Best Gaming LCD as of Sept 2007?

[Arc337]

Hello,

I'm new to the forums, but I came here because the LCD thread is full of people that are quite knowledgeable regarding LCD monitors, so here's my current situation:

I have a decent gaming rig (e6400, 2GB of Elpida G-Skill, and a 7800GT) and I am a hardcore Counter-Strike player. The monitor I am using now is a Hyundai L90D+, which was the LCD to have when I got it in late 2005, but I'm guessing it's real world response time, like THG reviews it (http://www.tomshardware.com/20...s-compared/page5.html) isn't great across the grey spectrum.


I'll cut to the chase:
I'm looking for the fastest LCD monitor available. I don't care about size, I don't care about resolution, I don't care about panel type (although true 8-bit would be nice) and I don't care about the aspect ratio. All that really matters is that it has the lowest possible response time across the color and grey spectrum, and has next to zero maximum input lag (under 9MS). Also, I'd like it if it could do more than 60Hz without affecting performance (for example, the VX922 does 75Hz).

Basically, I don't like CRTs, but if they were thin, weighed a lot less, and didn't contain a particle accelerator, I would buy one because they don't have these problems.

I checked the LCD thread and read it over, and I've been researching for quite a while. I've found that almost all 20in.+ LCDs have a maximum input lag over 10ms, and that is unacceptable for me . Also, the top 3 Hardcore Gaming LCDs in the LCD thread stickied at the top came out quite a while ago (I can't even find them on Newegg now) so I was wondering if there was anything that came out recently that could best them.

I'm willing to spend up to $400 for the best, but I'd prefer to spend around $250.

Comments? Suggestions? Am I just plain stupid? Should I wait (I need it in the next month and a half)?

 

[AuDioFreaK39]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824001096

Samsung 226BW
22" widescreen 2ms response time
can do 75Hz at its native resolution (1680x1050)

$279.99 after rebates

hope that helps

 

[Arc337]

Thanks for the advice, I think I overlooked this thread, titled "Input Lag":

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...id=31&threadid=2090410

from this info here it looks like the 226BW's little brother, the 206BW, is the king. Latency is almost identical and the 206BW has ZERO max input lag in this test. I may have found what I was looking for, but as I'm looking at newegg reviews, I'm seeing that its a YMMV on what panel you get, there's a high occurence of dead pixels, and they make a buzzing noise (which might just drive me insane when I'm playing a game). Is the 226BW a safer bet? I don't really need a 22" screen, though.

EDIT: I found a brand new VX922 successor, possibly: http://www.viewsonic.com/produ...lays/xseries/vx1932wm/

it's at newegg and it has perfect reviews so far. Also, it's capable of an 80Hz refresh rate!

What's anyone's experience with their new 2ms LCD? Any other suggestions?

 

[Pain999]

I can't see any lag on my 206BW, no dead pixels and noise either, plus it is relatively inexpensive for 1680x1050

Most LCDs that take anything over 60Hz just drop the extra frames internally anyway so there is no point in having anything higher.

 

[j0j081]

I have the 206BW and no buzzing noise whatsoever. Also, Samsung has a zero dead pixel policy so if you get a bad one you should be able to swap it within the first few months of purchase.

 

[CP5670]

You want to be looking at the 2ms 19" TNs in the LCD thread. They're still the fastest LCDs available despite being a bit old (heck, the best allround LCD, the 20WMGX2, came out in February 2006 ). As a general rule, the input lag increases sharply with the resolution, so stick with the 19" models. These monitors don't actually support more than 60hz though, as they drop frames even if you set them to something higher.

To be honest, if you're sensitive enough to ghosting and image delay that you want the fastest LCD at all costs (which have mediocre image quality), chances are that you're not going to be satisfied with those either. They all ghost and lag to some degree.

 

[Arc337]

Sorry to burst your bubbles, but the 20WMGX2 isn't exactly top-notch for 1680x1050 games anymore.
Iiyama E2201W VS the 20WMGX2:

Ghosting Test: http://www.digitalversus.com/d...52&mo2=95&p2=969&ph=12

Input Lag: http://www.digitalversus.com/d...52&mo2=95&p2=969&ph=12

Iiyama E2201W VS the top Hardcore Gaming LCD from the LCD Buyer's Guide: http://www.digitalversus.com/d...8&mo2=112&p2=1134&ph=9

as you can see, the 22" has ZERO input lag, and destroys the BenQ FP93GX from a year ago. I think the list needs updating.

I'm really debating between this E2201W that I showed against the 20WMGX2, or the 206BW from Samsung, but I heard the Samsung is a gamble with the panels and the buzzing occurs when you turn the brightness down.

 

[CP5670]

Sorry to burst your bubbles, but the 20WMGX2 isn't exactly top-notch for 1680x1050 games anymore.
Iiyama E2201W VS the 20WMGX2:

I know that. I said "best allround LCD." The 20WMGX2 will blow away the other one in terms of image quality even if it's slower.

It's interesting that the FP93GX has in fact been displaced by a 22" one in terms of speed though. I hadn't heard of that iiyama model before, but it definitely looks faster.

 

[xtknight]

I can't find the Prolite E2201W for sale anywhere in the US which is why it isn't in the list. Skeptical of "0 ms" input lag with that kind of overdrive too. (The 206BW also measures 0.) I would wait for another source to confirm it.

 

[Arc337]

I'm trying to get my hands on one, and if I do I'll confirm/disprove the input lag results against a CRT.

If I can't, I guess it's a 206BW for me. Where did you all get your 206BWs? Is there panel differences on this model? Does it have the buzzing problem?

I wonder if there's any other models like the Prolite carried by other brands. What model of TN panel do you think it uses? What gives it the zero input lag? Would that be the panel, or a chip that Iiyama picked out?

 

[newschool]

Arc, I am in the exact same situation as you. In fact , what game do you play, competively I guess..? I am on a CAL-M team in Cod2.

I am going to buy the BenQ FP93GX+. It is the updated version of the FP93GX with a switching acceleration system that use higher voltage to switch the liquid crystals faster. It has only a 1280 x1024 native resolution that means that I will still be able to run my games at 100, 150 or 200 FPS. This important for me because FPS lags can affect gaming as much as PINGS or LCD responses times.

BTW did you know that your USB mouse has a lag of 8 ms at the default USB clock rate (125HZ) ?

 

[FireChicken]

Arc you sound like a hardcore player like me. The 206Bw will not do 75hz at native resolutions. Nothing above 19' (1280x1024) will do 75 hz at native res. Now there are a few that can do 75 hz at scaled down resolutions. There are is on viewsonic 22" VG2230wm that will do 75hz at 1440x900 and this monitor as almost no input lag. But you have to set up custom resolutions in your vid driver. I ended up getting the HPw2207 one review showing input lag is here They are all TN panels. But if you dont care about color accurracy or gamut, viewing angles. Then a TN should be fine for your needs.

 

[Arc337]

Wow, I wasn't aware of that HPw2207! Looks great. I'm wondering how it compares with the Iiyama e2201w (I'm still trying to get one). My graphics card should be able to handle an upscale in resolution without affecting my FPS, so I'm not worried about anything like that. I am aware of the polling rate. Mine is currently at 500Hz.

It looks like overdrive technology affects ghosting and input lag after reading some of those PRAD reviews. Newschool, do you have a review on the FP93GX+ that shows its input lag and real-world response time?

Panels other than TN just aren't up to my standards for gaming performance yet, so I have no choice but to get a TN.

 

[jasnite123]

Hey Arc337, I own a VX924. I know it supposedly gets up to 30ms (tomshardware review cited) in certain conditions but was advertised as 3ms. I am posting because I own this product and I can add my experience:

I have to tell you it's native res is 1280x1024. I have been running it faster than supposed to at 87hz for 2 years now with no problems. I don't know about "dropping frames" I have never heard of that but I can tell you, even on an LCD, I can noticeably see that the mouse is smoother at 87hz atleast. Now perhaps it is dropping frames internally???! (whatever that means... is that ghosting??) But the fact remains my monitor has done 87 hz for 2 years and I gamed quite often with it up to 30+ hours a week atleast ( I do turn it off when it's not being used though).

I don't notice much ghosting on this monitor and it is 2 years old people. I would hope there is a very nice gaming 19" LCD out there now but it sounds like the technology is lagging behind which is strange (like they are just making them wider and bigger with no avail).

Yes I can see when my brothers CRT Trinitron is running 60hz versus a higher one instantly it kills my eyes. Yes I can see the difference be tween 75hz and 85hz and probably higher. Maybe it's genetic or my eyes but it is there for me and my pet peeve is when people say YOU CAN'T see passed 60hz etc... yeah but I can.

(gets off soap box) Okay yes I was venting. I want more information on this so let me know what you purchase and find out arc337 I prefer LCDs now too to that damned flashing.

 

[Pain999]

Yes I and most people can see the difference between 60Hz and higher on a CRT, but a LCD is different technology. Your just fooling yourself if you think you can see the difference between 60 and 75 Hz on a LCD.

I would not pay much attention to what the manufacture claims about the response time, use the numbers independent review sites actually measure.

 

[Arc337]

Jasnite, I know what you mean with CRTs. It's like what your grandma tells you about TVs - don't sit too close or you'll hurt your eyes. LCDs are just filtered light - much healthier.

I'm a big fan of independent review sites like prad.de, behardware, xbitlabs, digitalversus (lesnumeriques), tftcentral, and tomshardware. In fact, I learned about the iiyama I keep raving about after just keeping up to date at digitalversus. If you look at this worst-case ghosting test here, the e2201w is actually comparable to a CRT, and beats it in best-case ghosting. It also has no input lag (according to digitalversus)! I've been searching desperately to get one, and even talked to the US sales rep, and I found out that the model hasn't been released in the US yet. However, it is on the European version of Tigerdirect (Misco), so it shouldn't be too hard to get one and review it myself ;D

 

[fujimitsu]

I own 2 226bws, and I've used a 206. You'll be happy with either.

 

[Arc337]

those Samsungs are always a gamble, and the Iiyama on digitalversus outperforms them.

 

[FireChicken]

SO I have been doing some of my own input lag testing on my w2207. Not hard if you have a CRT. All you need is a virtual stopwatch and a digital camera that has a shutter speed of 1/1000. I took a total of 25 pictures and of those 25. 8 showed a some input lag. maybe 6 showed ~20ms lag and the the rest had about 10ms. All in all not terribly bad but a little worse than what prad.de states. So no more than 1 frame lag.

This was also confirmed when I ran 3dmark06 in clone mode and took pictures of the fame count. several pictures showed a 1 frame lag but never any more. I can post picts if anyone wants me to...

 

[Arc337]

Not bad! Definitely sounds better for gaming than the 20WMGX2. Heard of any others with a similar panel?

 

[gtsing]

lol tbh, if your a cs gamer, then your best bet would to get skills by playing the game. buying a new monitor with a better ms time wont help you l2p.

 

[AlucardX]

Originally posted by: Arc337
Sorry to burst your bubbles, but the 20WMGX2 isn't exactly top-notch for 1680x1050 games anymore.
Iiyama E2201W VS the 20WMGX2:

Ghosting Test: http://www.digitalversus.com/d...52&mo2=95&p2=969&ph=12

Input Lag: http://www.digitalversus.com/d...52&mo2=95&p2=969&ph=12

Iiyama E2201W VS the top Hardcore Gaming LCD from the LCD Buyer's Guide: http://www.digitalversus.com/d...8&mo2=112&p2=1134&ph=9

as you can see, the 22" has ZERO input lag, and destroys the BenQ FP93GX from a year ago. I think the list needs updating.

I'm really debating between this E2201W that I showed against the 20WMGX2, or the 206BW from Samsung, but I heard the Samsung is a gamble with the panels and the buzzing occurs when you turn the brightness down.

any idea when the E2201W will be available in the USA?

 

[Arc337]

AlucardX: I'm not sure. One of Iiyama's US sales reps is helping me get one, and I'll ask him once he e-mails me back when they plan on releasing them in the US.

I found a pretty comprehensive review of the e2201w if someone wants to take a look (translated from French): http://www.google.com/translat...=fr%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8

@gtsing: I'll take what you said as a challenge instead of an insult, but next time stay on topic and try hard to use grammatically correct English. PM me and I'll be more than happy to set up a 5v5 scrimmage using my current LCD.

 

[CP5670]

Originally posted by: Pain999
Yes I and most people can see the difference between 60Hz and higher on a CRT, but a LCD is different technology. Your just fooling yourself if you think you can see the difference between 60 and 75 Hz on a LCD.

It seems that there may actually be a few LCDs out there that do true 75hz without dropping frames. The VP930b is reportedly one of them and the 90GX2 may be as well, although I'm not at all sure about the latter. The higher refresh rate is certainly a plus in that case, as it can display 75fps instead of 60fps on many color transitions. Such monitors would only appear in the smaller sizes though since DVI doesn't support 75hz on anything higher than the 1280x1024/1400x900 level.

 

[Arc337]

That's news to me! I wonder why that is? Is it a DVI bandwidth limit? What is all this I hear about some 120Hz LCDs coming out (which I assume will be running at least 1366x768)? How will they counter this limit?