Best fat burner/energy booster? i.e.Stacker, Xenadrine...

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Wingznut
You go from undereating and popping ECA's to "50-60 beers a week", and you criticize people on the Atkins plan???

nice way to attack the side issues....any spelling mistakes I have made?

Where am I critizing them...I am simply explaining it is not a new diet and not as safe as many believe.

It's design is perfect for the short-term, just like the ECA stack....however going on Atkin's too long will KILL you....with ECA you develop tolerance.

Many people cheat on the Atkins....one cheat and you now go out of Ketosis....

When I wrestled we used to take litmus paper and check it in the morning...you can drop weight fast on it.

Also my exercise regimine has been a 20 year deal. So my beer phase was 3 months ago, my undereating was 7 years ago.

My explaination is I am not a casual or newcomer to these things and also I have studied it in-depth at college level. I learned why things worked and used myself as the guinea pig a lot of times. I got into Pro-hormones and those definitely worked well at a price of nearly $500 though. Steroids I know worked, many people I worked out with would do them regularly. Easiest source is veternarians here, I live in Polo and race horse country....in some barns you can see bottles of Winstrol-V out in the open.

I will also say most there are many people out there that read a book or two and now think they know it all....or they get into a gym for 4 months and now think they know the best workouts.

Believe what you will....I am merely reporting my results that I have witnessed personally.

 

[SludgeFactory]

Originally posted by: M0oG0oGaiPan
DNP

Ever take it?

 

[yoda291]

Here's a question because I just don't know...

Why is ephedrine bad for you? How is it that it is fatal? because you always hear that "moderate" amounts can be fatal, but I never understood why.

 

[whaleskinrug]

Originally posted by: yoda291
Here's a question because I just don't know...

Why is ephedrine bad for you? How is it that it is fatal? because you always hear that "moderate" amounts can be fatal, but I never understood why.

it increases heart rate and blood pressure, so if you have existing problems it can be dangerous. or if you take too much.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: DJ Fuji
Do any of you ever do cardio after taking ephedrine? I always avoid it because cardio for me isn't a light jog. Cardio is something on the order of 6-8 miles at around 80% of sprinting speed. That raises your heart rate so much, several Marines have died from heart attacks while doing cardio + ephedrine. Most supplement companies don't warn against this, but i suspect they don't expect people to be pushing their heart rates that high, either.

You have to know your body....I have a naturally low pulse, even now it's around 65 out of shape....when I run regularly it gotten as low as 40-50.

My first week on ECA I don't run....after that I do. I was running at a 6.2-6.5MPH pace 30-45mins. I did this at the end of my workouts. I would literally be soaked....I made a mistake of not drinking enough water during these times (I was running this distance and pace twice a day, every day).

When I am consulting someone about starting it I tell them the first thing they need to do is get a baseline for their vitals. Take them several times, a different times of the day, over a two week period or more. Then when they start take 1 and only 1 ECA capsule....then about 30mins later see where their vitals are....3-4 hours later take 1 more and see....the 3-4 hours take the last 1.....I know my own body....but many that are asking me questions have never exercised and have no idea. Not everyone was involved in sports as a kid.

Once you know your body is not going crazy, then take the second capsule/tablet....check them again. ECA will raise my pulse about 10-15 the first week and about 5-10 after that...some it can jack it up 20 or more. This is where the obese and unfit get into trouble....they are already hovering around a dangerously high pulse, then take ECA or another stimulant and then overdo it in the gym thinking they can take off a lifetime of weight in one workout.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: yoda291
Here's a question because I just don't know...

Why is ephedrine bad for you? How is it that it is fatal? because you always hear that "moderate" amounts can be fatal, but I never understood why.

The honest answer is *anything* can be bad for some people.

The level of ephedrine you take is identical to OTC asthma medication....these are asthma patients taking it without problems...in the same dosage.

The level of caffeine is 200mg....again quite normal, but also not well tolerated by some

The level of aspirin is the same you take for a headache....many do not tolerate aspirin at all, leading to ulcers and excessive blood thinning. In reality, the aspirin part is the 'more dangerous to most' part.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: yoda291
Here's a question because I just don't know...

Why is ephedrine bad for you? How is it that it is fatal? because you always hear that "moderate" amounts can be fatal, but I never understood why.

Ephedrine isn't bad for you, only if you take it at excessive dosages, don't drink water(you're dehydrated), and/or increase your heartrate to extremes while on it. Ephedrine speeds up your heart and makes you thermogenic which increases your body temperature...

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: Staley8

Originally posted by: Nutdotnet

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I believe that the aspirin is not to counter headaches but rather it has a synergetic (if that's the dumb word to use) effect when combined with the other two substances. Thins your blood or something (?).

Anyway you could at least in the past buy pure ephedrine tablets from various supplement companies. I know I did in canada some years back.

As with all such threads I have to say now that if you're relying on this as your primary weight-loss method just stop taking them now; they are meant to supplement weight loss - not be the prime force behind it.

Amen brotha!

But it is so much easier to pop some pills and get your heart rate racing rather than to actually put forth physical effort and do some....dare I say it....exercise *gasp*. People are just getting so lazy. Sensible diet + exercise = weight loss.

In my case, I'm not trying to lose weight... I only use speed stackers before strength training at the gym to increase my level of intensity. Some days I arrive at the gym tired and need a pick me up. Let's face it, getting the proper amount of sleep EVERY night is not a reality.

The thing that ticks me off is, I read a couple of articles on studies for Xenadrine EFX that said lean muscle mass increased while the patients lost weight. Which sounds like total BS, given the pills can't even supply me with a small energy boost at the gym.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

In my case, I'm not trying to lose weight... I only use speed stackers before strength training at the gym to increase my level of intensity. Some days I arrive at the gym tired and need a pick me up. Let's face it, getting the proper amount of sleep EVERY night is not a reality.

The thing that ticks me off is, I read a couple of articles on studies for Xenadrine EFX that said lean muscle mass increased while the patients lost weight. Which sounds like total BS, given the pills can't even supply me with a small energy boost at the gym.

ECA and similar stimulants like many things should be cycled if you are going to be on them say longer than two months. You bodies own chemistry adjusts for the intake and you get no stimulant effect.

Now the studies with the lean muscle mass increases are flawed to the extent that *any training* will increase lean muscle mass.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

In my case, I'm not trying to lose weight... I only use speed stackers before strength training at the gym to increase my level of intensity. Some days I arrive at the gym tired and need a pick me up. Let's face it, getting the proper amount of sleep EVERY night is not a reality.

The thing that ticks me off is, I read a couple of articles on studies for Xenadrine EFX that said lean muscle mass increased while the patients lost weight. Which sounds like total BS, given the pills can't even supply me with a small energy boost at the gym.

ECA and similar stimulants like many things should be cycled if you are going to be on them say longer than two months. You bodies own chemistry adjusts for the intake and you get no stimulant effect.

Now the studies with the lean muscle mass increases are flawed to the extent that *any training* will increase lean muscle mass.

How must they be cycled?

 

[alkemyst]

For me after about 4-6 weeks I would notice no effect and take a week off.

That next on week I could definitely feel the 'kick'

I try to take a week off of any supplement I am taking each month for a week if they are daily pills/capsules/powders.

Only ones I don't are vitamins.

 

[whaleskinrug]

Current opionion is that ECA does not need to be cycled (at least it won't impact its effectiveness in terms of weight loss). However, if you take it long term you will likely stop getting the jittery/energizing effects. Some people don't get them too much anyway. It would still help you preserve lean muscle mass, but honestly if you are looking to maximize your workout you might try sleeping more. Lack of sleep will certainly affect your ability to put on muscle.

 

[AMDgetGoin]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
I've been taking Xenadrine EFX (ephedra free) for the past 2 weeks, and I barely feel it at all... It got great reviews from alot of studies, but I don't see what all the hype is about... It gives me a slight energy boost, but nothing like the old Xenadrine with the E/C/A stack... To make things worse, all companies that made pills with Ephedra are now making ephedra free pills from now on so they're not liable, wtf? Ephedra was the only known beta 3 blocker and now it's been taken off the market b/c of idiotic users who OD'd on it...

Back to the subject, if you use/d a fat burner, which ones have you used and what were your results?

best fat burner is get off ur lazy as s and take a jog and get that twinkie outta ur pie hole gumby

 

[whaleskinrug]

Originally posted by: AMDgetGoin

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
I've been taking Xenadrine EFX (ephedra free) for the past 2 weeks, and I barely feel it at all... It got great reviews from alot of studies, but I don't see what all the hype is about... It gives me a slight energy boost, but nothing like the old Xenadrine with the E/C/A stack... To make things worse, all companies that made pills with Ephedra are now making ephedra free pills from now on so they're not liable, wtf? Ephedra was the only known beta 3 blocker and now it's been taken off the market b/c of idiotic users who OD'd on it...

Back to the subject, if you use/d a fat burner, which ones have you used and what were your results?

best fat burner is get off ur lazy as s and take a jog and get that twinkie outta ur pie hole gumby

:heart: :heart: :heart:

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: whaleskinrug
Current opionion is that ECA does not need to be cycled (at least it won't impact its effectiveness in terms of weight loss). However, if you take it long term you will likely stop getting the jittery/energizing effects. Some people don't get them too much anyway. It would still help you preserve lean muscle mass, but honestly if you are looking to maximize your workout you might try sleeping more. Lack of sleep will certainly affect your ability to put on muscle.

I will say in my experience I also noticed a weight loss slow down too.

 

[tontod]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Wingznut
You go from undereating and popping ECA's to "50-60 beers a week", and you criticize people on the Atkins plan???

nice way to attack the side issues....any spelling mistakes I have made?

Where am I critizing them...I am simply explaining it is not a new diet and not as safe as many believe.

It's design is perfect for the short-term, just like the ECA stack....however going on Atkin's too long will KILL you....with ECA you develop tolerance.

Many people cheat on the Atkins....one cheat and you now go out of Ketosis....

When I wrestled we used to take litmus paper and check it in the morning...you can drop weight fast on it.

Also my exercise regimine has been a 20 year deal. So my beer phase was 3 months ago, my undereating was 7 years ago.

My explaination is I am not a casual or newcomer to these things and also I have studied it in-depth at college level. I learned why things worked and used myself as the guinea pig a lot of times. I got into Pro-hormones and those definitely worked well at a price of nearly $500 though. Steroids I know worked, many people I worked out with would do them regularly. Easiest source is veternarians here, I live in Polo and race horse country....in some barns you can see bottles of Winstrol-V out in the open.

I will also say most there are many people out there that read a book or two and now think they know it all....or they get into a gym for 4 months and now think they know the best workouts.

Believe what you will....I am merely reporting my results that I have witnessed personally.

Going on Atkins long term will KILL you? WTH did you come up with that nonsense from? Do you have any idea of how the diet works or read any of the books? Many people (thousands) have been on the diet for many years with no adverse effects and have kept their weights off. Please do some homework before criticizing.

Edit: I have been on Atkins since February. I had a checkup last month and all the health indicators (cholesterol, pressure, triglycerides) improved, in addition to dropping weight. And, you can cheat on the atkins sometimes - after you've been on it a while and lost most of the weight you want to lose. I have cheated more than a few times and I have yet to gain any significant amount of weight. So I know it is safe.

 

[BigJ]

HydroxyCut > Xenadrine > Stacker

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: tontod


Going on Atkins long term will KILL you? WTH did you come up with that nonsense from? Do you have any idea of how the diet works or read any of the books? Many people (thousands) have been on the diet for many years with no adverse effects and have kept their weights off. Please do some homework before criticizing.

Edit: I have been on Atkins since February. I had a checkup last month and all the health indicators (cholesterol, pressure, triglycerides) improved, in addition to dropping weight. And, you can cheat on the atkins sometimes - after you've been on it a while and lost most of the weight you want to lose. I have cheated more than a few times and I have yet to gain any significant amount of weight. So I know it is safe.

I am a Biology major, 7 years of education also 16 years plus training......

If you do the Atkins the right way and keep yourself in Ketosis you will die eventually, fortunately most people cheat enough to lose weight and keep themselves out of Ketosis.

He may have changed his 'plan' recently (well posthumously someone may have)...also doing something for only a year is hardly a complete test across the board.

You can do you own research about the Atkins diet and see it's not new. The thing is today people can usually be saved through medicine and a saved patient does not make headlines.

Quoted and can be verified (this :

The Atkins diet encourages you to drastically reduce carbohydrates, while eating all of the high protein foods you want: eggs, cheese, hamburger (without the bun), steak, and fats to name a few. This is also known as a high protein, low carbohydrate diet. The Atkins diet definitely works and is extremely effective for temporary weight loss, but there are several health related problems that can happen as a result of a low carbohydrate diet.

If someone were to be consistent with the Atkins diet, they may run into the following problems: bad breath, gout (painful inflammation of the joints), high cholesterol (LDL = bad), kidney damage, weakness, bad (acne) or dry skin, thinning hair, increased risk of having a heart attack, yellowish instead of white eye balls, set back or sunken eye balls, muscle loss, frequent urination, vitamin and mineral loss, health related problems due to improper nutrition balance, and attitude or mood changes due to bad nutrition.

Bad breath would be the end result for anyone who eats only fat, oils, and protein. This is what dog food is made of. Items such as eggs and cheese have some of the highest cholesterol content of any food. This is an excellent way to have a heart attack.

Nutritionally, the Atkins diet is terrible. Kidney damage can occur as a result of depleted carbohydrate levels. There are several additional health related problems that this type of diet can cause such as headaches and dizzy spells; both due to a bad nutrition balance. The Atkins diet can kill you! It's an "unhealthy" way to lose weight.

For intense or endurance training, the Atkins diet is not ideal. Because 1) you're depleting your body's primary source of energy, and 2) everything else will literally shut down over the long haul as a direct result of depleted carb levels. Your energy and strength levels while training will suffer!

It is unrealistic to assume that anyone could stay on the Atkins diet for any significant amount of time, given the drawbacks/dangers of this diet. It wouldn't take long for someone to realize that they literally couldn't live without the consumption of carbohydrates.



Now the Atkins system recommends supplements and these are important. However again most people are not following the Atkins Diet to the T....some people gain a lot of weight by doing it wrong.

It appears alot of the heart problems and associated things are being taken care of by the supplements he recommends....the diet has evolved some what.

Now not everyone is going to have all those problems above combined, and some key problems everyone will have....for some they cannot stay on it due to nausea, bowel distress, sexual dysfunction, lethargy, etc. It may work great for some people here, however usually those it doesn't work for do not post (since it'd point out the fact they are still fat and someone has been attacked already here that way).

ATOT is hardly a good sample size, and many will say they are part of something to get on the bandwagon.

 

[tontod]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: tontod


Going on Atkins long term will KILL you? WTH did you come up with that nonsense from? Do you have any idea of how the diet works or read any of the books? Many people (thousands) have been on the diet for many years with no adverse effects and have kept their weights off. Please do some homework before criticizing.

Edit: I have been on Atkins since February. I had a checkup last month and all the health indicators (cholesterol, pressure, triglycerides) improved, in addition to dropping weight. And, you can cheat on the atkins sometimes - after you've been on it a while and lost most of the weight you want to lose. I have cheated more than a few times and I have yet to gain any significant amount of weight. So I know it is safe.

I am a Biology major, 7 years of education also 16 years plus training......

If you do the Atkins the right way and keep yourself in Ketosis you will die eventually, fortunately most people cheat enough to lose weight and keep themselves out of Ketosis.

He may have changed his 'plan' recently (well posthumously someone may have)...also doing something for only a year is hardly a complete test across the board.

You can do you own research about the Atkins diet and see it's not new. The thing is today people can usually be saved through medicine and a saved patient does not make headlines.

Quoted and can be verified (this :

The Atkins diet encourages you to drastically reduce carbohydrates, while eating all of the high protein foods you want: eggs, cheese, hamburger (without the bun), steak, and fats to name a few. This is also known as a high protein, low carbohydrate diet. The Atkins diet definitely works and is extremely effective for temporary weight loss, but there are several health related problems that can happen as a result of a low carbohydrate diet.

If someone were to be consistent with the Atkins diet, they may run into the following problems: bad breath, gout (painful inflammation of the joints), high cholesterol (LDL = bad), kidney damage, weakness, bad (acne) or dry skin, thinning hair, increased risk of having a heart attack, yellowish instead of white eye balls, set back or sunken eye balls, muscle loss, frequent urination, vitamin and mineral loss, health related problems due to improper nutrition balance, and attitude or mood changes due to bad nutrition.

Bad breath would be the end result for anyone who eats only fat, oils, and protein. This is what dog food is made of. Items such as eggs and cheese have some of the highest cholesterol content of any food. This is an excellent way to have a heart attack.

Nutritionally, the Atkins diet is terrible. Kidney damage can occur as a result of depleted carbohydrate levels. There are several additional health related problems that this type of diet can cause such as headaches and dizzy spells; both due to a bad nutrition balance. The Atkins diet can kill you! It's an "unhealthy" way to lose weight.

For intense or endurance training, the Atkins diet is not ideal. Because 1) you're depleting your body's primary source of energy, and 2) everything else will literally shut down over the long haul as a direct result of depleted carb levels. Your energy and strength levels while training will suffer!

It is unrealistic to assume that anyone could stay on the Atkins diet for any significant amount of time, given the drawbacks/dangers of this diet. It wouldn't take long for someone to realize that they literally couldn't live without the consumption of carbohydrates.



Now the Atkins system recommends supplements and these are important. However again most people are not following the Atkins Diet to the T....some people gain a lot of weight by doing it wrong.

It appears alot of the heart problems and associated things are being taken care of by the supplements he recommends....the diet has evolved some what.

Now not everyone is going to have all those problems above combined, and some key problems everyone will have....for some they cannot stay on it due to nausea, bowel distress, sexual dysfunction, lethargy, etc. It may work great for some people here, however usually those it doesn't work for do not post (since it'd point out the fact they are still fat and someone has been attacked already here that way).

ATOT is hardly a good sample size, and many will say they are part of something to get on the bandwagon.

None of those ill effects you mentioned have ever been proven, they are just theories. Countless studies have shown no ill effects from the Atkins diet. While it is true that people who dont follow it properly wont get the results... well, its their problem. I've read a lot about it and follow it fairly closely. I have yet to see any problems with it.

 

[alkemyst]

I have witnessed the bad breath deal, people complaining for bowel problems, and lethargy.

You don't really have to prove or disprove the atkins diet...just research Ketosis.

However, like I said most people cheat enough to keep them out of Ketosis enough of the time to prevent it being a problem.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
I have witnessed the bad breath deal, people complaining for bowel problems, and lethargy.

You don't really have to prove or disprove the atkins diet...just research Ketosis.

However, like I said most people cheat enough to keep them out of Ketosis enough of the time to prevent it being a problem.

So, how long would you say that one would have to remain in ketosis (on a consistant basis) before they keeled over?

And where did you get that nonsense quote from? (Thinning hair??? You've got to be kidding me... I'm surprised that impotence isn't listed in there.)

 

[KokomoGST]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: alkemyst
the aspirin is a waste really unless you get headaches from it.

I used ripped fuel and then metabolift by twin labs.

That and a diet/training schedule had me down about 40lbs in a month and almost 90lbs total in 3 months. (250ish to 150ish).

Too much dieting in my case (lost about 20-25lbs of muscle)...

Pricewatch for Supplements

Twinlabs have discontinued Ripped Fuel with Ephedra, unfortunately...

I think the best thing to do is probably just buy ephedra on its own, until it's completely banned in the country (if that ever happens). Combine it with one of the non ephedra pills and it should give me the lift that I need...

Right into the wonderful world of high blood pressure and dangerously elevated heart rate... there's not easy way around it.

Do what everyone else is saying... get off your ass and put it on a treadmill. Cardio & aerobic training along with some resistance training along with lifestyle change is the only way to do it right. Whether you choose Atkins along with exercise or a more traditional nutrition plan (even though I could care less for Atkins possible long term effects) it boils down to proper training and nutrition not supplements.

We've had enough friggin ephedra threads already... pretty much every person that I know that has already been on a regular training regimen that added and adjusted their training while adding ephedra immediately went off it after a short trial. No benefits... only side effects. Totally not worth it if you're willing to wait for results to come.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: alkemyst
I have witnessed the bad breath deal, people complaining for bowel problems, and lethargy.

You don't really have to prove or disprove the atkins diet...just research Ketosis.

However, like I said most people cheat enough to keep them out of Ketosis enough of the time to prevent it being a problem.

So, how long would you say that one would have to remain in ketosis (on a consistant basis) before they keeled over?

And where did you get that nonsense quote from? (Thinning hair??? You've got to be kidding me... I'm surprised that impotence isn't listed in there.)

hmmm sexual dysfunction includes impotence.

You can't be this stupid....however I will go there and repeat....not all people get all the side-effects possible. Being on the diet for even a year is not long term. Most people cheat enough that they are hardly in Ketosis. Just because you don't have bad effects does not mean they don't happen.

You don't hear problems with TYLENOL either, however there is a HUGE group of doctors, pharmacists, and patients (unfortunately that HUGE group is a small minority also) that want it off the shelves. For some people permanent and irreversable liver damage is a result from even ONE DOSAGE.

Perhaps it'd be easier for you to explain the latter statement that's non-Atkin's and go from there.

 

[StageLeft]

I have witnessed the bad breath deal, people complaining for bowel problems, and lethargy.

You don't really have to prove or disprove the atkins diet...just research Ketosis.

However, like I said most people cheat enough to keep them out of Ketosis enough of the time to prevent it being a problem.

Man you don't have to be in ketosis for that My breath smells pretty raunchy from protein intake (I get a lot of carbs, so I'm a far cry from ketosis), and lately due to my 200+ grams protein/day my bowels are even worse than normal. I'm still #2 regular amount (3-4 times a day, rarely as little as 2), but talk about gas! My chair is a scratch and sniff

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: KokomoGST

Right into the wonderful world of high blood pressure and dangerously elevated heart rate... there's not easy way around it.

Do what everyone else is saying... get off your ass and put it on a treadmill. Cardio & aerobic training along with some resistance training along with lifestyle change is the only way to do it right. Whether you choose Atkins along with exercise or a more traditional nutrition plan (even though I could care less for Atkins possible long term effects) it boils down to proper training and nutrition not supplements.

We've had enough friggin ephedra threads already... pretty much every person that I know that has already been on a regular training regimen that added and adjusted their training while adding ephedra immediately went off it after a short trial. No benefits... only side effects. Totally not worth it if you're willing to wait for results to come.

Ok you obviously didn't read anything here and are just blindly spouting off.

1) my resting pulse goes up about about 10 bpm while in the first week of ECA, dropping down to about half that or so the following weeks and further dropping the more I train....my normal resting pulse while not in shape is about 68-70 at most and while in shape low to mid 60's and if I am running regularly drops to about 50-55. Adding 10-20bpm still gives me a decent pulse.. My blood pressure is not significantly affected.....Now you take Joe FatA$$ with a history of heart problems and with a resting pulse of 90bpm then you may have problems. However, it tells you on the bottle to not put yourself into this situation.

2) I did a workout with weights that would more than likely kill many here....2 hours of training + 1 hour of running daily in my fatloss stages....I lost about 1-2 pounds per day the first month alone and finished up at a total of 90lbs of weight loss in about 90 days.

3) Now first thing is, how do we know anything about 'every person that you know' and how many people that was, and if they took the proper dosages. I don't buy into the ECA being a lean muscle mass builder, except via the indirect method by it reducing total body fat as well as adding in training you should see an increase. However the stimulant effects are undeniable for serious trainers....for these guy/girls they are looking for a boost.....I doubt your friends are serious trainers, I see very few people in the gym that even concentrate on a single set yet alone a solid workout.

As a matter of fact I can guarantee you go in to any gym and take pictures for a week of everyone that comes in and take pictures again in 3 months, 6 months, a year, 2 years whatever....only about 5-10% perhaps 20% at most of them will have made any progess at all.