Best gaming mobo/processor/ram/case for under $500? (AMD or Intel?)

[ArmchairAthlete]

I'll make this simpler than my last post trying to figure out exactly what to buy in an effort to get a better response.

I've got $700 to spend on a new PC. $200 is being spent on a Radeon 9500 Pro (I've done my homework in this area and it seems the clear choice). That leaves $500 for the other parts I do need, the motherboard, processor, RAM, and case. (HD, CD-RW, Monitor, etc I am reusing). Keep in mind that I can start with 256MB RAM and upgrade that easily later when I have the cash. This machine will be used primarily for GAMING, so performance there is a must! I'll probably be using newegg.com for the stuff as well, but if you have a better site with the stuff you've chosen include that link. I have looked around hardware sites to try to choose a setup on my own, but would also like suggestions here. So...


Pick out the best mobo, processor, RAM, and case combo for gaming for under $500!

EDIT: Overclocking, although I haven't done it before, is a definite possibility as long as the system is stable. Also, from the research I've done, a P4 2.4 GHZ at $191 on newegg.com seems the best value for a processor for this PC.

 

[aselkirk]

When looking for a motherboard keep some of the boards from Soltek in mind. While they're not the greatest boards, for the amount of money you have it should work wonders.

What about an Athlon XP+ model for the processer?

Alex

 

[cmdrdredd]

I'd go for the leadtek K7NCR18D-PRO Nforce2 board for $120 at newegg pair that with an Athlon Xp 1800+ for $78 retail boxed or a Xp 2000+ for $91 retail boxed

Then go for an Antec PLUS660AMG Midtower with 350Watt Trupower PSU for $94 or maybe the Enermax CS-3171L-B3A for $85 with 350Watt PSU

For the memory (if you want to overclock) 2 sticks of Corsair XMS2700 DDR333 Cas2 memory 256Mb each at $99 each or go cheap (non overclocking) and get 2 sticks of Crucial PC2700 256MB at $75 each giving you 512MB memory and running dual channel with Nforce 2.

if you went with the most expensive parts I listed from newegg your total would be $503 + a bit of shipping.

in other words

Leadtek Nforce2: $120
AthlonXP 2000+: $91
Antec Midtower w/350Watt PSU: $94
2 sticks of 256MB Corsair XMS2700: $198

Grand total of: $503

 

[cmdrdredd]

if you go the P4 route stick with the same case but get either the Albatron PX845PEV Pro II for $132 or the EPOX 4PEA+ for $145

then a P4 2.4B for $191

Then a single stick of Corsair XMS3200 256MB for $103

you'd be looking at roughly $520 for the P4 system

 

[Wuzup101]

I have to say I like cmdrdredd's idea, though I might look at a less expensive motherboard then an Nforce. You shuld be able to find a decent board for around $80ish from a decent company. (as you can see I don't have any in mind offhand b/c i'm not really shopping for one).... the rest of the stuff there would make you a nice system...and the lower cost mobo would make your total w/ shipping about 500

 

[ArmchairAthlete]

"For the memory (if you want to overclock) 2 sticks of Corsair XMS2700 DDR333 Cas2 memory 256Mb each at $99 "

Why not get one stick ? Look at this deal on newegg.com:

"CORSAIR MEMORY XMS Extreme Memory Speed Series CMX512-2700C2 PC2700 DDR RAM 333MHz w/ Heat Spreader - OEM "
Thats only $180 and frees up a RAM slot and $20...

And here is an article on andandtech.com comparing CPU speed between processors we're talking about:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1718&p=11

The AMD chips you're suggesting are a little under half the price of that Pentium, but are less powerful. You want me to go the AMD route cmdrdredd so I can buy another 256MB of RAM, right? So, you're saying an AMD XP 2000+ with 512MB RAM beats the P4 2.4ghz with 256 MB? (Can anyone confirm that's true?)

And going the P4 route for $520, would it be safe to knock off the $20 over by getting this case? (Not quite $20 cheaper, but I like the window and door that covers my white drives that would otherwise look bad on a dark case).

Or maybe a cheaper motherboard? Onboard LAN and sound aren't a must.


Thanks for the help.

 

[cmdrdredd]

2 sticks because it is Nforce2 which uses Dual channel DDR so 2 sticks makes your bandwidth almost double!

I'd stay with Nforce2 if I were doing a AMD system because of the memory bandwidth it has over Via and SIS counterparts right now.

As for that case it's good. I recommended Antec and Enermax for the Power supplies which are top of the line.

 

[ArmchairAthlete]

So everyone, what's faster?

P4 2.4ghz with 1 stick Corsair XMS3200 256MB

or

Athlon XP 2000+ with 2 sticks Corsair XMS2700 DDR333

(I don't think I'll be able to find an article that directly compares those two combos)


I guess that's the AMD vs Intel in my price range. If we can settle this all I have to do is pin down the best motherboard that also fits in the price range and I'm ready to order right after Christmas.

As for overclocking it looks like I can save some cash if I don't. Would overclocking one of these setups be risky? Would it be worth it?

 

[Chris431]

If you're going with AMD, an nforce2 board is the board to get. I really like my Asus a7n8x Deluxe but there are cheaper boards out there. I think the a7n8x Deluxe has the best layout of the bunch. There is no acr slot/riser board required for firewire, 5 PCI slots, 4 usb ports on i/o panel (2 more available via included bracket, 6 audio jacks including the SPDIF out on the i/o panel, 2 ethernet ports, etc.

These articles comparing nforce2 boards should assist in making your selection.
Tom's Hardware 3 way comparison
Anandtech's 6way comparison
Of course, Neoseeker will assist in finding various reviews of the individual boards


Going with an XP1700+ ($57 at newegg) which should overclock to 2000+ ratings without unlocking will save you some $. I don't think the 1800+ will overclock much more than the 1700+ but I could be wrong on that.

I'd go with Corsair CMX256A-3200C2 256MB PC3200 400Mhz for $91/each. This should keep you future proof for the Barton core.

XP1700+ $61 retail; $57 oem
2 x CMX256A-3200C2 @ 91 each = $182
Case (i have no opinion) $100
a7n8x = $131 (at newegg)

Total: $474

I hope this helps,

Chris

 

[optimistic]

Well until a dual memory channel motherboard comes out for Intel, I say the nForce system will give you the better peformance out of the two. And the extra 256MB of ram doesn't hurt speed any too

Here's a combo you can think about:

$96 EPOX EP-8RDA
- NVIDIA nFORCE2 CHIPSET
- Max. 3 GB unbuffered PC3200/PC2700/PC2100/PC1600 non-ECC DDR RAM
- 1xAGP(8X)/6xPCI/ Ultra DMA/133, 4 drives max. 6xUSB 2.0 ports
- Realtek ALC650E 6-channel full-duplex integrated sound
$93 AMD ATHLON XP 2100+ 1.73GHZ
$80 Two 256MB of PNY PC2700 @ 333MHz
________________________
Total $269 w/o shipping - Why spend $500? I'd save that towards a nice LCD monitor


I don't know about cases, but I like this one.
Antec/Chieftec SX630
- Comes in black too.
- Buy it for $53 shipped here
And then there's this $43

 

[Ben88]

Wait for a fry's cpu/mobo deal if you have fry's in your area. I picked up a retail boxed 2000+ and an Albatron KX400+ pro for like $140. That's $70 for cpu and $70 for mobo and that was like 3 months ago. My setup is rock solid I love my Albatron mobo and will gladly buy another one of their products. If you go the intel route I would pick up a granite bay mobo and a guaranteed C1 stepping cpu. It's hard to find sites that guarantee C1 but there are a few and from what i've seen it's well worth it. Good luck

 

[ArmchairAthlete]

Well since everyone here says AMD is the way to go, after that choosing the motherboard is pretty easy. Between what you guys have said and what I've just read, nForce2 is the one choice for an AMD chip. After that I just looked at the mobo roundups for nForce2, and the Asus board was the fastest one. Those extra features like onboard LAN and sound, while they aren't a MUST, are also good since I won't have to buy a sound card or NIC for the PC I am using now. I've also heard very good things about Asus, especially from a relative of mine I've also been talking about on the issue of building my PC.

Optimistic, your combo is undoubtedly a very good value, but once you add in $80 for my case it is still only $376. Since I can afford a system that's a bit faster with a better mobo/faster RAM/faster proc I think I'll go with Chris413's plan. With that plan the entire system would be ready for overclocking should I choose to do so, and I want to leave that option open at least.

Parts:

Motherboard
Asus Motherboard for AMD Athlon/XP/Duron Processors, Model# A7N8X (support AMD XP2800)
Specifications:
CPU Supported: Socket A AMD Athlon/XP/Duron (600MHz - 2.8.GHz up to XP2800)Throughbred core CPU ready
Chipset: NVIDIA nForce2 SPP
FSB: 333/266/200MHz
IDE: 2x channel ATA133
RAM: 3x 184-pin DIMM Sockets(PC3200/PC2700/PC2100/PC1600 non-ECC DDR Ram)
Slots: 1x AGP (Pro/8X), 5x PCI
Ports: 6x USB(2.0),
ATX Form Factor Model#: A7N8X Special Free FedEx Saver Shipping

link

$131 @ newegg.com


PROCESSOR
AMD Athlon XP 2000+/266 FSB Processor CPU - 2000+/ 1.67GHz -Retail Box
BOX2000DMT3C. 3 Years Warranty. The AMD Athlon XP processor with QuantiSpeed architecture powers the next generation in computing platforms, delivering extra performance for cutting-edge applications and an extra-ordinary computing experience.world's highest overall performing PC processor.
Specifications:
CPU: 1.67 GHz
Type: 2000 XP
Cache: 256K
BUS: 266MHz
Socket A (PGA)
Retail (Box with Heatsink and Fan) Model#: AXP2000BOX Special Free FedEx Saver Shipping

link

$91 @ newegg.com


RAM
2x Corsair CMX256A-3200C2 256MB PC3200 400Mhz 32Mx64 184 DIMM Cas2 Memory w/Heat Spreader Retail
Lifetime Warranty ***(Free 2nd Day)***
*NOTE* I wanted to buy everything at one website, but saving $20 at googlegear is what I'll do.

link

$182 ($91 per stick x 2) @ googlegear.com


CASE
CHENMING Server Chasis (Workstation Tower) Model DX-01BD 420W BLACK COLOR w/ large acrylic window **Now w/ Front USB ports** AMD Approved Power Supply Front Accessible: 4 x 5.25", 2 x 3.5", Internal: 4 x 3.5". Power Supply: Turbo Link (P4) 420 watts ATX 12V- w/ 2 Case Fans Compare to Antec SX1040 and Save Model#: DX-01BD SPX-02 420W -OEM FedEx Saver Shipping $18.00
*NOTE* I know you guys didn't reccomend this one, but I really like the color/design/window (see the pics), and a 420W rated PSU should be fine to provide at least what the 350W rated ones you guys suggested do.

link with pics

$80 @ newegg.com






Total: $484


(When I include the Radeon 9500 Pro and shipping, the total comes to exactly $700! lol)


So that's what I'm pretty set on buying at this point then. If anyone has an idea with better performance that stays within the price range, feel free to suggest it. Thanks again to everyone who's helped me get the most for my money.

Now I have a few questions about overclocking the setup listed above.
Would it be very risky and possibly destroy this equipment which I cannot afford to replace?
Would I need to buy additional fans, thermal paste, a different heatsink, etc ?
Would OCing this setup be difficult to do? (Are there easy guides to print out and use?)
If you owned the machine described above, and play a lot of games, would you overclock (and not just to say you did)?

 

[Chris431]

I'm sure you'll enjoy the new system. I just upgraded a month or so ago with an a7n8x/2xCMX256A-3200C2/XP1600+ AGOIA core from a BH6/celeron oc'd 600 @ 900mhz. With my Geforce2 mx being the weakest link I just ordered a Gigabyte 9700 Pro (had it not been an x-mas gift, I also would have opted for a 9500Pro). The next upgrade will be a Barton.

And, looking at the expenditure, I wonder if there is a theme here on the cost to completely overhaul a PC for the average user.
Including the 9700, I'll have spent $730. ($150 for the a7n8x, ~$200 for the ram, $54 xp1600, $330 for the 9700 pro). Oh wait, I forgot the Truepower 550 PSU (overkill) for $105 (now at $835 )

I'll plug the old components in a non-functioniong PC someone is giving me this week. (Not sure what components in it are non-functioning....hopefully not the HD & hopefully the case is ATX). For $835, I get a fairly top of the line PC (1600+ now the weakest link) & a 2nd PC that is more than enough for the average PC user.

Now, what to do with that 2nd PC? Maybe a media center (PVR, MP3 player, etc.)? Maybe dust collector.

Chris

 

[ArmchairAthlete]

I've been reading around more, and really I'm not sure that that an Athlon XP 2000+ would beat a 2.4 ghz P4 even with more RAM and dual channel DDR. This is based on some benchmarks I've seen. Take a look...

This is comparing benchmarks conducted using "Quake 3 Arena Demo 001", both at 1024x768

Intel Pentium Setup:

http://www6.tomshardware.com/mainboard/20021204/sis648-10.html

2.26 Ghz P4
133 Mhz FSB (The P4 system I was gonna make in the same price range was 533 Mhz FSB)
256 MB PC3200 CL2 Corsair (one stick only here like what I would have to use at first)
GeForce4 ti4200
MSI 648 Max (MS-6585) Motherboard (only $102 @ newegg.com, this was what I was considering for my P4 setup)

250.3 Frames Per Second

VS.

AMD Athlon Setup:

http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20021001/xp_2800-10.html

Athlon XP 2000+ (the chip I'd buy if I went AMD)
166 Mhz FSB
Asus A7N8X (NVIDIA NForce 2) Motherboard (note: this is the same exact one I was considering, dual DDR in this benchmark)
2 x 256 MB DDR 400, Corsair, CL 2.0, PC 3200 (same RAM once again)
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro (Note: This card blows the one the P4 system above has away, and is even more than I am getting)

240.8 Frames Per Second (Same "Demo 001" in Q3, same resolution)


Is there something I'm missing here? Or did the Athlon system I was going to buy, with even a far better graphics card, do much worse than a P4 system that was much weaker than the one I was going to buy in the same price range?
Maybe there's something I missed in these articles, could someone look at those two URLs and compare also?

I'm really not sure I'd go the AMD route after seeing this... no one here suggests the P4 route?

I need to look at more benchmarks on systems very similar to the P4 and Athlon options I have...

In one of those benchmarks I also saw, a P4 2.4 Ghz in an Asus P4T533-C (Intel i850E) with 2x 256 MB RDRAM sticks, and using the 533Mhz FSB that I would got a whopping 319.7 FPS in the same Q3A demo using the Radeon 9700 Pro that the Athlon had in the test above. Interesting...

I'm so confused!

 

[farscape]

There are a lot of AMD people here.

I tend to agree w/optimistic's choises, but I would bump up to a 2400+. It's a C note more but with the n-force board, you'll have the ability to OC W/O having to unlock the CPU. Should be a nice clocker.
I've done most of my buying at M-Wave, and have never had a problem there. Their "m-wave branded memory" has been stable for me too, so I'd look at that also.

2400+ 199.28 w/fan, 179.14 w/o fan
Memory 52.40/256 stick
Epox 8RDA 104.50
ANTEC SLK3700AMB MID TOWER W/SLK350 350W (PENTIUM 4 READY) ATX POWER SUPPLY 72.00


'scape

 

[oldfart]

Albatron 845PE $85
P4 2.4B $190
256 Meg Corsair XMS PC3200 $91
Chieftec (Antec) case w 450 watt supply $68

Total = 434. I would go for 512 Meg of ram for another $80. If you wanted to save a few $$ you could go for cheaper ram. The 2.4 should easily overclock to 2.7 - 2.8 range.

 

[ArmchairAthlete]

I guess there are a lot of AMD people here...

Thanks for the help Farscape, but with a 2400+ and 2 sticks of that RAM I'll go over the price limit with everything included, and probably still not beat a P4's performance at the same price from what I've heard.

Keep in mind P4's can be overclocked too, and quite nicely from what I've heard.

Thanks for the P4 suggestion oldfart. I'm checking out the board and case online now.

 

[oldfart]

Newegg has good deals on Chieftec cases. There are also full towers if that is your preference.

 

[ArmchairAthlete]

Newegg has good deals on Chieftec cases. There are also full towers if that is your preference.

A full tower is just too big to haul to LANs, and I don't think I'll ever need that many bays. I have a mini tower now, but it only has one 5 1/2" bay which is insufficient. I found a great ChenMing case on newegg.com that I really like for a bit more. Looks just like Antec/Chieftec and I've heard ChenMing supplies the cases and those companies just resell. Here's the link:

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?description=11-125-145
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?description=11-125-145

EDIT: Aww newegg doesn't have the case in stock, I just hope they restock before I buy it right after Xmas.

I'm still trying to find a review on that specific Albatron board, couldn't find one at Anandtech.com. Looks good. The MSI 648 Max also looks very good, not sure how it stacks up to the 845PE chipset though. It is only $102 at newegg.com, but if the chipset on that Albatron board is faster that'd be a better buy since it is only $85.

 

[Chris431]

Re: Am I missing something here.

It's hard to compare benchmarks & articles that aren't using mostly common hardware. In this case there is a key component difference, the ti4200 & the 9700 Pro. Furthermore, imo, at this point Quake 3 benchmarks are good for 1 thing - demonstrating driver & software optimization differences. Throw UT2003 at a 9700 Pro on an XP 2000+ versus a P4 2.2 with a ti4200 & there won't even be a comparison. And, unlike the Quake 3 comparison (where the fps is in the hundreds), the differences in UT2003 would be noticable to the gamer. I wouldn't be overly concerned about 1 benchmark. XPs domination on SPEC Viewperf 7 probably isn't representative of the XP v. P4.

I think the XP 2800+ cross comparison article that you posted is a better source for making CPU comparisons since there are plenty of speed variations & benchmarks to make the comparisons with. But, again, you're going to find differences in software optimizations & areas where 1 cpu is stronger than the other (which may or may not be due to software optimizations, ie. SSE2. Look at the Newtek Lightwave 7.5 benchmark results. In the general system benchmarks, you often find that ghz rating for ghz rating the CPUs aren't that much different in performance & 95% of people wouldn't notice the difference in day to day use. Overall, I found that in most programs/benchmarks, the P4 v. XP provide pretty similar performance although each seems to have a few programs/functions that it seems strong in, ie.P4 wins in Lightwave, Athlon in MPEG-4 encoding (both programs).

You need to look at your needs along with what features are being offered on the motherboard (& if you even need them) & overall comfort with any upgrade path that may be offered for each motherboard/ram combo. In today's systems, unless you're looking for the PC to perform 1 specific function (ie. 3d rendering) or know exactly what programs the PC will predominantly be used with (look at the MP3 encoding benchmarks....2 different programs yield dramatically different resuls), it's difficult to say 1 CPU is significantly better than the other equally rated cpu. IMO, set a budget (as you have) & find components that are going to offer the most options that YOU need along with a decent upgrade path if you so choose in the future. Following these general guidelines, more likely than not, no matter which system you went with, you'll be more than satisfied.

When I decided on AMD, I was looking to spend the least yet have the latest technologies & have a reasonably cheap upgrade path for the CPU (I wasn't looking to buy the top of the line CPU). AMD, given the lower introductory prices of its chips, will offer that cheaper upgrade path with the Barton sooner than INTC who prices their new chips higher & keeps them more expensive for a longer period of time. The a7n8x offers the latest technologies including SATA (although I currently use SCSI), firewire (although not new), USB 2, 8x AGP (2x, 4x, 6x, etc. = irrelevant )& a great audio chip with dolby digital support (which, I'm not using since I still have my Vortex 2 for the A3d support....that may change as I need a sound card for extra PC I'll be making with spare parts). For upgrade paths, SATA is probably a feature you should look at having & the Albatron 845PE doesn't offer it (although I'm sure you'll be able to find a PCI SATA card eventually).

I'd still encourage you to get a 1700+ over the 2000+ & save a few dollars. The 1700+ has healthy overhead for overclocking to 2000/2100+ levels while the 2000 has little to no overhead. If you want to increase the FSB/memory, the 1700+ is going to give you more room without having to unlock the chip.
I'm not sure what the reasons for choosing the 2000+ over a 1700+ are other than that you get a guaranteed performance of 2000+. OTOH, if you want to move the FSB up significantly without unlocking the chip, you're most likely SOL with the 2000+.

And, remember to deduct the $32 difference in case prices if you go with oldfart's recommendation
Oldfarts total = $525 (w/512mb)
My total = $442

The difference you'll most likely percieve - very little.
An $80 difference gets you a Radeon 9700 (not Pro) instead of a 9500 Pro or another 256mb.

Shopping for new PC components....fun, fun, frustrating. The best thing to keep in mind is that given a fixed budget, you're not likely to percive much of a difference no matter which CPU/motherboard you get as long as you stick with quality, stable components.

Chris

 

[Ketteringo]

Just go here...

 

[oldfart]

And, remember to deduct the $32 difference in case prices if you go with oldfart's recommendation
Oldfarts total = $525 (w/512mb)
My total = $442

Yeah, but my system is faster Yours is a 1700+ that will overclock to ~ 2000 - 2100+ levels. Mine will go to 2.7 - 2.8 GHz, maybe more levels.

You can check out the Albatron review here at Anandtech

I agree on the big tower case. Not my thing either.

 

[Chris431]

2 Albatron reviews here

.Neoseeker is a great site for finding reviews on products.

Chris

 

[Chris431]

Yeah, but my system is faster Yours is a 1700+ that will overclock to ~ 2000 - 2100+ levels. Mine will go to 2.7 - 2.8 GHz, maybe more levels.

Hehehehe. Not in SPEC Viewperf 7. <gg> Given the dollar difference & the ability to upgrade from a 9500 Pro to a 9700, which would be a faster gaming machine? Your P4 with a 9500 pro or a 1700+ with a 9700 (or for ~$40 more a 9700 Pro)?

Perhaps, you'll throw in $25 to make sure he doesn't go over budget with your system?

Chris

 

[oldfart]

Heh! I came in UNDER BUDGET! which is pretty rare. $500 was the budget, I came in @ $434. If you went with normal ram instead of Corsair, could even get 512 Meg and still be within $500. Who the heck cares about SPEC Viewperf 7?? The P4 @ 2.7 - 2.8 will outperform the 1700 @ 2100 in every app that people actually use.