Best Paging File / Virtual Memory Size for me

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pallejr

Senior member
Apr 8, 2007
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It is true that strange things can happen, if an application takes for granted that memory is always available. And yes, I fully agree that it is good to have the oppunity to page stuff out. But that was not how this discussion started. You said:

I would think that some programs DO require the Page File to work properly.
In my translation that meant: no matter how much free ram there is, if no paging file is present > exit program
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
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why not just look at the PF usage performance tab in the task manager

Because that has nothing to do with actual pagefile usage. It's the system's commit charge, not how much pagefile is currently in use.

The only way I see that could be true, is if there is no more available ram.

That's the way it should work in theory but not quite the way it works out in reality.

When I decided to "Disable paging executive" in my laptop's registry, the computer would freeze with the 100% RAM use (2GB) while using Adobe Reader.

That's a separate issue. Disable paging executive just disables the kernel's ability to evict kernel code from memory, so unused drivers that sit idle can't be removed and will just waste that memory. It doesn't help performance and just ends up wasting a few megs of memory.

EDIT: See, I understand it like if it was a Dam, and to control the water level, you might have to let some thru the dam, so it doesn't overflow.

Execpt that the pagefile is one of a few repositories for "water" and is only used to store certain types of "water".

Just FYI, this is my current memory usage according to Everest:

Luckily virtual memory doesn't really have any correlation to pagefile usage, so you can have TBs of VM allocated without ever touching your pagefile. Look at your pagefile usage, 429M was the peak.

what do u mean you would need a lot of ram for that can someone give a PF noob the general on how page file relates to actual physical ram? heres mine from everest 2007:

It doesn't relate to physical memory at all, it's just a temporary holding place for data. And only for data that has no backing store, if data in memory is already associated with a file (i.e. mmap()'d file, executable, shared library, etc) then the VM will just evict the data from memory when it has to since it can page the data back in from whatever file it got it from in the first place.

Most likely, the computer will freeze, and you will have to clear the RAM - reboot!

If your OS is smart it won't, for example on Linux when memory gets critically low it kills a process to free up memory. I don't believe Windows has a facility like that but if you wait long enough the paging storm will usually finish, probably because the program wanting all of that memory will crash since memory allocations started to fail, and you'll be able to use the machine again. And that can easily happen even with a pagefile if a process goes nuts or you grossly underestimate your memory requirements but it would still be foolish to run without one.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
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Originally posted by: JustaGeek
Originally posted by: blackangst1
I also have 4 gigs of memory and I have my pagefile turned off. :p

I would think that some programs DO require the Page File to work properly.

Am I wrong...? :confused:

None of the programs I use *shrug*
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: JustaGeek
I have finally found some articles:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314482

http://www.maximumpcguides.com...ws-vistas-paging-file/

"Things to Know

Before you start messing with your computer?s paging file there are things you need to understand so you don?t break your computer.

Your computer must have a paging file. Windows Vista and most software rely on the paging file even though your computer has plenty of memory.

The recommended size of the paging file is 1.5 to 3 times the amount of RAM you have.
If you move the paging file, it should always be moved to a different physical hard drive.

Never use a separate partition on the same hard drive as the C: drive. This will slow your computer down.

You can have 2 paging files. Each paging file must be on different physical hard drives though. An example would be a paging file on your C: and E: drives. "



EDIT: "of memory", not "or memory".


Im honestly not trying to argue, but how is it I run just fine with PF turned off?
 

JustaGeek

Platinum Member
Jan 27, 2007
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"Disable paging executve" just demonstrated to me what can happen if the system (Vista HP x86) is unable to page files that it requires to be paged. It just froze.

I found another Microsoft article on the subject:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/889654


And another "hear-say" that I remember installing one of the games, the manual stated the it required tha page file to be present. I do not remember the game title though :p

Well, to put an end to all the speculations, someone with ex. Photoshop should disable the Paging File (set to None) and tell us what happens!

Sorry - I won't. I strongly believe that it is required, and do not want to tamper with my perfectly stable Ultimate x64 installation. ;)

 

LOUISSSSS

Diamond Member
Dec 5, 2005
8,770
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haha this thread would be great! if i knew what u guys were talking about, but go ahead i won't interrup. i set my PF on auto and will report back on new everest readings when i get my 2nd set of 2 x 1gb
 

pallejr

Senior member
Apr 8, 2007
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PF = you (never) run out of memory, because your harddrive is so big. Go to the extreme, and you can have something like 256 terabytes of "harddrive" ram available to you
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
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PF = you (never) run out of memory, because your harddrive is so big. Go to the extreme, and you can have something like 256 terabytes of "harddrive" ram available to you

Not true because by default there is a ceiling on how big Windows will let your pagefile grow to and I believe with XP and earlier you're limited to 4G per pagefile anyway. You can have multiple 4G pagefiles but you'd have to setup the others before the failure which isn't too likely.
 

PepperBreath

Senior member
Sep 5, 2001
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Originally posted by: JustaGeekThe only gain might be accomplished by moving the paging file from the System Drive, but it would have to be moved to another Physical Drive, not just another partition on the same drive, if any performance improvements are to be observed.

Just to nitpick but if you have the old PATA drives still, this won't help unless the paging file is on a second channel, not just another drive slaved to the primary drive.
 

JustaGeek

Platinum Member
Jan 27, 2007
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Originally posted by: PepperBreath
Originally posted by: JustaGeekThe only gain might be accomplished by moving the paging file from the System Drive, but it would have to be moved to another Physical Drive, not just another partition on the same drive, if any performance improvements are to be observed.

Just to nitpick but if you have the old PATA drives still, this won't help unless the paging file is on a second channel, not just another drive slaved to the primary drive.

Hmmm... That sounds like a subject for another discussion... :confused:

Are you absolutely sure that 80-pin PATA cable/interface suffers from crosstalk...?

Haven't found anything that would suggest that there is a performance hit, that's why the 80-pin cables have been introduced - to reduce it.

 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
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In PAE mode, you can set each pagefile to 16TB. And you can have 16 of them ...

I wasn't aware of that, but still not something most people would setup ahead of time and I don't believe that PAE is enabled by default on any workstation installs of XP.

Are you absolutely sure that 80-pin PATA cable/interface suffers from crosstalk...?

It's not electronic crosstalk that's the problem, only a single drive per-cable can have an operation in flight at a time and PATA drives don't support anything like SCSI disconnect that I'm aware of so once an operation is initiated the whole cable is locked until it completes.
 

JustaGeek

Platinum Member
Jan 27, 2007
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Originally posted by: Nothinman
Are you absolutely sure that 80-pin PATA cable/interface suffers from crosstalk...?

It's not electronic crosstalk that's the problem, only a single drive per-cable can have an operation in flight at a time and PATA drives don't support anything like SCSI disconnect that I'm aware of so once an operation is initiated the whole cable is locked until it completes.

That makes it perfectly clear - thanks!
 

stash

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2000
5,468
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Originally posted by: pallejr
PF = you (never) run out of memory, because your harddrive is so big. Go to the extreme, and you can have something like 256 terabytes of "harddrive" ram available to you

This is only true on server SKUs and then only Enterprise and Datacenter. XP SP2 and Vista run the PAE kernel by default for DEP support, but it is artifically limited and doesn't allow you to address > 4GB RAM or use pagefiles that are > 4GB.
 

pallejr

Senior member
Apr 8, 2007
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Originally posted by: stashThis is only true on server SKUs and then only Enterprise and Datacenter. XP SP2 and Vista run the PAE kernel by default for DEP support, but it is artifically limited and doesn't allow you to address > 4GB RAM or use pagefiles that are > 4GB.

That is hardware addressing. When the PAE kernel is loaded, you can configure much larger paging files
 

stash

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2000
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Interesting, it looks like that is right, at least on x86 Vista SP1. I can create a >4GB PF.
 

Maxily

Junior Member
Feb 20, 2008
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I have partitioned my hard drive like this:

First partition: 2 Gb
Second partition: 20 Gb
Third partition: rest

I use the second partition to run Vista, and on the first partition I have my Page File. I always figured this is the fastest way for a PF, as it is right at the start of the HD.
 

stash

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2000
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20GB is a very small partition for Vista, even with all your data stored on the third partition.
 

Maxily

Junior Member
Feb 20, 2008
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I've got Vista for about 5 months now, I've got all the big programs I want to run installed on the Vista partition and I still have 5Gb of space left.
 

stash

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2000
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Originally posted by: Maxily
I've got Vista for about 5 months now, I've got all the big programs I want to run installed on the Vista partition and I still have 5Gb of space left.
That space will start to disappear quickly as Windows and your apps are updated. The winsxs folder will grow over time.
 

Maxily

Junior Member
Feb 20, 2008
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Windows is currently fully updated, but I don't update my programs as they don't really need any updating. I also can't use auto as the partition that contains the PF is only 2Gb in size :p And so far I have yet to see a problem with my memory.
 

gsellis

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 2003
6,061
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Originally posted by: Maxily
I have partitioned my hard drive like this:

First partition: 2 Gb
Second partition: 20 Gb
Third partition: rest

I use the second partition to run Vista, and on the first partition I have my Page File. I always figured this is the fastest way for a PF, as it is right at the start of the HD.

That is a poor way to run your system and will be slower than if the pagefile is on the same partition as Vista. Any pagefile hits can cause the seek to be longer on the drive because it may go to the partition table to find the other partition, then to the file table for that partition. Only put pagefiles in 'other' partitions on a different physical drive.

For the rest of the thread posts... And the one comment missed is that you DO have an app that uses the pagefile even if you think you do not. That would be the OS. Without a pagefile on the boot drive (not system, boot), there is no way to debug a blue screen from what I remember.