

Back to Xgamer 4 channel, I guess. Well, at least I can get it for $55 with Need For Speed.

 

[OS]

Those guys at the enthusiast forum are on a good case of crack. I mean seriously, a portable CD player sounding better than a live? I sure don't hear it. In fact, I just compared it just now using the same speakers/amp and same CD/song. And don't try to tell me it's my speakers, I'm using an onkyo reciever and JBL bookshelf speakers. It must be one of those weird audiophile things, like how they say that recievers have to use vacuum tubes instead of transistors for the best quality. They like to pretend that their ears are more special than the rest of us

For nearly all consumers, the live is fine. Just get whatever is cheaper, of course adjusting for your needs first. In most situations, the limiting factor is the speakers anyways and usually not the sound card. Assuming of course that you have a decent soundcard.

 

[Muerto]

SB Live! Value. I love mine. Will only set you back $50 or so.

 

[RGN]

dougjnn: Yeah, its a bummer. The features that the card offered were awesome - not to mention price. I use a Live! X-gamer (CT4760). It goes into a older Pioneer reciever, it not the Harmon Kardon /Mirage setup (I like clean audio), but its just a computer and it sounds GOOD.

 

[Leo V]

OuterSquare, believe me, these audio enthusiasts have used equipment more expensive than ours combined, and a wide range of equipment at that. Most of these guys know what they're comparing. We're talking about a difference of DAC's, and a portable CD player could very well have a better (and less noise-compromised) DAC than an SBLive. I suspect that CD player manufacturers have more incentive for sound quality than Creative (which openly aims for 128kbps MP3 playback as its target quality).

I must give Creative some credit on this point: they've stood vehemently against fascist measures to restrict copying. (The SDMI initiative and the like.)

 

[Vinny N]

It's too bad I'll never have much of a choice when it comes to working with soundfonts.

 

[Webdd]

Building a new PC,
am I better off with Creative Live (OEM) for $40
or Phillips for $75 (retail, w/ more software to justify?). Is it that much better? I am paying more for other quality components, but this one has me curious.

Mostly for gaming and listening to MP3s at PC.

Thanks.

 

[Noriaki]

Webdd: I'd personally take the philips but it also depends on your speakers. If you have $15 speakers it's not going to matter which soundcard you get.

 

[dougjnn]

Webdd--

I was getting all hot for the Phillips until I discovered it doesn't have good Win2K drivers. That was a killer for me.

You might also want to consider that Win2k and progeny is the wave of the future. Mr. Softie has said that WinME is the last W9x version it is going to release. Whister will be based on a Win2k core.

As well, its nice to not have to reboot every time you load a program, or change anything. Not to mention not crashing all the time. Or having so much memory leakage that you have to reboot to restore responsiveness. Etc.

 

[OS]

<< We're talking about a difference of DAC's, and a portable CD player could very well have a better (and less noise-compromised) DAC than an SBLive. >>



Come on, seriously, a portable cd player? Are we talking about the same thing here? Those flimsy little things that people listen to while they are taking a walk? They aren't really built with sound quality in mind. Sound quality takes a back seat to battery life and compactness in the engineering of those things. The sound quality on those things are mediocre at best, especially when you use antishock memory.

As for noise, yeah my live has a fair amount of residual noise, but if I mute everything I'm not using under volume control, most of the hissing and buzzing goes away. As I understand it, it isn't a live specific problem though, I've seen it to some extent on every sound card I've used. I really think that those guys were exaggerating a fair amount when they claim portable cd players have better sound quality than the live. Either that or they might have done something wrong on the live.

 

[Zucchini]

its not a joke some portable cd players have really nice sound circutry I think a uc davis engineering professor hadsomething on his site about it. According to his tests panasonic cd players are great

 

[Possum]

Actually, the the Live! does have a noticeable amount of hissing. If I mute everything but wave and midi, which aren't playing, then I can hear a noticeable hiss. I know that some speakers and headphones have hiss anyway, but when I tried the same thing on my Santa Cruz card, there ware BARELY any hiss. I would turn the volume up all the way and barely hear any hiss with my headphones on. With my speakers, it's almost the same amount of hiss I'd hear if the sound card was muted.
As for the sound quality of portable CD players, some do have very clean outputs, usually the older models before all those extra memory, battery, and sound features were added.
I have to mention that vacuum tubes do provide better quality than transistors. I learned in my electronic circuits and signals and systems class that some of the reasons transistors are used is they last longer, are cheaper, smaller, and offer sound that is comparable to tubes. But to get the absolute best sound, a design using vacuum tubes is needed.

 

[Zucchini]

possum,

from what i remember it wasn't older models. It was the new panasonic models(antishock off of course).

and your right about the live!'s noisey output I had a live x-gamer before i dumped it for the turtle beach. The x-gamer was no better then the mx300, but one can forgive the mx300 since it came out so long ago.

 

[OS]

<< But to get the absolute best sound, a design using vacuum tubes is needed. >>



So is this something you are merely told or is it actually quantifiable from the transfer function graphs of a vacuum tube when compared to a transistor? I am told the same thing, but proof/evidence is never given to me in the form of a graph comparison.

As for the output noise on the live, yeah it's there and there is always a certain amount that can never be eliminated. This really isn't a problem for most consumers, only for the most demanding users.

 

[Soccerman]

hmm.. if I ever get some good audio eqpuipment, I'll try that on mine, right now when I turn it (the $10 amplifier we got from a garage sale that sounds alot better then many computer speaker setups!) up to full I get a small amount of hissing, which could be the soundcard..

but I'm glad I wasn't playing music at the time! ouch that would have hurt the ears! I'm using some lower cost Sennheiser headphones..

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

well i for one can't hear what's sooooo wrong about my sblive platinum. I think the sound quality is great. Sure i can hear the hiss, but only if i put my ear next to the speaker, however i DON&quot;T LISTEN TO THE SPEAKERS THAT WAY. I honestly can't even hear the hiss from my appropriate distance because my pc drowns out that noise.

 

[Planktune]

I think the strenth of the sblive is it's compatibility and drivers.
The weakness is it's sound quality. This is due to the cheap digital to analog converters. I think the OEM versions are worse. I would recommend the sblive for a good sound system if only the digital output is used to drive a decent outboard DAC. check fullcompass.com or sweetwater.com. or semi-pro audio. The DACs will set you back about
125+ bucks, but the versatility and value of an independent component is worth it.

 

[Possum]

Well, that vacuum tubes are better than transistors in audio equipment was something I was merely told... but merely told by professors who have had years of experience in the field. Here's a background of my Signals and Systems professor:

http://www.ece.cornell.edu/people/faculty/delchamps/davidfdelchamps.shtml

He explained briefly, at a low level, the reason why transistors weren't as accurate.

 

[velvtelvis]

I was able to get the diamond MX400 for $40, and it sounds better than the live! value, IMHO.

Others have had horrid problems with it, but it's been nice enough to me.

 

[velvtelvis]

I was able to get the diamond MX400 for $40, and it sounds better than the live! value, IMHO.

Others have had horrid problems with it, but it's been nice enough to me.

 

[Leo V]

&quot;As for noise, yeah my live has a fair amount of residual noise, but if I mute everything I'm not using under volume control, most of the hissing and buzzing goes away. As I understand it, it isn't a live specific problem though, I've seen it to some extent on every sound card I've used.&quot;

Believe it or not, my AP2496 on the Promedia 2.1 speakers produces zero hiss up to lethal volume (in analog!) You hold your ear to the speakers, and can't detect a thing, as though it's turned off. The official noise floor is ~100dB much like the SBLive, but its measured noise floor is a real 96dB compared to ~70dB for most consumer cards including the Live. The circuitry and DAC make all the difference.

 

[Rockogre]

I own 3 creative labs sound cards! The sound blaster awe64, which is a good sounding card and then I bought Sound Blaster Live! Value and it sounded better than the AWE64, and finally I bought the Sound Blaster Live! XGammer 5.1 sound card and it rocks It sounds a lot better then the other 2 sound cards that I own! With each new creative labs sound card the sound keeps getting better and better! But that's my opinion! So if you are going to go for a sound card i would go for either the SoundBlaster Live! XGammer 5.1 or I would go with the SoundBlaster Live! Platinum 5.1 .

 

[OS]

<< told by professors who have had years of experience in the field >>



Well, I am inclined to believe him, but professors do make mistakes, sometimes even very simple and obvious ones. I had a calculus prof at berkeley who could not draw the graph of sin^-1(x). He spent a good five minutes in lecture trying to figure it out.

But even if it were true that vacuum tube amps were better than solid state ones, that brings up the question if the difference really is noticeable or not to human ears.




<< Believe it or not, my AP2496 on the Promedia 2.1 speakers produces zero hiss up to lethal volume >>



I believe it, but I also believe that you probably spent alot more than most people would on computer audio equipment It is still noteworthy nonetheless.



<< compared to ~70dB for most consumer cards including the Live. >>



I notice that on the box, the live claims to have a 96db signal to noise ratio, but with the audible hiss when I crank up my stereo, that number on the box can't be right. I wonder if that qualifies as false advertising in any way.

 

[holdencommodore]

The best feature of the Philips cards is QSound's QMSS.
The Aztech PCI 368DSP which I have has the ThunderBird Q3D chip (same as the Seismic Edge). The sound quality is very good, and it produces a very warm tone.
QMSS makes CD's, MP3's, DVD's and DS3D games all sound so much fuller and much more punchy.
I am sure that the Avenger DSP will be much better though. I want to get the Acoustic Edge, but Philips Australia has not brought them here yet

 

[dougjnn]

This thread has attracted a number of knowledgeable audiophiles, who are into good computer audio. That's a real resource.

I am totally open to ditching Creative/Soundblaster.

My thing is it has got to work as well in Win2k in all apps as it does in Win9x.

Can anyone recommend anything better than Soundblaster with the above requirement?