Best pickup truck under $5,000?

[Wuzup101]

Trailer? I move refrigerators, mattresses, bricks and gravel with my first gen Insight, pay insurance and registration on only one vehicle, and still get more than 50mpg while doing this.

I have an F150 parked behind it which is currently up on Craigslist.

How far over the payload capacity of the insight are you? From a quick google search, the gen 1 insight has NO towing capacity and like 350-400lbs of payload (occupants + cargo). You can barely (legally) carry 2 people and a backpack or two, let alone a refrigerator or load of gravel/bricks on a trailer. To put that in perspective, if you weigh 100lbs, your insight is capable of carrying approximately 55 bricks. Stacked nicely, that's about 2 cubic feet of bricks. So I'm not sure why you need a trailer. Obviously furniture / appliances are much less dense than building materials. You can probably fit 5 refrigerators worth of weight in bricks in your insight's hatch.

I agree with the trailer option if you have a vehicle that's designed to handle it, but a first gen insight isn't that vehicle (2250lb gvwr/gcwr). Just because you can physically put a hitch on it and it hasn't broken yet doesn't mean it's a good (or safe) idea. That's the equivalent of putting a 15,000lb 5th wheel / gooseneck on your F-150. Yeah it probably won't break it immediately, but there is a much higher chance that it will overwhelm the vehicle at some point and cause an accident.

Edit: note that I do agree with not buying a truck simply to use occasionally for hauling vs either getting a trailer (if you have a reasonable tow vehicle) or having stuff delivered. Despite that, I do (as of a few weeks ago) daily drive a truck.

 

[Yuriman]

I suspect the main reason the Insight has such a low rated cargo capacity is a combination of the rear deck being thin aluminum over the hybrid systems box (you shouldn't put any dense, heavy objects in it), combined with relatively soft rear suspension which can bottom out over bumps with just a few hundred pounds in the rear. Many put stiffer rear springs in these.

I'm not suggesting anyone else do this, but I pulled a trailer with the better part of a ton in it nearly 3000 miles through the Appalachians on a road trip, and the car handled and braked fine. I took it easy for the first day (kept speeds 55-60 and slowed down a lot for turns / bumps) but found I could have confidence in it. The trick was in balancing the trailer really well, and keeping the tongue weight to around 75lbs, or around 5% of the trailer's weight. Having more tongue weight makes having a poorly balanced trailer more forgiving.

Anyway, many vehicles which do not have tow ratings in the US have them in Europe and Asia. From what I've gathered, it's largely because our laws here favor high tongue weights relative to the total mass being towed, which gives better dynamic stability at freeway speeds - we have higher speed limits and tow more frequently at those speeds. If you're just pulling around town you're often better off with less tongue weight, and just need to make sure you can stop safely. High tongue weights on smaller vehicles tends to lift the nose and causes a much larger forward weight shift when stopping, which causes other issues.

 

[Thebobo]

When I was growing up all the rednecks drove F 150s. They maybe rednecks but they choose damn good tucks. Hippie chasers!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLAYw0vM-bw

 

[snoopy7548]

Relating to OP... I'm in the market for a new car with better cargo space/usability than what I have now, and I had the idea of buying a used truck and Miata rather than just one car. Get the best of both worlds - raw practicality with 4WD for the snow, and a fun daily driver that doesn't guzzle gas. Even though I have a garage, and the money I'd be saving would allow me to bump it out to add a second port, I've realized it's just not worth it.

Really, how often are you going to need a truck to haul things, especially when you live in apartment in the bay area? It's not like you're loading up on mulch or lumber every weekend. Are you going to be changing your furniture often enough to justify this?

With a second car comes increased insurance costs, increased maintenance costs, double excise tax payments, additional yearly inspection, more car washes, and you'll be paying more for parking if you don't have a second space. All for something that will likely sit unused 90% of the time. Cities need less cars, not more.

A co-worker of mine suggested a Hyundai Veloster Turbo R-Spec. I'm not interested in one, but for OP it would be a good fit. Quick, fun car to drive with decent cargo space. You might not be able to fit a full size couch in it, but again, how often are you going to be replacing your furniture?

Or you could sell your i35i and upgrade to an x3.

Or save your money and buy a house so you can have all the toys you want for all the projects your heart desires.

 

[Wuzup101]

I suspect the main reason the Insight has such a low rated cargo capacity is a combination of the rear deck being thin aluminum over the hybrid systems box (you shouldn't put any dense, heavy objects in it), combined with relatively soft rear suspension which can bottom out over bumps with just a few hundred pounds in the rear. Many put stiffer rear springs in these.

Yeah - it doesn't have a high cargo capacity because that goes against what it was designed for (great gas mileage). It's a small commuter car (I'm a fan of them - and I always follow your posts when I see them). That being said, 350-400 ish lbs of capacity is what I would expect for a vehicle that is primarily designed to carry 2 people and a small amount of luggage (especially given it's age). It has springs that are designed to handle the weight of the car itself + occupants, fuel, and a bit of cargo. I recently sold my 2015 corvette and that had a curb weight of around 3400 with a gvwr of just under 4k. Enough for two people and probably as much cargo as you could put under the hatch (but not as many bricks as you could put under the hatch).

I'm not suggesting anyone else do this, but I pulled a trailer with the better part of a ton in it nearly 3000 miles through the Appalachians on a road trip, and the car handled and braked fine. I took it easy for the first day (kept speeds 55-60 and slowed down a lot for turns / bumps) but found I could have confidence in it. The trick was in balancing the trailer really well, and keeping the tongue weight to around 75lbs, or around 5% of the trailer's weight. Having more tongue weight makes having a poorly balanced trailer more forgiving.

How many times did you have to panic stop because a deer/child/etc ran in front of you during the trip? How many times did you have to swerve into another lane to avoid something that fell off the back of a vehicle ahead of you? If you just putted around, kept a safe following distance, etc... you are likely to have no problems. It's in emergency situations where you will have issues doubling the gcwr of your vehicle (which is essentially what you were doing if you were towing almost a ton). How fast did you decide to go after the first day?

I agree that balancing a trailer properly is very important while towing; however, 5% tongue weight is very light. You generally have to move the center of gravity of the trailer too far back to get to 5% tongue. Do you use any sort of weight distributing hitch? Do you have any sort of trailer breaks? If memory serves you have a harbor freight type trailer correct?

Anyway, many vehicles which do not have tow ratings in the US have them in Europe and Asia. From what I've gathered, it's largely because our laws here favor high tongue weights relative to the total mass being towed, which gives better dynamic stability at freeway speeds - we have higher speed limits and tow more frequently at those speeds. If you're just pulling around town you're often better off with less tongue weight, and just need to make sure you can stop safely. High tongue weights on smaller vehicles tends to lift the nose and causes a much larger forward weight shift when stopping, which causes other issues.

I agree with this, but in many of those countries there are also legal restrictions on how heavy your trailer can be with certain types of license and how fast you can go. You are much less likely to have issues with a low tongue weight when you are towing at low speeds. Most of our states (California is the only one that I know of) do not have a max speed w/ trailer (other than the posted speed limit). The only time you need a special endorsement is over 26,000lbs (which in many states requires a CDL). 26,000lbs gcwr is more than you are towing with anything but a 3/4 ton+ truck.

In the end, I believe fruitloops has a bmw 335i which is more than capable of towing a small trailer if you look at the euro spec models that have optional factory tow hitches (especially given California speed restrictions on towing). That being said, do you really want fruitloops towing something?

 

[Yuriman]

Yeah - it doesn't have a high cargo capacity because that goes against what it was designed for (great gas mileage). It's a small commuter car (I'm a fan of them - and I always follow your posts when I see them). That being said, 350-400 ish lbs of capacity is what I would expect for a vehicle that is primarily designed to carry 2 people and a small amount of luggage (especially given it's age). It has springs that are designed to handle the weight of the car itself + occupants, fuel, and a bit of cargo. I recently sold my 2015 corvette and that had a curb weight of around 3400 with a gvwr of just under 4k. Enough for two people and probably as much cargo as you could put under the hatch (but not as many bricks as you could put under the hatch).

Funny thing is, adding weight seems to do almost nothing to fuel economy. 500lbs in hatch and I still get the same 100-110mpg @ 50mph, or 75-80mpg at 65mph. The few times I've needed to move something too big to fit in the hatch (e.g. 8 truck tires and rims), simply having the hatch open cut me down to ~45mpg at 50.

How many times did you have to panic stop because a deer/child/etc ran in front of you during the trip? How many times did you have to swerve into another lane to avoid something that fell off the back of a vehicle ahead of you? If you just putted around, kept a safe following distance, etc... you are likely to have no problems. It's in emergency situations where you will have issues doubling the gcwr of your vehicle (which is essentially what you were doing if you were towing almost a ton). How fast did you decide to go after the first day?

It was a few years back but I recall at least two emergency stops and one swerve. With that much weight in the back, and the short wheel base of the trailer, I felt the rebound tug the back of the car, but it was well within the limits of traction. Had the roads been wet, it probably would have been another story, but I'm smart enough to know when and when not to try that.

As for the emergency stops, one was in town when a young driver decided to stop quickly at a yellow light, and the other was when traffic stopped suddenly on the highway, which were fine. I also saw no fade when braking down the nearly 7000ft Clingman's Done. The brakes were great, but it will vary from car to car, and this is something I'd take very seriously.

I agree that balancing a trailer properly is very important while towing; however, 5% tongue weight is very light. You generally have to move the center of gravity of the trailer too far back to get to 5% tongue. Do you use any sort of weight distributing hitch? Do you have any sort of trailer breaks? If memory serves you have a harbor freight type trailer correct?

I agree with this, but in many of those countries there are also legal restrictions on how heavy your trailer can be with certain types of license and how fast you can go. You are much less likely to have issues with a low tongue weight when you are towing at low speeds. Most of our states (California is the only one that I know of) do not have a max speed w/ trailer (other than the posted speed limit). The only time you need a special endorsement is over 26,000lbs (which in many states requires a CDL). 26,000lbs gcwr is more than you are towing with anything but a 3/4 ton+ truck.

Yes, a harbor freight type, no brakes, and it was a standard 1 1/4" hitch. I used several mount points under the car to distribute the load, mostly because it's all aluminum.

At the start I kept speeds around 55, but in the 2nd and 3rd days I was generally targeting 65, with 70-75 occasionally when coasting downhill.

In the end, I believe fruitloops has a bmw 335i which is more than capable of towing a small trailer if you look at the euro spec models that have optional factory tow hitches (especially given California speed restrictions on towing). That being said, do you really want fruitloops towing something?

I guess this is the crux of it. We have laws in place that have a lot of very conservative safety margins built in, because in this country, nobody should be personally responsible for the results of their choices and actions so long as it's legal.

 

[JCH13]

Yuriman,

At the end of the day you've made a decision counter-indicated by the team of engineers who designed and tested that car. A decision that endangers the lives of the people around you. I would not feel comfortable with the potential to kill someone because I thought I was "smart enough" to try something dangerous and get away with it. More importantly the people around you are unaware of the compromises you have made and have made no decision to buy into the risks you're imposing unilaterally. It does not seem ethical to me.

 

[Yuriman]

Yuriman,

At the end of the day you've made a decision counter-indicated by the team of engineers who designed and tested that car. A decision that endangers the lives of the people around you. I would not feel comfortable with the potential to kill someone because I thought I was "smart enough" to try something dangerous and get away with it. More importantly the people around you are unaware of the compromises you have made and have made no decision to buy into the risks you're imposing unilaterally. It does not seem ethical to me.

Fair, so get a car with a tow rating. I mostly use my trailer for moving appliances around town at <35mph where it's a non-issue.

 

[JCH13]

Fair, so get a car with a tow rating. I mostly use my trailer for moving appliances around town at <35mph where it's a non-issue.

What analysis or testing have you completed to show that towing an appliance at 35mph is a non issue? To what standards did you compare the results?

Adding any weight to your car increases its stopping distance proportionally because you do not have trailer brakes. Using published values I extrapolated your 35-0 stopping distance as 45ft. If you have 500lbs being towed that adds about 20% to your stopping distance. It's not a "non-issue" as you nonchalantly describe.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

Fair, so get a car with a tow rating. I mostly use my trailer for moving appliances around town at <35mph where it's a non-issue.

As long as nothing happens...... it always amazes me how folks will take risks and cross their fingers. If something were to happen it would be unlikely that an insurance company would cover it. You have managed to derail the OP's thread on best pickup for $5k. Well done.

Another F-150 vote. Plentiful, inexpensive, parts are cheap, and any mechanic anywhere can work on it.

 

[Yuriman]

What analysis or testing have you completed to show that towing an appliance at 35mph is a non issue? To what standards did you compare the results?

Adding any weight to your car increases its stopping distance proportionally because you do not have trailer brakes. Using published values I extrapolated your 35-0 stopping distance as 45ft. If you have 500lbs being towed that adds about 20% to your stopping distance. It's not a "non-issue" as you nonchalantly describe.

My apologies for derailing. I'll be more considerate of that in the future.

I'd like to ask though, what vehicle, tow or cargo rated or not, doesn't have increased stopping distance when you put something in the hatch, bed, or brakeless trailer? That seems to be irrelevant. The issue is that I'm towing with a vehicle which lacks a tow rating.

 

[JCH13]

My apologies for derailing. I'll be more considerate of that in the future.

I'd like to ask though, what vehicle, tow or cargo rated or not, doesn't have increased stopping distance when you put something in the hatch, bed, or brakeless trailer? That seems to be irrelevant. The issue is that I'm towing with a vehicle which lacks a tow rating.

Avoiding hand-waving arguments about weight balance and such, consider the following (round numbers):

Honda Insight: 1,900lb curb weight, 181ft 70-0 braking distance

2016 F150: 4,900lb curb weight, 170ft 70-0 braking distance

Using first-principles of dynamics to approximate braking performance change with a 500lb un-braked trailer:

Insight: (1900+500)/(1900) = 1.26, so a 126% of the unladen braking distance, or a 26% increase

F150: (4900+500)/(4900) = 1.10, so 110% of the unladen braking disance, or a 10% increase

Larger vehicles are impacted less by the additional mass of a trailer, and a pickup truck is likely to do even better than that because it has brakes sized to take advantage of the extra tongue weight from a trailer under braking. The Insight assuredly does not.

Bringing actual braking distances into it:

Insight: (1900+500)/(1900)*181ft*(35^2/70^2) = 57ft (unladen is 45ft or so, so an increase of 12ft)

F150: (4900+500)/(4900)*170ft*(35^2/70^2) = 46.8ft (barely more than the unladen Insight)

So it's more than just 'towing without a tow rating' in my mind, although that's certainly foremost. The small insight has small brakes and is simply not designed to cope with the added mass of a trailer and cargo. Furthermore, if the structure was never designed to accept a tow hitch, how do you know that the mounting points are strong enough to last over time? Is the trailer hitch bolted into some of the aluminum structure? If so, do you know how you're impacting the fatigue life of that material? Are you introducing a galvanic corrosion reaction that the parts weren't intended to see?