Best Nforce4 Ultra Motherboard?

[MrFred]

Hello,
I have a FX-53 Clawhammer currently and just bought a 7800gtx so I am switching over to an Nforce4 mobo (non SLI). I've been looking through various reviews and have found that it seems the MSI Neo4 Plat and the DFI nF4 Ultra-D boards came out on top. After reading through some posts on these forums however I am now more hesitant towards the MSI board. I was originally heading towards the MSI board but now i'm not so sure. I was hoping I could get your opinions here. Overclocking is #1 for me but I wouldnt mind a moderate one. I had mine previously clocked at 2.6ghz so nothing extreme really. I'm more concerned with overall stability, reliability, and features just working the way they should. Thanks!

 

[freethrowtommy]

I have never used a DFI board but it seems to be THE best for overclocking according to what I have read about them. I am guessing that 99% of the people here are going to say the same thing.

 

[The Pentium Guy]

DFI for overclocking.

 

[coomar]

i have the dfi board, its great

 

[js9600]

I dont think you need DFI or that DFI is a must for overclocking. Biggest difference is in voltage limits. You can check that out before buying.

However there is more than just specs to a motherboard - so much I have learned... MSI have major problems with bios and what is worse they dont really seem to care. Very slow with updates. Even if they fix a certain problem, like letting computer restart/shut down with RAID!, dont expect them to release new bios - in their own time they will. You might be able to pick up a beta on some forum, great... On the other hand DFI seems much more friendly. http://www.dfi-street.com/forum/index.php?s=723c29301f50bd49912dd9b975580e5d& now compare with MSI "official" forums Counts for tweakers/overclockers even if products really are not that different. As said DFI have many oc-users, you will get best support going DFI. I was rather new to amd64 oc and tweaking when I got MSI plat. sli, have read a lot on DFI forums - hardly any use for MSI. Many MSI users screams of joy if computer boots at rated specs Different goals but I still say there will not be huge difference except those mentioned. Dont trust reviews but even those say it is quite nice, not strangely slow or anything. Very good, just buggy and compared to DFI somewhat limited bios. Can be important, ie. memory working best at 3.0v will not like MSI but you find out.

MSI onboard Creative chip is brillant - helps a bit.

 

[rise]

dfi's main difference is not the voltages alone, its the bios options. aside from the forum support and many bios versions that seem to some daily, the number of bios tweaks are amazing and unparralled. it makes it a lot easier to hit higher oc's on low voltage rams as well.

i think i'm ordering my3rd today.

 

[imported_Kensai]

DFI Ultra-D for serious to insane overclocking.
MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum for normal users and mild overclocking.

 

[js9600]

Well options making a big difference I dont think you will find. Not like MSI bios is empty or DFI have discovered new features of chipset others have missed. There is A64tweaker if needed. More options does not necessarily equal more useful options, think we are in finetuning department when you compare with MSI - their bios more buggy than useless. Other way of delivering voltage is major difference. Of course DFI more likely to find major tricks should they exsist. Dont think MSI bios makers would bother, still fighting basic bugs probably.

 

[BTA]

Doesnt the MSI have problems with 7800's fitting due to a capacitor in the way?

 

[rise]

its not that they've discovered new options but they make them available. a64 tweaker sux imo, any tweaks should be done in bios. and as far as the tweaks not making a big difference, thats just wrong. have you used the dfi bios at all?

 

[js9600]

What differences are you talking about? I only know those Ive seen on places like DFI-Street and yes there are more options but not really essential ones. Where are they? MSI is not an OEM mobo you know? More bios versions is important though, you dont see all in nice windows and I would put more money on DFI to use the better hidden defaults than MSI.

I just might get to know DFI a lot more very soon if not MSI wake up but I dont expect more speed - not with same use of voltage. Only budget reasons for not having DFI or perhaps Epox allready.

Yeah do check out total compatibility with that video card - MSI forums should be able to handle that http://forum.msi.com.tw/

 

[rise]

no problem, you'll see when/if you get it.

 

[keeleysam]

MSI

 

[MrFred]

Thanks for all the responses! I am very aware about DFI being the board for extreme ocing though that's not what's really important to me. The one thing that had be concerned about the MSI were all the people complaining about the bad BIOS and many other various issues.

I have heard of a lot of people with problems with their USB ports as well. Though, I do suppose most the people that would post about the board would be the ones with problems so I guess its hard to say...

I'd just like to pick the mobo to start that's actually going to work in the long run without giving me serious headaches =).

As far as the comment about 7800gtx not fitting. I saw that article and it is really a non-issue and besides that it is with their cooling solution and I am using a waterblock anyway.

 

[coomar]

isn't there an anandtech article comparing the nf4 baords

 

[js9600]

I can see you want MSI but without bugs? If you believe MSI will make some stable bios then it should be as good as DFI for your needs.

About the "extras" or what you will call them in DFI bios I still say they are of little relevance for a buying decision. Finetuning only. Not saying DFI isnt the better choice but Ive not seen anything indicating MSI has speed, overclock or general stability issues - providing bios recognize cpu properly, will let you boot etc. hehe.

Actually most bios problems have allready been solved but they still have not made new official versions. Only ones that counts, betas more like leaked than released by MSI. Also if you find complaints about a "219bug" then be sure to check out details. Does not apply to all cpus and is a very strange and I think unnecessary bug - more like proof MSI messes things up. For example with older bios I dont have any 219bug but in newer I do! It works, then not - so much for bios being accumulative. There is more... with latest bios, beta or official, my Venice core must have a fixed voltage of 1.400 not default 1.450 or "auto". If I dont force that HT, voltage, multiplier will be locked at minimum levels - 5x200, 1.1v. There is an exception and that is if I leave HT at x5 all is fine - except of course overclocking is more troublesome. HT of 3 or 4 would be better but then bios freak out and go minimalistic. On top of this, and as said before, RAID is a pain cause restarts/reboots means black screen. Not a problem with old bios or new beta but a big one with last 2 official. If MSI had any sense of support they would rush out a new official just with RAID fix but they do not. Need more testing but Im pretty sure using dividers for memory is often unstable - at least Ive found it much easier to get 1:1 working than most async setups. Feels buggy. I test with Prime95 not screenshot program so not helping MSI

If you were new to overclocking, read some oc-guide, and wanted to carry it out on MSI mobo with "wrong" cpu and "wrong" bios then you would never oc again I think. Anything you do will go wrong, or so it will seem.

Ive been focused on these problems, might have missed others but then again I doubt DFI is flawless. Main question for you should be if MSI will ever release a full working bios? I think they will but even so this is my last MSI product because Im personally annoyed about MSI, their employees, their "support" such as their "forum" and everything else starting with MSI Others will be more cool about it, some have no clue cause not hit by bugs. Silence and zero recognition of problems irritates people = whining on places like this. How they see much point in that I dont know.

As you are aware my problem does not have to be your problem, or Anandtech when they praise MSI!, and many complaints originates from userbugs. But some are for real, some are so big they should never have seen day of light. 2 official bios with Raid bug is unforgivable, no way they can be testing much - anyone can reproduce in 10 minutes. I have a theory that the experienced bios maker got fired from messing about with wife of his boss at about same time much work was required to give all these new AMD chips compatibililty approval. Had to let junior bios fiddlers do the job - and they are not done yet

 

[ChicagoPCGuy]

I cannot believe that no one has suggested the EPoX 9NPA+Ultra yet. It just received a Gold Award from Anandtech during the roundup and was one of the best nF4 boards HardOCP has yet pass through their doors. See the other 8+ reviews around the web that love that board. Totally stable, lots of features, and one of the best overclockers on the planet.

It is also being suggested all over the forums, and not just at Anandtech.

I guess I will just stop recommending the damn board. It seems no matter how much you evidence you amass on something, no one ever wants to listen.

FWIW. I give up!

 

[MrFred]

Originally posted by: js9600
I can see you want MSI but without bugs? If you believe MSI will make some stable bios then it should be as good as DFI for your needs.

About the "extras" or what you will call them in DFI bios I still say they are of little relevance for a buying decision. Finetuning only. Not saying DFI isnt the better choice but Ive not seen anything indicating MSI has speed, overclock or general stability issues - providing bios recognize cpu properly, will let you boot etc. hehe.

Actually most bios problems have allready been solved but they still have not made new official versions. Only ones that counts, betas more like leaked than released by MSI. Also if you find complaints about a "219bug" then be sure to check out details. Does not apply to all cpus and is a very strange and I think unnecessary bug - more like proof MSI messes things up. For example with older bios I dont have any 219bug but in newer I do! It works, then not - so much for bios being accumulative. There is more... with latest bios, beta or official, my Venice core must have a fixed voltage of 1.400 not default 1.450 or "auto". If I dont force that HT, voltage, multiplier will be locked at minimum levels - 5x200, 1.1v. There is an exception and that is if I leave HT at x5 all is fine - except of course overclocking is more troublesome. HT of 3 or 4 would be better but then bios freak out and go minimalistic. On top of this, and as said before, RAID is a pain cause restarts/reboots means black screen. Not a problem with old bios or new beta but a big one with last 2 official. If MSI had any sense of support they would rush out a new official just with RAID fix but they do not. Need more testing but Im pretty sure using dividers for memory is often unstable - at least Ive found it much easier to get 1:1 working than most async setups. Feels buggy. I test with Prime95 not screenshot program so not helping MSI

If you were new to overclocking, read some oc-guide, and wanted to carry it out on MSI mobo with "wrong" cpu and "wrong" bios then you would never oc again I think. Anything you do will go wrong, or so it will seem.

Ive been focused on these problems, might have missed others but then again I doubt DFI is flawless. Main question for you should be if MSI will ever release a full working bios? I think they will but even so this is my last MSI product because Im personally annoyed about MSI, their employees, their "support" such as their "forum" and everything else starting with MSI Others will be more cool about it, some have no clue cause not hit by bugs. Silence and zero recognition of problems irritates people = whining on places like this. How they see much point in that I dont know.

As you are aware my problem does not have to be your problem, or Anandtech when they praise MSI!, and many complaints originates from userbugs. But some are for real, some are so big they should never have seen day of light. 2 official bios with Raid bug is unforgivable, no way they can be testing much - anyone can reproduce in 10 minutes. I have a theory that the experienced bios maker got fired from messing about with wife of his boss at about same time much work was required to give all these new AMD chips compatibililty approval. Had to let junior bios fiddlers do the job - and they are not done yet

Thanks for the detailed post! As I said in previous posts ocing is a plus but not a must. I read about the raid issue which does seem extremely stupid and uncalled for. I suppose as long as there are leaked bios it's not so bad... I won't be having a raid setup anyways so thats not a big issue again for me. Are their any other issues worth mentioning beyond that? I had heard one mention of some people with USB port problems though no details were said so I had no idea whether it was user or board related.

Originally posted by: ChicagoPCGuy
I cannot believe that no one has suggested the EPoX 9NPA+Ultra yet. It just received a Gold Award from Anandtech during the roundup and was one of the best nF4 boards HardOCP has yet pass through their doors. See the other 8+ reviews around the web that love that board. Totally stable, lots of features, and one of the best overclockers on the planet.

It is also being suggested all over the forums, and not just at Anandtech.

I guess I will just stop recommending the damn board. It seems no matter how much you evidence you amass on something, no one ever wants to listen.

FWIW. I give up!

Thanks for the suggestion! I actually did not overlook that board! I am researching that one as well. I just really don't have any questions about it yet to post since i'm just exploring the posts already out there for it.

 

[The Pentium Guy]

Just remember that the DFI might be hard to set up if you're a beginner.

 

[js9600]

You should go to MSI own forum, click advanced search, punch in "usb" and limit search to their Nvidia forum.

These problems I talk about will also be mentioned in many posts there. Also this forum is very good with MSI http://www.rhcf.com/sis-bin/ultimatebb....21;hardset=0;start_point=0;DaysPrune=0

Well Im not happy with those betas cause they are not released by MSI but leaked to public from users who somehow obtained them from MSI. Recently someone flashed wrong bios and should now be sueing MSI so there have been very few leaks since But yes they show they are at least aware of problems. Depending on your model, be careful not to mix them up, they might have official ready soon. No matter all will be happy in the end it has taken way too long to fix what seems to be unnecessary problems.

If I didnt have issues with how MSI support bios then I dont think there is much to cry about. The little chipset fan is racing at 7000+ rpm and hard to replace with big passive sink because of video card, but you have read about that in reviews Im sure. Rest is pretty good, nice package and in this country very good price too. Im not sure all onboard solutions are based on Creative 24bit live chip but assuming you have normal hearing go for one that is. Good choice by MSI, really good quality - Ive yet to install Audigy 2...

About oc - I get the almost normal 2705mhz out of Venice 3500 P95 approved. Any more will need better than stock cooler. Stock cooler limits fits nicely those of MSI voltage. Ok for oc based on air cooler. Could use a bit more for memory I think but then I should have gotten other brand. DFI more or less alone about high voltage? I run 246:246 and doubt it would be much different on DFI - also doubt there is any speed difference with same settings. More voltage to ram might allow better timings but I will let P95 be the judge of that and then Im not so sure, heh.

I think MSI have set some records but that does not mean Epox, Abit or DFI are perfect and care about you Dig up their problems and how they deal with them before paying up. You must have enough money but not fun to waste hours messing about with something you cant really solve anyway. I must admit that a few hours research could have saved me days but I didnt bother so when computer couldnt boot at 220+ I started testing each and every setting/setup etc. etc. At same time MSI forum had many hits with keywords "black screen"

Btw, about the Epox you might want to check out their half-official forum http://www.aoaforums.com/forum/forumdis...=e62595e49be5e5baf71e85a589460631&f=27

 

[furballi]

Abit uses Nichicon capacitors. I've heard that the EPoX 9NPA+Ultra uses United Chemicon caps. Can anyone confirm this.

 

[MrFred]

Thanks for the link to the forum that was very informational! I know nothing is perfect but I'd like to avoid any extremely crappy problems that there is no excuse for as well .

The chipset fan being loud def sucks but I'll be replacing that with a small waterblock anyway. I was able to fit one on the nforce3 ultra so I'm sure I'll be able to do the same with this one being its pretty much in the same position.

I never did understand why in god's name they put the chipset where it was. So very annoying . Did you see the new board from BFG as well? I haven't read any reviews on it but it doesn't seem to bad either. They actually have the chipset set to the side away from the slot with a larger heatsink on it which is cool.

The dual onboard LAN is somewhat important to me so that's why I'm not looking at the Abit and Epox board as much, though not ruling it out either.

 

[js9600]

There really is very little space for your waterblock - I would go to MSI forum and see what they have to say about 7800 and chipset replacement.

Yeah there are a few strange design features. The worst you hopefully wont see. MSI decided to use a rarely used voltage line for onboard audio I believe, -5v. Means many power supplies are not compatible! So they went "Ohhh" and changed it. If very unlucky you can still get one which use -5v. You can check after reading this http://forum.msi.com.tw/index.php?topic=81764.0

 

[MrFred]

I'll be using the chipset block from Koolance. During one of the reviews they used it with the DFI board and it fit OK. The chipset is in the same location on the Neo4 so should be fine.

I did read about that -5v issue. Hopefully I don't get that unlucky hehe. But I already have an Audigy 2 ZS Plat Pro so I won't be using the onboard audio anyway...