Best single card GTX 280 or ATI 4870x2

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: solofly

Originally posted by: Extelleron
I wouldn't go with the 4870 X2. The performance is not always there, CF isn't as reliable as SLI in general. In addition ATI drivers haven't been the best with the latest games in the last few months.

Had no problems with my tri crossfire config but of course I ain't a blind fanboy that some are...

Crossfire works and it has gotten a lot better, but I don't think you can say that it has quite caught up to SLI in terms of scaling: http://www.guru3d.com/article/...-performance-review/15

As for driver problems.... ATI has had some issues with Far Cry 2 that I have heard about. Otherwise they are pretty good AFAIK. I've never had an ATI card since the X1900XT so I'm not the best one to comment on that.

A few months ago I would have said ATI had the lead in a lot of market segments, but nVidia has cut prices substantially and the newer games seem to be performing well on their hardware. You can now get a GTX 260 Core 216 for the same price or a bit cheaper than an HD 4870 1GB. Is it a good time to be an nVidia shareholder? Definitely not, but it is a good time to be a consumer.

I love how the nVidia people call me an ATI fanboy and the ATI people call me an nVidia fanboy.... 😕

 

[MegaWorks]

Originally posted by: solofly

Originally posted by: Extelleron
I wouldn't go with the 4870 X2. The performance is not always there, CF isn't as reliable as SLI in general. In addition ATI drivers haven't been the best with the latest games in the last few months.

Had no problems with my tri crossfire config but of course I ain't a blind fanboy that some are...

I have a lot of experience with Crossfire and I would easily tell you that the RV670 scale very well for me in CF than the RV770. With my previous setup (4850 CF) I had nothing but problems, it's simply a big pile of monkey crap!

Now I'm an nVidia user after lets see 1..2...3.....6 generations of graphic hardware and I love my GTX 260 core 216 overclocked to the max! 🙂 And I have a nice 9800GT for phyX. I think I'm set for next year, so bring it on! :laugh:

 

[solofly]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
OT: I have the GTX280, but no experience with the 4870X2. There are two people on here that I know of that had both cards, and ended up keeping the GTX280. Correct me if I'm wrong, but N7 and Nitromullet? Possibly could chime in here.

Thanks.

So what that two ended up with nvidia? I ended up with ATI mainly because their drivers have finally caught up with the rest. I already have an outdated 280gtx, its called 8800gtx.

And for the record, I am a fanboy of stability, that's what matters to me most.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: solofly

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
OT: I have the GTX280, but no experience with the 4870X2. There are two people on here that I know of that had both cards, and ended up keeping the GTX280. Correct me if I'm wrong, but N7 and Nitromullet? Possibly could chime in here.

Thanks.

So what that two ended up with nvidia? I ended up with ATI mainly because their drivers have finally caught up with the rest. I already have an outdated 280gtx, its called 8800gtx.

In a debate over whether the best single card gaming experience is a GTX280 single GPU or a 4870X2 "Crossfire on a Card" end user experiences would seem particularly valuable to me.

I've "known" n7 and nitromullet for years, and don't think the cost of the X2s factored into their decision to stick with the GTX280s. Others I know of who have dumped the 4870X2 include Blacklash of Rage3d who cited problems with microstutter and minimum fps in MMORGS and Sentry2 here.

The "Best Single Card" is a very user specific question, and when one of the cards in question is a multi GPU rig many other factors have to be considered. Some people just don't like the baggage that comes along with multi GPU and for them pointing at benches and saying "See! The X2 is 35% faster at those games!" doesn't cut it because they don't want to wait for profiles, rename executables, deal with microstutter, deal with the added power/heat, etc..

I don't think there's anything "fanboy" about saying you don't prefer multicard, any more than it's "fanboy" to say you do. Both have their pros and cons.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: solofly

Originally posted by: Extelleron
I wouldn't go with the 4870 X2. The performance is not always there, CF isn't as reliable as SLI in general. In addition ATI drivers haven't been the best with the latest games in the last few months.

Had no problems with my tri crossfire config but of course I ain't a blind fanboy that some are...

😕

How does calling this guy a fanboy relate to the topic or help the forum?

i dunno

how?

. . . and how does drawing attention to it relate to the topic or help the forum?
😕

if you are asking me to guess, i would say that Solofly made a general comment that was timed so as to appear it was specific
- now as to the poster before him, his comments would hold weight only/especially if he had recent experience with X2 and the last couple of sets of ATi drivers

i can only say that i did have some problems with X2 - for example the textures in WoW flash when details are upped - and this is Cat 8-11. It was very annoying and i dropped back to a single 4870 which ran WoW fine. And issues with FC2 - but not for X2 which ran it better than my chug-chug 4870.

it boils down to this [imo]

what games the OP plays and how patient he is for fixes when issues happen

In a debate over whether the best single card gaming experience is a GTX280 single GPU or a 4870X2 "Crossfire on a Card" end user experiences would seem particularly valuable to me.

I've "known" n7 and nitromullet for years, and don't think the cost of the X2s factored into their decision to stick with the GTX280s. Others I know of who have dumped the 4870X2 include Blacklash of Rage3d who cited problems with microstutter and minimum fps in MMORGS and Sentry2 here.

i note how you selectively pick your examples also

i dumped GTX280 out of my case for my general game play and i prefer the faster X2 in MOST situations
--but then i also DUMP my X2 for GTX280 when the situation calls for it; my PC only requires a reboot to switch over


the X2 is generally faster than the 280; and the rare times that X2 does not scale, a single 4870/1gb is not a bad card to be "stuck" with

 

[AmberClad]

Let's steer this conversation away from all the talk about "fanboys" please -- it doesn't add anything to the discussion. That goes for everyone...

- AmberClad

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
The HD4870X2 will be the fastest most of the time. But then again, a GTX280 costs $355 AR, a HD4870X2 costs $470 AR. Pretty big price difference.

There is also this card, but you'd have to jump on it right now: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814150330

I've seen reviews of it being withing 1% of the gtx280's performance. For $100 less, that's a steal. If I could buy this card in Holland for 250 euro's, I'd sell my HD4850's and jump on it.

That card is still available, and it would definitely be faster at stock than a gtx 280 at 19x12. Fantastic deal for a gtx 260 - 216.

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: solofly

Originally posted by: Extelleron
I wouldn't go with the 4870 X2. The performance is not always there, CF isn't as reliable as SLI in general. In addition ATI drivers haven't been the best with the latest games in the last few months.

Had no problems with my tri crossfire config but of course I ain't a blind fanboy that some are...

Pssssst..... Did you know, that more than usually, Extelleron favors ATI? At least that is the perception I get when I read his postings. I was actually surprised to see his post above. He has every right to his preference, as does anyone, but I'd just thought you'd like to know who you were insinuating was a fanboy. So now you know.

OT: I have the GTX280, but no experience with the 4870X2. There are two people on here that I know of that had both cards, and ended up keeping the GTX280. Correct me if I'm wrong, but N7 and Nitromullet? Possibly could chime in here.

Thanks.

that was pretty funny for somebody to accuse extelleron of being an nvidia fanboy. Hmmmm, I wonder if somebody just looked at the rig in his sig...

 

[solofly]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
that was pretty funny for somebody to accuse extelleron of being an nvidia fanboy. Hmmmm, I wonder if somebody just looked at the rig in his sig...

The topic of this thread states best single card, to me that indicates the fastest and like Apponin said and I quote...

i dumped GTX280 out of my case for my general game play and i prefer the faster X2 in MOST situations

And that's the bottom line, like it or not and if anybody says otherwise has to be questioned...

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: solofly

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
that was pretty funny for somebody to accuse extelleron of being an nvidia fanboy. Hmmmm, I wonder if somebody just looked at the rig in his sig...

The topic of this thread states best single card, to me that indicates the fastest and like Apponin said and I quote...

i dumped GTX280 out of my case for my general game play and i prefer the faster X2 in MOST situations

And that's the bottom line, like it or not and if anybody says otherwise has to be questioned...

not the last word certainly; you will never get that here
--for example, if i played WoW a LOT, i'd want 280 😛
- for FC2, probably - especially a month ago

it depends on the OP and a very specific need/want situation; and it he absolutely requires as much detail and filtering as possisble
- specifically, if he demands brand new games to run well ooB on day 1, then the gtx280 is the card i'd recommend

Also if he is incredibly sensitive to microstutter, i'd also suggest gtx280; but it appears to be minimized over regular CF, and is not an issue with most

 

[solofly]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: solofly

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
that was pretty funny for somebody to accuse extelleron of being an nvidia fanboy. Hmmmm, I wonder if somebody just looked at the rig in his sig...

The topic of this thread states best single card, to me that indicates the fastest and like Apponin said and I quote...

i dumped GTX280 out of my case for my general game play and i prefer the faster X2 in MOST situations

And that's the bottom line, like it or not and if anybody says otherwise has to be questioned...

not the last word certainly; you will never get that here
--for example, if i played WoW a LOT, i'd want 280 😛
- for FC2, probably - especially a month ago

it depends on the OP and a very specific need/want situation; and it he absolutely requires as much detail and filtering as possisble
- specifically, if he demands brand new games to run well ooB on day 1, then the gtx280 is the card i'd recommend

Also if he is incredibly sensitive to microstutter, i'd also suggest gtx280; but it appears to be minimized over regular CF, and is not an issue with most

A game itself goes through number of fixes/patches, I could care less about day 1...😉

 

[apoppin]

A game itself goes through number of fixes/patches, I could care less about day 1...

That is why you have ATi in your main rig

You must realize that some gamers have other very different priorities and they might pick Nvidia as the result of sound reasoning on what they like

i just happen to have the best of both worlds atM .. i recognize and appreciate that fact

 

[uclaLabrat]

What about at 2560x1600? Slightly OT, but does the 4870X2 really begin to stretch its legs at that res? I"m hoping, because I have one and a Samsung 305T on the way. When I researched it about a month ago, it seemed like a no-brainer.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: uclaLabrat
What about at 2560x1600? Slightly OT, but does the 4870X2 really begin to stretch its legs at that res? I"m hoping, because I have one and a Samsung 305T on the way. When I researched it about a month ago, it seemed like a no-brainer.

Definitely, 2560x1600 is where the HD 4870 X2 is strongest versus the GTX 280. Unless you are looking for a multi-card solution the 4870 X2 is your choice for that res.

Throw in SLI configurations and the story changes, but unless you are going for a Core i7 setup that's not really an option.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
The HD4870X2 will be the fastest most of the time. But then again, a GTX280 costs $355 AR, a HD4870X2 costs $470 AR. Pretty big price difference.

There is also this card, but you'd have to jump on it right now: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814150330

I've seen reviews of it being withing 1% of the gtx280's performance. For $100 less, that's a steal. If I could buy this card in Holland for 250 euro's, I'd sell my HD4850's and jump on it.

That card is still available, and it would definitely be faster at stock than a gtx 280 at 19x12. Fantastic deal for a gtx 260 - 216.

Until you overclock the GTX280 and it's no contest anymore.

The XTX Black Edition is not stock, and it's not faster than a GTX280 at your specified resoltion. Check reviews. Besides, the GTX280 has factory overclocked cards too.

I myself have been over this many times. Thinking what to do if I'm not happy with my 512MB 4870 card. Really, I think it might be enough for me with a new monitor that will run 1900x1200, but I am not going to rule out the possibility that I will want more than this card can give me. I'm eyeing a GTX280 because I would like to avoid CF, SLI and scaling issues altogether. It's something I want to avoid if I can. That is all dependant on me doing some benchmarks in my games and deciding if I'm happy with what the 512MB 4870 can give me. If not, then upgrade.

 

[palladium]

I have a friend who wants to get a new card for his 24 inch monitor, he is contemplating between GTX280 and 4870X2. He plays Company of Heroes, Crysis and GRID, as well as older games ( Red Alert 2, DoTa), but he intends to get Red Alert 3 soon. After reading these posts, my understanding is that the 4870X2 is faster most of the time, but has some caveats ( microstuttering, not scaling well, more prone to driver issues) compared to the GTX280, but neither me nor him can weigh out which is more important ( GTX seem to be able to max out these games save Crysis at 19x12 ; AFAIK driver issues are quite rare and generally CF scales reasonably well). Given that in NZ both cards cost the same after taking into account shipping etc , which would you guys recommend? ( he has a Q9550 @3.2GHz, 8GB RAM, does not have a SLI-capable board)

Thanks

 

[MarcVenice]

If both cost the same, I'd go for the HD4870X2. It's faster and probably has longer longevity as well. It's a trade off between the driver 'problems' but those aren't that big and often get fixed quite fast. Micro-stuttering is something people scream and yell about, but 90% of the people who own cf-ed or sli-ed cards don't even notice it. Just hope your friend doesn't notice it either.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: solofly

i dumped GTX280 out of my case for my general game play and i prefer the faster X2 in MOST situations

And that's the bottom line, like it or not and if anybody says otherwise has to be questioned...

Then let the questions begin:

Video Moderators BFG10K and n7:

Could you please tell Solofly/the forum why you won't use any Crossfire or SLi based solution?

My guess as to their response:

1. Microstutter
2. AFR lag
3. variable scaling
4. uneven support for vsych and triple buffering
5. waiting for profiles with CF
6. power requirements
7. additional heat output

In a nutshell, no matter what ATi tells us is the "right" way to achieve higher performance, multi GPU solutions at this point in time involve several factors that are less desirable than single GPU solutions.

Which does not make them "bad", but does mean if someone prefers not to use them they may have valid reasons. (and don't need to be "questioned" or "doubted")

I've had more experience with multi GPU configs than probably anyone on this board, I have seen all of the above at one time or another. (except waiting for profiles)

Multi GPU has it's place, it also has it's idiosyncrasies. JHH was right when he said it's always better to achieve a level of performance with one GPU, because none of the above exist with one.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: solofly
So what that two ended up with nvidia? I ended up with ATI mainly because their drivers have finally caught up with the rest. I already have an outdated 280gtx, its called 8800gtx.

And for the record, I am a fanboy of stability, that's what matters to me most.

Actually if you look around, there's a few that have tried the 4870X2 and ended up going back to single GPU or Nvidia multi-GPU. A few have chimed in here, Nitromullet, SteelSix, Sentry2....should be another 40 or so around here......

I do find it a bit funny that you claim to be a fanboy of stability, but later say you don't care about games on Day 1? It looks as if you just got your X2, congrats, but instead of calling everyone an Nvidia fanboy if they don't recommend the 4870X2, why not see if their comments are justified after spending some time with your new card first?

I'd also recommend those interested in multi-GPU or X2 to read over some of the recent comments by Derek and Anand which reiterate and emphasize the problems one might encounter with multi-GPU or poor driver support with new titles. I'd also pay close attention to the comments by people who have actually tried multi-GPU set-ups instead of those who blindly recommend it as a viable alternative to high-end performance.

Originally posted by: apoppin
Well, i really like GTX280 .. when 4870/1GB just doesn't make it, the 280 will often ofter a better gaming experience.

However, i would not spend a lot of money switching out a 4870/1GB for a GTX280. That is why the X2 is not such a bad idea - if you are "stuck" with one card, a [single] 4870/1GB is not a bad card to be playing on .. and you always know the next month [after the next] usually brings a fix for new games .. if you must play the LATEST game on Day 1, i would consider 280GTX over an X2

me .. i just switch them in and out .. FC2 is dedicated for playing on my 280GTX [x2 is OK; 4870 sux for FC2 without a frame rate cap]
- i have 2 HDs set up identically; so it is literally switch the video cards out, boot with the appropriate HD and start playing; no lost time and no more New Game Issues
--no compromise 😛

You're running X3 though aren't you? It sounds as if your perspective is a bit skewed as your frame of reference is going to be 3 GPU to 1, but besides that point, I think its a bit ridiculous to suggest swapping high end vendor solutions as a reasonable solution to X2 problems.

Also, you have compromised if you're willing to put up with the additional expense of purchasing and maintaining high end solutions from both camps in order to achieve a premium gaming experience.

I'd also agree with Nitromullet's assessment that there isn't anything a single GTX 280 struggles with at 1920 and 4xAA outside of Crysis. I've also heard Clear Sky DX10 is very demanding, I just haven't bothered to pick it up as I never cared for the first title.

 

[adairusmc]

Originally posted by: apoppin


i am ok with 4870x3

Same here. :beer:

No problems with my x3 setup so far.

 

[solofly]

Originally posted by: chizow
I do find it a bit funny that you claim to be a fanboy of stability, but later say you don't care about games on Day 1?

That is correct. I rather wait a bit than deal with issues such as graphic corruption or whatever. I have 2 year old games that nvidia still can't get it right, I believe I demonstrated that in another thread.

It looks as if you just got your X2, congrats,

Thank you very much.

but instead of calling everyone an Nvidia fanboy if they don't recommend the 4870X2, why not see if their comments are justified after spending some time with your new card first?

I don't see anything wrong with a fanboy word. Everybody feels strong about something in life, it's human nature.

I'd also recommend those interested in multi-GPU or X2 to read over some of the recent comments by Derek and Anand which reiterate and emphasize the problems one might encounter with multi-GPU or poor driver support with new titles. I'd also pay close attention to the comments by people who have actually tried multi-GPU set-ups instead of those who blindly recommend it as a viable alternative to high-end performance.

This will be my 5th multi-gpu config (3 sli and 2 xfire) and I'm aware of everything there is to know, thankfully it doesn't affect me.

Once again, HD4870X2 has more horse power than 280GTX and that is a fact...

 

[AmberClad]

From the Video Forum guidelines:

Zero personal attacks (no matter the degree).

No baiting other members into an altercation.

Now, I don't particularly care if someone refers to himself as a "fanboy of stability", but calling someone else a fanboy of one company or another, in that context, can easily be construed as both a personal attack and potential flamebait. Neither of which are permitted in this subforum.

- AmberClad

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: solofly
That is correct. I rather wait a bit than deal with issues such as graphic corruption or whatever. I have 2 year old games that nvidia still can't get it right, I believe I demonstrated that in another thread.

This will be my 5th multi-gpu config (3 sli and 2 xfire) and I'm aware of everything there is to know, thankfully it doesn't affect me.

At the same time you need to acknowledge your views are probably in the minority, and that people who are willing to spend on bleeding edge hardware are doing so in order to "dominate" the latest and greatest games. It also happens to be the demographic most vulnerable to multi-GPU driver problems. Just because you choose a buying pattern that may lower your exposure to driver issues doesn't make them any less significant.

Also, I'm curious about your statements about not having any problems with Crossfire X3 with 4850s. Did you try running the Cat 8.11s with them? It seems CF + 8.11 + Vista 64 resulted in a pervasive BSOD problem. Did you not experience it at all?

I don't see anything wrong with a fanboy word. Everybody feels strong about something in life, it's human nature.

I don't really care about the word choice, as it typically achieves the opposite of the intended purpose as it conveys more a sense of bias by the one using the term rather than the one its directed at. My problem is you instantly jumping to that conclusion after someone pointed out some potential problems inherent with multi-GPU as to why they would prefer a single GTX 280 over a 4870X2.

Once again, HD4870X2 has more horse power than 280GTX and that is a fact...

Except in cases it doesn't scale or has driver issues etc. etc. etc. and performs worst than the GTX 280.

Certainly seems like valid reasons for people to recommend a single GPU solution like the GTX 280 over a more expensive multi-GPU set-up like the 4870X2.

 

[solofly]

Originally posted by: chizow
Certainly seems like valid reasons for people to recommend a single GPU solution like the GTX 280 over a more expensive multi-GPU set-up like the 4870X2.

Valid it is but the question is, is 280GTX alone powerful enough, not to me it isn't. If only the greedy, dishonest, arrogant nvidia allowed multi-gpu on Intel platforms, I would have had the power of a 280GTX 2 years ago, that is why they never got a penny out of me. (for the high end cards i mean) 🙂

 

[solofly]

Originally posted by: AmberClad
From the Video Forum guidelines:

Zero personal attacks (no matter the degree).

No baiting other members into an altercation.

Now, I don't particularly care if someone refers to himself as a "fanboy of stability", but calling someone else a fanboy of one company or another, in that context, can easily be construed as both a personal attack and potential flamebait. Neither of which are permitted in this subforum.

- AmberClad

I can comply no problem but if anybody calls me a fanboy of whatever, I would like no interference from you mods pls. I'll say it again, eveyone of us is a fanboy and there is nothing wrong with it... Now if someone calls me a troll or an asshole, well then watch out...😉