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Best hardware solution for RAIDless storage (20+ drives)

V

VERTIGGO

Senior member
My question is should I invest in SAS, lots of SATA
controllers, or is there a better solution?

Maybe I'm old fashioned, or just clumsy, but I have broken every RAID setup I have tried, one way or another, and though it is the preferred method, I intend to stick with 1:1 backups. I currently run two rigs with 10TB each and manually mirror all of my backed up BluRays, music, etc. I am running into the limits of mobo and cheap SATA controller connections, and I plan to build a single server rig, probably running linux, to share out the drives, and keep two mirrored banks of drives, but I want to expand far beyond my current needs so I'm not always concerned about adding to it.

I have read that SAS works well for daisy chaining dozens of drives, but is this the best solution for a simple setup like mine?

Thanks
 
Sas card plus port expanders? 8 port 6gbit/s SAS non-RAID cards are not too expensive.

Sata drives work on SAS controllers, so no need for expensive SAS drives.
 
Maybe I should have been more specific...

I will use SATA drives, but I'm not sure how SAS controllers work. With an 8 port SAS card you can just keep adding expanders and SATA drives? I can handle the software and power supply side, I just haven't seen SAS in action, so I didn't know if it was that simple. Essentially I don't mind having 24 drives independently lettered and I'm willing to shell out a reasonable amount if it means not being limited by available ports...

e.g. I was looking at this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816151039

So if I needed more than 8 drives all I would need is to buy expanders? Speed is not an issue since I'm merely playing video or music files.
 
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You do not really have to worry about drive letters anymore, Windows now has mount points for drives. However, with this many drives I would HIGHLY suggest an array and good controllers. All drives die, its not a matter of if, but when. But hey its your call. There is nothing worse than lost data, that could have been prevented.
 
That's why I manually mirror everything, a 2 to 1 HDD to data ratio. I may be simple minded in this respect, but I've lost over many terabytes total due to user errors, and I just don't trust myself yet.

e.g. I powered up with a drive unplugged by mistake, and my entire stripe disappeared. Had I shut down immediately, I may have been fine, but I wasn't sure what to do, and Highpoint support had nothing for me, so I lost 4.5TB in a split second. In my view, unless I become more confident in my own ability, it's for more reliable to spend a few more bucks (HDDs are the cheapest part) and duplicate everything.
 
VERTIGGO said:
That's why I manually mirror everything, a 2 to 1 HDD to data ratio. I may be simple minded in this respect, but I've lost over many terabytes total due to user errors, and I just don't trust myself yet.
Click to expand...
I'm the same way. I don't understand raid1 enough, I don't understand raid5, and I don't understand the data pool thing in Windows server. Simplest and most reliable way to do this is to have duplicates of every drive. The drives can all be different sizes, but in pairs. 2x1TB drives, 2x500GB drives, etc. I manually mirror files using Microsoft SyncToy.


I am running into the limits of mobo and cheap SATA controller connections
Click to expand...
IMO the biggest limitation is usually the size of the case and the number of expansion slots on the board. The actual sata controllers are quite inexpensive.

PCI card with 4 sata slots - $22
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...5280003&cm_re=pci_sata-_-15-280-003-_-Product

PCI express with 2 sata slots - $15
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...&cm_re=sata_controller-_-15-280-009-_-Product


The mobo in the computer I'm using right now has 2 PCI slots and 5 sata slots, so that's up to up to 13 drives.

If you want to put all 20 drives in 1 computer, that's where it starts getting crazy expensive. While that 4-port sata pci was $15, things with 8 slots on newegg start in the $200-300 range. It really is cheaper to just have separate computers. Even the most ghetto computers are good enough.
 
For the sake of convenience and simplicity, I'm looking to the more expensive option, as I want everything accessible on a single OS/boot cycle. I will probably end up using "external" sas with some of those rackmount expander bays. I'm just hoping this means I can use one decent controller and simply plug more bays into it in the future. I mean, two 12 bay expanders means 24TB effective space with current hardware, but HDD density keeps increasing, so I would hopefully not need more, at the rate I collect media, any way.
 
I'm not sure if you were just hasty in searching, but those are just drive bays, there's no eSATA involved, meaning multiple SATA connections, no SAS, and no expander...
 
VERTIGGO said:
Maybe I should have been more specific...

I will use SATA drives, but I'm not sure how SAS controllers work. With an 8 port SAS card you can just keep adding expanders and SATA drives? I can handle the software and power supply side, I just haven't seen SAS in action, so I didn't know if it was that simple. Essentially I don't mind having 24 drives independently lettered and I'm willing to shell out a reasonable amount if it means not being limited by available ports...

e.g. I was looking at this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16816151039

So if I needed more than 8 drives all I would need is to buy expanders? Speed is not an issue since I'm merely playing video or music files.
Click to expand...

If you want to go this route, you need to make sure the controller actually supports the use of expanders. The ARC-1222 does not support the use of SAS expanders. If you want an Areca RAID card that supports expanders, you need to look into the 1680 series. Here's a table.

However, it sounds like you just want an HBA with no RAID support. In that case, you just need something from the 1300 series. Here's a table.

If you go with Linux, I would strongly suggest that you do a software RAID1. You'll get automatic mirroring but retain the ability to individually mount the drives if you so choose.
 
I like where your head's at fenn... the 1300 looks like the right type of gadget. However, why is it so important to use any type of RAID? I'm worried in part about my own errors, and RAID1 would only replicate user destroyed data... I would never rely solely on RAID to backup data.

I guess I understand RAID0 for speed and manually backed up, but software RAID lessens the benefit of that anyway...
 
VERTIGGO said:
I like where your head's at fenn... the 1300 looks like the right type of gadget. However, why is it so important to use any type of RAID? I'm worried in part about my own errors, and RAID1 would only replicate user destroyed data... I would never rely solely on RAID to backup data.

I guess I understand RAID0 for speed and manually backed up, but software RAID lessens the benefit of that anyway...
Click to expand...

Of course RAID isn't a backup and should never be used as such.

HOWEVER, the impression that I got from your posts was that both sets of data were live. That is a terrible solution because in the event of failure, how will you then decide which set is the backup and which set is the master? If one set is not user-accessible, then carry on! I would still advise you to create an rsync cron job to automate the backups.
 
SATA 6Gb/s eSATA port multiplier: 1 port = 15 devices

You don't have to do SATA 6Gb/s ... I only suggested it because all the devices on the port share the bandwidth. I use 2 Sans Digital 5 Bay SATA to eSATA (Port Multiplier) JBOD / RAID 0, 1, 1+0, 5 External Enclosures on SATAII; one on my mobo eSATA port. They provide a controller card with each enclosure -- it's no speed-king but it works.

The Egg puts the above enclosure on sale from time to time with free shipping ---- some of the 4-bay enclosures pop up for around $130 w/free shipping.

I name the "shares" dependent upon the content --- system back-ups, 'hot' files, media content, etc.

IIRC, some of the 8-bay units can utilize the bandwidth of 2 ports. You can 'sleep' the drives but you cannot wind down the fan in the enclosure (if anyone knows of a unit(s) that you can completely 'sleep' I would sure like to hear about it)




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