Best gaming mobo/processor/ram/case for under $500? (AMD or Intel?)

[Chris431]

Heh! I came in UNDER BUDGET! which is pretty rare. $500 was the budget, I came in @ $434. If you went with normal ram instead of Corsair, could even get 512 Meg and still be within $500.

We could both cut a good $25-$35 going with PC3200 cas2.5 chips. But, what fun would that be.

The P4 @ 2.7 - 2.8 will outperform the 1700 @ 2100 in every app that people actually use.

Would a P4 @ 2.7-2.8 on a Radeon 9500Pro outperform a XP 2000/2100+ with a Radeon 9700 (or Pro)?
He'd have a 9700/Pro that will gain more performance from a CPU upgrade in the future than the 9500Pro will.

I honestly don't know the answer to that one but I'd be interested in finding out for curiousities sake. I still think the AMD solution offers a better future proof path with SATA & a cheaper upgrade solution with Barton. Perhaps, if he is interested in possibly moving to SATA in the next year you could post some P4 boards that have SATA support.

Chris

 

[oldfart]

I do a lot of video encoding. 2 Pass VBR MPEG2 SVCD stuff. Video card means squat. CPU makes everything faster. Video card only speeds up games.

Would a P4 @ 2.7-2.8 on a Radeon 9500Pro outperform a XP 2000/2100+ with a Radeon 9700 (or Pro)?

Not sure. It might. The XP system would be CPU limited. Not sure if it could feed the 9700 Pro. Some games are very CPU dependant, some are more video card dependant.

 

[Chris431]

I do a lot of video encoding. 2 Pass VBR MPEG2 SVCD stuff. Video card means squat. CPU makes everything faster. Video card only speeds up games.

Which is why it's so important for anyone looking to upgrade to determine their needs. The subject suggests he wants the "best gaming" mix so the video card may very well be the most important piece he buys now. And, with the option of saving some $ & moving it toward a 9700 instead of the 9500, it may offer a better solution especially if he upgrades the cheap ($60 1700+) CPU in the next year with a Barton (which should definitely fill the 9700/Pro).

Armchair, you may want to check out this HardOCP article on possible limitations of overclocking the 9500 Pro. Scroll down to the conclusion....the article is changing as I type. Here is the forum discussing a very recent discovery on overclocking the 9500 Pro which many thought were clock locked

Chris

 

[ArmchairAthlete]

Following these general guidelines, more likely than not, no matter which system you went with, you'll be more than satisfied.

I'm sure this is very true... I'll probably be happy indeed with either AMD or Intel, but I'm here to get the most for my money

I'd still encourage you to get a 1700+ over the 2000+ & save a few dollars. The 1700+ has healthy overhead for overclocking to 2000/2100+ levels while the 2000 has little to no overhead. If you want to increase the FSB/memory, the 1700+ is going to give you more room without having to unlock the chip.

I'm very uncomfortable with being forced to overclock just to save a few dollars if I go the AMD route. Might be fine for people with lots of experience doing it, but I really need to look into overclocking before I attempt it. I can't afford to replace components I break overclocking. That's probably why I chose that 2000+, also because it wasn't much more. I didn't know it had little overclocking overhead though.

Now onto different benchmarks. Remember this PC is for gaming primarily. I rarely encode MP3's, and I don't know what Lightwave even is. And SPEC ViewPerf7? I don't use those progs.

SATA is probably a feature you should look at having & the Albatron 845PE doesn't offer it (although I'm sure you'll be able to find a PCI SATA card eventually).

Could you explain what SATA is exactly? Sounded like it was some sort of peripheral-connecting deal like USB 2.0 or Firewire. I don't use things that plug into USB or Firewire much. (Not at all with Firewire).

An $80 difference gets you a Radeon 9700 (not Pro) instead of a 9500 Pro or another 256mb.

Everything over $500 comes out of my pocket. So the whole PC needs to be over $500, and under $700 essentially. If I can save spending money for games or whatever that is a plus. I chose a Radeon 9500 Pro because it seemed the best bang for your buck. I don't think I want to sink $300+ into something that will benefit only games for me, while I can get something relatively close to as good (9500 Pro) for a whole lot less. Of course gaming isn't the ONLY thing this PC will ever be used for. The CD-ROM drive in this PC died so I also need to get a CD-ROM drive for about $25 now (saw some that cheap on newegg.com and they had good feedback).

If you went with normal ram instead of Corsair, could even get 512 Meg and still be within $500

But wouldn't that sort of destroy the option to overclock? I'm willing to spend a little bit more on RAM to leave that option open.


That info on being able to overclock a 9500 Pro is exciting news Chris.

And also that Albatron board looks like a steal for that amazingly low price.
And overclocking safely to a 2.8 Ghz... Wow! That's fast.

Like Chris said I'll probably be happy with either system. When I first started looking I was leaning towards Intel, then AMD, now probably Intel again... But don't worry, I'm in no rush to decide without looking around and hearing from people like you guys on the forums. That's the way to do it. Competition is always good.

 

[Chris431]

SATA aka Serial ATA will start replacing the IDE standard for connecting drives to your motherboard/chipset in 2003. SATA HD's are just starting to show up but should be in abundance in 2003. The Asus A7n8x has a raid SATA controller.

Here is an overview of SATA at Tom's Hardware.

I'm very uncomfortable with being forced to overclock just to save a few dollars if I go the AMD route. Might be fine for people with lots of experience doing it, but I really need to look into overclocking before I attempt it. I can't afford to replace components I break overclocking.

Don't be (uncomfortable) . With decent cooling you can easily overclock the 1700+ simply by upping the FSB in the bios (ie. from 133 to 150 or 166 or whatever it can reach). By simply using the FSB you don't have to concern yourself with unlocking the multiplier although you could opt to do that in the future if you want to run at a higher FSB than you can otherwise achieve with the multiplier locked. The base 1700+ multiplier is 11. So moving from 133 to 150fsb would result in a move from the standard 1700+ (1470mhz) to ~2000+(1650mhz). Because at this point the fsb is higher than a stock 2000+ (which is 133) it may perform better than the stock 2000+. This is just an example of how it works. I wouldn't worry about breaking components as the CPU will simply not boot if you push it too hard or lockup the PC, etc. Damaging components from minimal overclocking of the CPU is pretty rare. I don't recall ever reading of it occuring in my 4-5 years of doing so starting with a P2 350 (oc'd to 400...saved me a couple hundred bucks) & then a Celeron 600 oc'd to 900mhz. I hadn't upgraded the Celeron 600 until my most recent upgrade a month or so ago. Thus, you can see why "future proofing" may be more important to me than others. The only part I upgraded throughout that 5 year period was 1 cpu (from the P2 350 to the celeron at ~$160 guaranteed at 900mhz), 1 video card (from a TNT to a geforce2 mx (I needed a decent gaming card & dual head....$189 when they first came out) & 1 hard drive (from an early version of the overly whiny Cheetah 10k to a quiet Cheetah 15k ($240) simply b/c after years of the annoying 10k noise I decided I needed a quieter HD). Outside of upgrading the CPU at some point (I bought the 1600+ b/c I wanted a decent but disposable CPU b/c I plan on upgrading it with a Barton over the next year....$54 seemed good enough yet somewhat disposable) & maybe moving over to SATA (a big IF), I expect this recent PC upgrade to last me for some time.

Now onto different benchmarks. Remember this PC is for gaming primarily. I rarely encode MP3's, and I don't know what Lightwave even is. And SPEC ViewPerf7? I don't use those progs.

I used these as examples to demonstrate that looking at benchmarks doesn't always give you a complete comparative picture unless you're looking to run a specific program and not to focus on any single benchmark (ie. the Quake 3 comparison that initially raised your concerns).

But wouldn't that sort of destroy the option to overclock? I'm willing to spend a little bit more on RAM to leave that option open.

I'm pretty confident that both oldfart & I would recommend you stay with our suggestions (the Corsair PC3200 cas2). He was just saying if you HAVE to stay within $500, that his setup could be possible with slower/different memory.

My Radeon 9700 Pro just arrived. As did some quieter intake fans so I'm off to tinker.

Hopefully I can answer the question regarding a 9700 Pro on a locked XP1600+ (oc'd to 1585mhz (~1900+) at the moment...need to lap & reseat the heat sink) versus a 9500 Pro on a faster CPU.

Chris

 

[ArmchairAthlete]

Here's another thing to think of as for the P4 route. I've heard of a chipset coming out soon (end of the month?) for Pentiums called "Granite Bay". Apparantly it has the dual channel DDR that has helped performance for AMD chips, but now for Pentiums finally. The mobo would be more expensive of course, but I could always just buy one stick of RAM until I save up for the next one to fully take advantage of dual DDR.

What do you guys think of that?

EDIT: Anandtech.com Article on Granite Bay here

EDIT2: The Gigabyte 8INXP has SATA too, at $175 it's a lot more expensive than that Albatron but probably worth it. Looks great.

 

[oldfart]

Granite Bay is very nice, but will surely blow the budget. Single stick of ram will work, but is slow (slower than 845 boards).

And yes, get good ram with single channel DDR. The cheap stuff wont help if you are overclocking. Granite Bay would be the exception. No real need for anyhting above PC2700 even if you overclock.

 

[ArmchairAthlete]

When I add it up, it looks like I might be able to go for Granite Bay and go over the budget only a little. That's if I start with one stick of cheaper RAM (since you said I don't need that top-of-the-line stuff in Granite Bay). Those Granite Bay boards on the Anandtech article are very nice and feature loaded. So, what if I go Granite Bay and buy the other stick of RAM later? Good idea?



Maybe if I give the PC I am replacing to my sister my dad might be willing to add another $100 so I can get the two sticks of RAM that mobo would really need. (The onboard sound and LAN on those Granite Bay boards would be nice in this case, as I wouldn't need to buy stuff to keep this PC fully functional). Or I could sell it somehow.

A 2.4 ghz P4 with 512 MB Dual DDR and a Radeon 9500 Pro would sure be a screaming machine compared to what I have, especially if I can overclock it well

 

[Chris431]

The mobo would be more expensive of course, but I could always just buy one stick of RAM until I save up for the next one to fully take advantage of dual DDR.

Starting down the slippery slope

That is an option although consider closely what oldfart says about it being slow especially if it'll take awhile to save up for another stick of ram.
At that point, you've spent enough extra to upgrade to a 9700 Pro & from what I've read the Albatron paired with a 9700 Pro would be faster than the Granite Bay board paired with a 9500 Pro (all other things being equal, ram, cpu, etc.) You can see from the Anandtech comparison that the Granite Bay boards aren't much faster for gaming than the Albatron board with all of them using a Geforce4600. Meanwhile, you can see a more significant difference between the performance of the 9500 Pro & the 9700 Pro at Tom's Hardware 9500 Pro review. As such, the video card is going to make a bigger difference than the motherboard type. If you're going to limit yourself to 256mb for the time being so that you have an extra $100 to spend, choosing the faster video card will make a bigger difference than the motherboard (at least for gaming).

Chris

P.S. I have installed new intake fan. Slightly quieter. Still haven't taken the 9700 Pro out of the box.

 

[ArmchairAthlete]

So apparantly it is possible to overclock a Radeon 9500 Pro to be as powerful as Radeon 9700 (maybe even 9700 Pro? not sure). But would I be able to overclock a Radeon 9700 Pro even more if I bought that?

If a Radeon 9500 Pro could be overclocked, and a Radeon 9700 Pro cannot it might be better to get a 9500 Pro with a Granite Bay and overclock it. I should go read that forum post and that ATI site some more and get more info on this.

 

[Bovinicus]

I would go with an nForce2 chipset because of the integrated LAN and sound; both of which are very high quality.

AMD is really the only way to go with a system like that. You can't even get a P4 for under $100, and the latest Celerons perform like garbage. Meanwhile, an XP1700+ can be had for around $50. Heck, the 1.3GHz Duron is a pretty sweet deal too for around only $30. Actually, if you think you might be overclocking, then try to get one of the new .13 micron XP1700+s. They overclock nicely from what I hear.

The EPoX 8RDA+ overclocks well, performs well, and is pretty cheap.

Crucial memory is good for the overclocker on a budget, but Corsair still makes the highest quality memory.

I like Antec's 330W Tru PSU. It's a tad pricey, but the PSU is NOT where you want to skimp.

The case is really up to you. Whatever you can afford that you like. Full towers or aluminum cases are nice for reduced temps. I'm looking at the Thermaltake Xaiser 6000. It cools well, is a full tower, has a pretty silent but effective cooling setup, and allows the PSU of choice.

 

[Chris431]

Comparing Radeon 9500 Pro (default) on various high end P4s v. Radeon 9700 Pro (default) on a XP 1600+ (oc'd at 1585 which is ~ 1900+). Also a brief note on 9500 Pro overclock results.

I ran a quick 3dMark test. I don't have many of the other common games used for benchmarking although I have Maxpayne but it isn't installed. My current OS 98SE has went through a motherboard change (from an Intel chipset based board, BH-6 to a Socket A, nForce2 based board, a7n8x) and now a video card change (from an Nvidia Geforce 2MX to a Radeon 9700 Pro) without having a fresh install (which it needed before I switched over the motherboard....I just haven't got around to it). As such, I don't expect these 3dmark results to be at all optimal.

My score was ~12144 for each of 3 runs.

UPDATE: I did a fresh install of the OS & reran 3dmarks. My new score after 2 test runs was ~13498. This was a surprising and significant increase from my previous scores of about 12144. This test was run with DX9 as opposed to the previous tests which were DX8. Yet, I had ran some underclocked tests when DX9 was installed before I reformated & found the results to be consistent in relation to my base results suggesting the DX9 doesn't have any noticable impact on 3dmarks. Others seem to be confirming same.

I read various reviews of the 9500Pro & noted the CPU used in the test. Here are several of them:
3.06ghz P4 - 1 12831, another 12600.
2.8ghz Pr - 11782
2.53ghz - 12147
2.4 - 11909.

Thus, in all but the fastest P4, my Radeon 9700 Pro beat a Radeon 9500 Pro running on a faster CPU.
None of these results were based on an overclocked 9700 Pro or 9500 Pro.

9500 Pro overclocking
I found these scores linked to Futuremarks project system from those who have OC'd their 9500 Pros on this thread(which is where the bios/etc. started).


Athlon XP @ 1533 (this is the closest comparison since my XP is at 1585) = 10602
Athlon XP @ 1747mhz (1736mhz is XP2100+) = 11577
Athlon XP @ 1754 = 11761
Athlon XP @ 1782mhz = 11955 (9500 Pro oc'd to 330/310; the default 9700 Pro is 325/310)
Athlon XP @ 1786mhz = 11955 (up from 11103 before the oc)
Athlon XP @ 1747 - before OC 11577; after OC 11865

There is a 1500 point difference in favor of the 9700 Pro between 9500 Pro Overclocked & a stock 9700 Pro running on a similar CPU @ ~1533/1585.
Even the oc'd 9500 Pros running on faster CPUs failed to beat a stock 9700 Pro.

Because we know the 9700/9500 still aren't completely pushed by CPU, let's compare a stock 9700 Pro with the overclocked 9500 Pros running on CPUs of the same speed. It seems that 13600-700s is the most common range for stock 9700 Pros running on XP2100+. Of note is that high 14000s-15000s is not uncommon for an overclocked 9700 Pro attached to an XP2100+. This compares well to the scores of overclocked 9500 Pros listed above which are running on equivalently clocked CPUs. This is most likely due to the 128-bit memory interface of the 9500 Pro versus the 256-bit memoery interface of the 9700.

So, does the overclockable (for now....ATI could probably eliminate this with updated drivers even though it was a bios change that allowed for the overclocking) 9500 Pro kick the 9700 Pro out of contention? Most certainly not. OTOH, it probably kicks the Geforce's out of contention for all but those who are purely budget oriented.

Chris

Feel free to add, constructively comment, etc. I put this together pretty quickly & haven't re-read through it.

 

[ArmchairAthlete]

So maybe going all out on the video card would be the best for gaming?
Or maybe go with a PC with a real good mobo/proc where I'll have to upgrade the vid card sooner?
Let's compare the options here.



AMD Options:


AMD Option #1

XP1700+ $61 retail; $57 oem
2 x CMX256A-3200C2 @ 91 each = $182
Case = $80 (for the one I want)
a7n8x = $131 (at newegg, or that Epox same price almost)
Gigabyte GV-R9700PRO RADEON 9700 PRO 128MB DDR 8X AGP RETAIL = $326 @ newegg.com

Total = $780 (I think I can manage this, Geared for games more than anything else with the R9700Pro. Needs to be OCed.)

or

AMD Option #2


XP1700+ $61 retail; $57 oem
2 x CMX256A-3200C2 @ 91 each = $182
Case = $80 (for the one I like)
a7n8x = $131 (at newegg, or maybe the Epox same price almost)
Radeon 9500 Pro = $198 (at newegg)

Total = $652 (Easily fits in the budget, shipping and all but a weaker PC and I gotta overclock)

AMD Option #3 (Optimistic's + vid card)

$96 EPOX EP-8RDA (What's the diff between this and 8RDA+?)
- NVIDIA nFORCE2 CHIPSET
- Max. 3 GB unbuffered PC3200/PC2700/PC2100/PC1600 non-ECC DDR RAM
- 1xAGP(8X)/6xPCI/ Ultra DMA/133, 4 drives max. 6xUSB 2.0 ports
- Realtek ALC650E 6-channel full-duplex integrated sound
$93 AMD ATHLON XP 2100+ 1.73GHZ (Maybe 1700+ if I can OC?)
$80 Two 256MB of PNY PC2700 @ 333MHz (Will this OC well?)
Case = $80
Gigabyte GV-R9700PRO RADEON 9700 PRO 128MB DDR 8X AGP RETAIL = $326 @ newegg.com

Total = $675 (Radeon 9700 Pro and still in the budget, other parts more questionable. Aimed at gaming.)





Intel Options:


Intel Option #1

Albatron 845PE $85
P4 2.4B $190
256 Meg Corsair XMS PC3200 $91
Case = $80 (again the one I like)
Gigabyte GV-R9700PRO RADEON 9700 PRO 128MB DDR 8X AGP RETAIL = $326 @ newegg.com

Total = $772 (Not sure which is better here. Also geared for games more than anything else with the R9700Pro)

or

Intel Option #2


Gigabyte 8INXP (Granite Bay) = $175 (What Anandtech says it'll go for)
Hot Item! KINGSTON KVR333X64C25/256 256MB 32x64 PC2700 DDR RAM = $70 x 2 = $140
P4 2.4B Ghz = $190
Case = $80
Radeon 9500 Pro = $198

Total = $783 (Pricey, but will perform very well in other things besides gaming)

or

Intel Option #3

Albatron 845PE $85
P4 2.4B $190
256 Meg Corsair XMS PC3200 $91
Case = $80
Radeon 9500 Pro = $198

Total = $644 (Also fits in the budget easily but also weaker, could potentially be a 2.8 ghz if overclocked)




I think those are my options here.


Will investing $120-140 more in a video card really get me very a noticeable performance gain? I'm trying to see if I'll really get my money's worth by throwing about another $100+ into the project. I don't want to do that for only a small performance gain.

 

[oldfart]

Inte option...1b??

Intel Option #1

Albatron 845PE $85
P4 1.8A $141
256 Meg Corsair XMS PC3200 $91
Case = $80 (again the one I like)
Gigabyte GV-R9700PRO RADEON 9700 PRO 128MB DDR 8X AGP RETAIL = $326 @ newegg.com

Total = $723

This is if you want to be a little more risky on your overclocking. The stock speed of the 2 CPUs:
18 x 100 = 1.8A
18 x 133 = 2.4B
They both have the same multiplier. Depending on luck of the draw, they may achieve the same overclock speed. Totally your choice on that one. Just thought I'd give you another option.

 

[Macro2]

AMD Option 3 looks real good but get a 2400+

 

[Chris431]

(What's the diff between this and 8RDA+?)

8RDA site
8RDA+ site

Despite what the newegg descriptions suggests the 8RDA audio is Realtek ALC650E 2-channel full-duplex integrated sound versus the 8RDA+'s Realtek ALC650E 6-channel full-duplex integrated sound. The 8RDA+ also has firewire & an integrated ethernet port.

 

[Chris431]

ALERT ALERT ALERT

The A7n8x that is at newegg for $131 is not the A7n8x deluxe. As such it does have SATA or dual lan & doesn't use the integrated nForce2 soundstorm.
This somewhat limits the future proofing that drew me to the nForce2 (outside of the dual ddr) given the SATA support. As such, if you're going to buy an a7n8x, I'd pay the extra $17 for the Deluxe at Googlegear.

Sorry about the mistake. I just noticed it while scrolling through newegg to look at the Epox. The $131 initially surprised me since I paid $150 a little over a month ago but I hadn't yet seen the vanilla A7n8x so I just assumed it was the Deluxe model.

Looking at your current options, $17 isn't a deal breaker.

Chris

 

[Chris431]

Which Option? (sorry about the multiple posts)

I would still go the AMD route simply because it has a cheaper upgrade path.

Motherboard: $96 The EPOX EP-8RDA seems to be a nice find if you're not overly interested in using the nForce2's apu (soundstorm) or onboard audio. Although I don't use it, nForce2's apu was 1 of the major attractions to the nForce2 as a whole. If you don't need onboard ethernet, care about firewire, or the switch to SATA then the Epox is probably a good choice. It's a very basic nForce2 board....buy it for USB 2.0 & dual DDR.

Memory: I'd still stick with 2 x CMX256A-3200C2 @ 91 each = $182. One thing to ask is if the PNY PC2700 is cas2. At a minimum, make sure you get a brand that does cas2 (or is well known to run at cas2).

Case: $80 The one you want. You can't make a better choice <gg>.

CPU: XP1700+ $61 retail; $57 oem I just don't see a reason why to spend more for a very comparable CPUs after taking into account normal overclock results & overhead.

Video Card: Some form of 9700 Pro. $320-330. 3 days ago Newegg had a Powercolor 9700 Pro @ $275 which was out of stock or on order. They have since pulled it so I'm not sure if either they will be carrying at that price & simply sold out so they are pulling it so as to discourage people from waiting for a restock or if perhaps it was some error in inventory reporting. You could call newegg & ask them about it.


Total: $749

Taking this price and comparing to the Intel option demonstrates the Intel options weakness in suiting your needs as a gamer.
Intel Option 1 is more expensive yet has 256mb less in ram. You'll appreciate the 512mb over the 256mb especially if you're running Windows XP.
Intel Option 2 is more expensive yet your getting slower memory and a slower video card. As I demonstrated above, the slower AMD chip combined with a 9700 Pro is pretty close to the faster P4 combined with the 9500 Pro. Yet, when you decide to upgrade the cpu, you'll find that you have to spend more $ on the INTC chip & you'll be limited by the 9500 Pro rather than upgrading with a cheaper AMD chip & having more headroom for the CPU to fill the 9700 Pro.
Intel Option 3 has the same problem as option 2 with regard to going with the 9500 Pro. And, although it's $100 cheaper, that's equivalent to another 256mb of ram. At that point, you're spending $744 ($5 less than my combo) but will have a 9500 Pro & a P4 (which has the headroom/upgrade path limitations discussed above).

If you have to make some sacrifices in my combo, I'd go with slower memory (quality PC2700 cas2). For some reason Corsair PC3200 cas2 is basically the same price (cheaper by $2 or more expensive by $4) than Corsair PC2700 cas2 at googlegear. You could also wait a few weeks after x-mas to buy your Radeon 9700 Pro. You'll probably be able to pick them up for high $200s. Furthermore, if you decide to cut back on memory for the time being, you could still get the AMD combo with the 9700 Pro for ~$658 instead of the Intel Option 3 with the 9500 Pro & 256mb at $644.

Chris

 

[ArmchairAthlete]

No SATA on the 8RDA+, right?

I'll go with AMD option #1 (with the A7n8x Deluxe) then if I can manage to get that far over budget. The two main reasons for AMD would be that all but one of you said AMD as their first choice, and your benchmarks with the Radeons. It'll be easier if I can shave some bucks off this system somewhere. One big place *could* be that ram deal Optimistic suggested. Tell me what you think of it and if I can overclock to 2000+ or 2100+ using it:

$80 Two 256MB of PNY PC2700 @ 333MHz

That'd save a whole $100 in the RAM department if I can still overclock and won't lose very much performance. If I can get away with that RAM I can afford AMD Option #1 otherwise for sure even with the A7n8x Deluxe and the CD-ROM Drive I need. If I could use this RAM with Intel option #1 I could afford that also (but with a R9500 Pro only). So, how is this RAM?


EDIT: Now that I read this whole post about this "hot deal" it looks like it might be hard to get some. As of now in the last post there some guy said he went to the Best Buy nearest me (same town) and got some apparantly, so I might look there this weekend...



Now, if I can't manage to afford option AMD option #1 I'll have to go with AMD #2 or #3. #2 would have better ram (Corsair CL2) and a better mobo (A7n8x Deluxe) opposed to the 8RDA mobo in #3. However I'd have to step down to a Radeon 9500 Pro in #2. AMD Option #3 Has that $80 for 2x 256MB RAM deal above, an EpoX 8RDA mobo, but has the Radeon 9700 Pro for gaming performance.

If I did have to step down to option #2 or #3 due to budget concerns, #3 would be the better one for gaming due to the video card, right?

I think I'm getting close!

 

[Chris431]

Yea, you're right. Neither EPOX board has SATA. I noticed that the first time around looking at the boards but forgot about it the 2nd time.

If you had to choose b/w AMD #2 or #3, I agree that #3 is your better choice. You're getting a board based on the best Socket A chipset out there. The a7n8x just impliments the "bonus" features superbly. SATA is kind of nice to have but it's more a "just in case I want to upgrade my storage" rather than a necessity. Of the new tech on the A7n8x I use absolutely 0 of it outside the dual DDR. I have no USB 2.0, firewire, or SATA devices and am still using a vortex 2 based sound card. I do use 5 USB slots though. At this point, I and many others would have found the EPOX board as equally useful as the a7n8x. As support for the new features comes out you could always buy PCI cards if you had to have them (or by that time a new motherboard). OTOH, the 9700 Pro is not only technically a superior product as benchmarks demonstrate but also has more overhead for improvement by upgrading the CPU.

I haven't looked into the memory but as it was both a compusa deal & seems to have been quite the popular one given the length of that thread, don't be surprised if Compusa isn't out of those chips. I've read several places that Samsung branded has very good overclockability. You may want to search the forums for info relating to that.

Generally, PC2700 runs at 166mhz. All but the 2400+ & up (iirc) XP's run at 133mhz fsb. While you can run the memory asynchronously (ie. FSB 133mhz/memory 200) you often won't see much of a benefit. Unless you unlock your Athlon, the primary limitation your faced with will be the FSB. Getting over 166fsb/166 on an unlocked 1700+ is unlikely as even that wouldd be 1 hell of an overclock. Generally, I think the 1700+ oc's to 2000-2100+ ratings which is 1670mhz to 1736mhz. At 166 fsb/mem, we're looking at 1826mhz. Consequently, with PC2700, you won't be limited by your memory. Just remembery, you still want cas2 or memory known to run at cas2. I'm currently running my 1600+ at 151/151 so my Corsair 256cas2 is going to waste. But, it will be put to use in the future.

You start to concern yourself with memory when you are looking to overclock by unlocking your CPU such that you can move the multiplier around. So, rather than being stuck with the 1700+'s default multiplier of 11, you can lower it so that you get a faster synchronous fsb/memory rating, such as 170/170 with a multiplier of 10. At any point above 166, you would be stressing the PC2700 & possibly limiting the overclock due to your memory. Even the Barton will be a 166mhz fsb chip so your PC2700 should suffice although you'll immediately be limited in overclocking it & there's no guarantee that Barton will have the ability to unlock as the current chips do.

I hope this helps.

Chris

P.S. Armchair, you may want to edit your personal settings so that you can recieve private messages.

 

[human2k]

You should get an emachine with onboard video/snd/modem/lan/celery1800. Quit wasting your time building when others have done it for you!

 

[ArmchairAthlete]

Ok I think we've narrowed it down to one system. I'll also be able to change the motherboard and/or RAM on this system depending on what I am able to spend when I actually go to buy the stuff. You've showed me that an AMD dual-DDR with the best video card available is the best solution for gaming with my budget.

As for that $80 RAM I think we can throw that out. The Comp USA sale that started that is over now, and it was probably CL3 anyhow. Looked very unreliable and I want to order this stuff online. I probably would have had to make a store do a price match and... ah just forget this.

You are right that I don't need all that extra stuff on the motherboard. I, like you, would probably only use that dual-DDR (at least for a long time). I'll save a lot with the 8RDA and just use my PCI LAN card from the PC I'm on now. That 8RDA doesn't have a Game Port right? (If so I need to use my Sound Blaster Live! Value PCI card which has one, and wouldn't the SBLive have better audio anyhow?) I think I won't be spending extra on this stuff here, I need to buy a fast CD-ROM drive and would like to keep some spending money if possible.

I was originally going to use newegg.com for all this stuff, but it looks like googlegear.com has better prices (except the case). They don't have the big pictures, review system, wish list and other features that newegg.com has, but price is all that really matters now that I know what I'm gonna get.

So here is the list of stuff with the URLs I will be buying each part from. I would much appreciate it if you could check these and make sure this is the right stuff we've chosen, and is all compatible. Don't want anything happening like that A7n8x on newegg.com!




Final System Plans (hopefully )



Motherboard

EPOX EP-8RDA+


$104.50 -Thanks Optimistic


Processor

AMD Athlon XP 1700+/266 FSB Thorougbred Processor CPU 1700+/ 1.47GHz -Retail
(Retail comes with the heatsink and fan which I need, looks like that $57 OEM one is just the processor but you might wanna check this)
http://www.googlegear.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80155-R
EDIT: Newegg actually hiked their price a couple bucks up to $89, gonna use googlegear.com


$63


RAM

Corsair CMX256A-3200C2 256MB PC3200 400Mhz
For overclocking and to be future-proof.


$178 ($89 x 2 sticks)


Case

CHENMING Server Chasis (Workstation Tower) Model DX-01BD 420W BLACK COLOR w/ large acrylic window **Now w/ Front USB ports** AMD Approved Power Supply Front Accessible: 4 x 5.25", 2 x 3.5", Internal: 4 x 3.5". Power Supply: Turbo Link (P4) 420 watts ATX 12V- w/ 2 Case Fans Compare to Antec SX1040 and Save Model#: DX-01BD SPX-02 420W
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?description=11-125-145

pictures

420W should be much more then enough, so even if it isn't the best PSU in the world it should have power to spare. OEM would mean no manual though, right ? No matter if that's true, can't pass up on a case that looks this good and has the features/color I want. (It's going to look very nice when I get the money for a red cold cathode to put in there and get a custom case badge)


$80


CD-ROM Drive

Samsung SC152LEB 52X CD-ROM OEM
Need this because the 48x I was gonna reuse died. Chose this one because of the excellent ratings and reviews at newegg.com, as well as the price. I know it is white and I have a black case, but the case has a black door that covers the drives (think Alienware). See the pics of that case if you aren't sure what I'm talking about.
EDIT: Looking into the possibility of a DVD player now, as long as it'll read normal CDs fast.


$25

Video Card


ATI Radeon 9700 PRO AGP 8X 128MB DDR Video Card w/TV-Out & DVI by PowerColor
Low price... definitely needs to be checked out since the price makes it suspicious.



$275.99

or

Radeon 9500 Pro



$180 @ newegg.com but OEM



Total = $726.49 (With the PowerColor Radeon 9700 Pro)

or

Total = $630.5 (With Radeon 9500 Pro)



Thanks again everyone, this has been a HUGE help. I'm 100% sure I'm getting a much better PC than I would have without making this forum topic.

P.S. Chris431, I turned PMs on. Not sure why they were off, default maybe? Now that I can recieve PMs maybe you could tell me how to overclock this Athlon when it comes like you did, or just give me a link to a good guide on the net.

 

[Chris431]

I need to get to sleep. I'm having some refresh rate problems on 1 of my monitors with the new 9700 Pro & I've been working on various solutions for the last 8 hours to no avail (although Power Strip forces the resolution that is not acceptable to me).

I'll just make a quick note that maybe it was googlegear that had the Powercolor 9700 Pro deal which they were out of stock on (not newegg). If so, they sold out of the first batch & it's understandable why....price. All 9700 Pro's are basically manufactured by a few vendors (it was ATI but ATI itself was using Saphire or something like that). IMO, they're all basically the same at this point (although a few new cards are coming out that aren't, like the Tyan cards).
My quick search on Powercolor products didn't reveal any negatives that I recall. I'd snatch 1 of those puppies up before googlegear is sold out again. They were out when I ordered mine 3 days ago (or they hadn't yet arrived). At $275 nothing on the market can beat the price. EDIT/UPDATE: According to googlegear the Powercolor 9700 Pro has an underclocked vpu at 300 instead of 325. Whether or not it also has slower ram hasn't been determined.

Here is a review of 1 at Hardocp http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=Mzcz

Had I paid for the Gigabyte 9700 Pro I just received I'd be pissed.

1 of those has your name all over it....couldn't have had better timing. Seriously, at those prices you may want to order asap (after reasonable due diligence).

BTW, the software that comes with the Gigabyte is PowerDVD 4, Motocross Mania, Rune, Serious Sam, & Heavy Metal FAKK. These are somewhat dated games. There is also a "light" (aka demo) version of both Oni & 4x4 Evo.

This is a link to Powercolor. http://www.cptech.com.tw/powercolor/web/

Chris

 

[Ben88]

Why are you getting a cd-rom drive when you can get a cd-rw for almost the same price? Also, if you're getting a 1700+ I would get a 9500 pro and not a 9700 pro. For a 9700 pro I would go with at least a 2000+ or 2.4 intel p4.

 

[ArmchairAthlete]

Why are you getting a cd-rom drive when you can get a cd-rw for almost the same price?

I already have a working CD-RW drive that will be reused in this new PC. But the CD-Read speed is 12x, very slow, so I need to get a CD-ROM drive.

I might look at a DVD drive since that PowerColor Radeon 9700 Pro is just fine and will save me like $40. I'd like to be able to play DVDs and Radeons come with good DVD software.

Also, if you're getting a 1700+ I would get a 9500 pro and not a 9700 pro. For a 9700 pro I would go with at least a 2000+ or 2.4 intel p4.

#1 it won't be a 1700+ because it is being overclocked to 2100+.

#2 this video card will last longer and will obviously be reused when I upgrade the CPU and probably even when I eventually get another mobo in a few years. A more powerful processor will help the card alot, and I'll have a more powerful processor eventually.

#3 That PowerColor Radeon 9700 Pro is only about $80 more than a Radeon 9500 Pro, but is much more powerful from all benchmarks I've seen.


EDIT: Forgot to mention my post above with the system plans has been updated with the chosen vid card.