• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Best fat burner/energy booster? i.e.Stacker, Xenadrine...

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
ECA is intended to *preserve* lean mass as one loses weight, and it seems that for many people it helps accomplish that. Of course, losing weight slowly and working the muscles also aids the muscle/fat loss ratio. It may also increase energy allowing for a more intense workout. But it seems most users of these products don't really exercise and aren't willing to make needed dietary changes much and are hoping for some magic fat loss supplement. Or you get kids who are trying to get high eating 10x dosage and then croaking.
 
Originally posted by: alkemyst
Originally posted by: Wingznut
Originally posted by: alkemyst
I have witnessed the bad breath deal, people complaining for bowel problems, and lethargy.

You don't really have to prove or disprove the atkins diet...just research Ketosis.

However, like I said most people cheat enough to keep them out of Ketosis enough of the time to prevent it being a problem.
So, how long would you say that one would have to remain in ketosis (on a consistant basis) before they keeled over?

And where did you get that nonsense quote from? (Thinning hair??? You've got to be kidding me... I'm surprised that impotence isn't listed in there.)

hmmm sexual dysfunction includes impotence.

You can't be this stupid....however I will go there and repeat....not all people get all the side-effects possible. Being on the diet for even a year is not long term. Most people cheat enough that they are hardly in Ketosis. Just because you don't have bad effects does not mean they don't happen.

You don't hear problems with TYLENOL either, however there is a HUGE group of doctors, pharmacists, and patients (unfortunately that HUGE group is a small minority also) that want it off the shelves. For some people permanent and irreversable liver damage is a result from even ONE DOSAGE.

Perhaps it'd be easier for you to explain the latter statement that's non-Atkin's and go from there.
You've said before that low carb plans have killed people. I certainly don't want to die, so I was just asking at what point should I be truly concerned.

If I remain in ketosis, at what point will I die? A month, a year, 12 years... When?

 
Originally posted by: Wingznut

If I remain in ketosis, at what point will I die? A month, a year, 12 years... When?

It's variable. It depends on how much weight, what supplements you are taking, your general health. If you have to be on the diet for more than say 6 months you are doing something wrong.

Ketosis basically causes your body not to process food more or less.

Fortunately now you usually get really sick, see a doctor and he saves you...at the turn of the century there was nothing they could do.

Dr Atkins changed the diet slightly by recommending supplements and some other key changes...however, the only innovation he did was make it a household name.

 
I guess you lost me, alkemyst...

Wouldn't the length of the diet depend on how overweight someone is? How can you say that "6 months" is the breaking point?

And why haven't we heard of anyone dieing from doing the Atkins plan? Or do you have some sort of evidence otherwise?

I just think that your claim of low carb diets killing people is pretty outrageous, and not really sure what your point is in posting it.
 
Originally posted by: Wingznut
I guess you lost me, alkemyst...

Wouldn't the length of the diet depend on how overweight someone is? How can you say that "6 months" is the breaking point?

And why haven't we heard of anyone dieing from doing the Atkins plan? Or do you have some sort of evidence otherwise?

I just think that your claim of low carb diets killing people is pretty outrageous, and not really sure what your point is in posting it.

Yeah, I agree. Just because he's studied medicine, he thinks he's an authority on this stuff. I doubt he's read any of Dr. Atkins' books where lots of people have been on Atkins for YEARS, and have successfully kept their weight off, and have had NO ill health effects as a result of the diet. It is not just a diet, but can be a lifestyle change.

 
Originally posted by: Wingznut
I guess you lost me, alkemyst...

Wouldn't the length of the diet depend on how overweight someone is? How can you say that "6 months" is the breaking point?

And why haven't we heard of anyone dieing from doing the Atkins plan? Or do you have some sort of evidence otherwise?

I just think that your claim of low carb diets killing people is pretty outrageous, and not really sure what your point is in posting it.

I was working as I typed the above line....it should have read if you have to be on the diet more than 6 months and are not excessively obese then something is wrong.

I am considering 40-50lbs and under.

I also did not say it was the low carb part killing people, that's the trick though, all most any carb intake can throw you out of Ketosis. Fortunately people are not as strict as they think they are.

Also like I said, Atkins diet is a revamp of an existing diet that did kill a lot of people everytime it came in to fad....he did not invent anything. It is fortunate enough that today when these same types of people get into trouble there is a medical way to save them.

You can argue this all you want and I am not sure what you want me to say....just go into a library and pull a couple books out on Ketosis. It's that simple. If you were to be able to keep yourself in Ketosis all of the time, you will loose the most weight....plain and simple....however that is also where you have problems.
 
Originally posted by: tontod
Yeah, I agree. Just because he's studied medicine, he thinks he's an authority on this stuff. I doubt he's read any of Dr. Atkins' books where lots of people have been on Atkins for YEARS, and have successfully kept their weight off, and have had NO ill health effects as a result of the diet. It is not just a diet, but can be a lifestyle change.

No I have read about those people, however, don't you think being in an Atkins book is a little biased? Also I am not sure where they draw the line at NO ill health effects....

Again like above, read about Ketosis. This is what Dr. Atkins is REALLY selling, unfortuately and fortunately both, people can't be strict enough to keep themselves in it very long. It's the minority that will have problems and of those that do have problems in today's time medicine can save them....50 years ago probably not.

I also love how every book on diets is proclaimed to be a lifestyle change 🙂 That's just a by-product. You eat healthy you stay healthy = new lifestyle You eat unhealthy you stay unhealthy = old lifestyle.

You want a good and easy diet that if combined with a short 45 min total body workout will get you in shape where others will notice it?

First figure out what weight you would be if you weren't overweight (this is is the hardest part because everyone I have seen underestimates the weight they are carrying).

Now say that's 135lbs of lean muscle mass (everyone has lean muscle mass, some think that only if you work out).

I wholeheartedly recommend limited carbohydrates to non-high GI one (gylcemic index) except immediately after a workout.

Now on the 45 min exercise plan, major protein is not going to be an issue so you don't really need to be concerned with shakes and supplements....most people get too much protein as it is.

However at 135lbs of lean muscle you want at least that in grams of protein per day...if you get 120g only that's ok.

Now at the same time is the hard part, you want to eat meat/protein in portions that are less than 40g of protein at a time....for some it's 30g, for others 50g+....the thing is your body will convert the excess proteins to fats/storage....not using it as protein. With the average person 3 meals a day are still possible so a minimum impact on an average person's lifestyle.

Now you got your 135g of protein, you need to find a good and accurate calorie intake guide for 135lb (or whatever your lean muscle mass is) and then I would recommend figuring your fat intake next....you need some I shoot for 10-15% of my total calories and then the remainder is carbs (again non-high GI....white bread is bad....I stick to pitas and veggies for my carbs, sometimes white rice...pumpernickel, rye, and whole wheat (real) are decent, oatmeal and other whole grains are good too, cereal is not (most of the time)).

With fats you want the non-highly saturated fats.

Now when I start my diets I go below my needed/required calories a little bit....works good for my body though, for some you will get cravings...you want to try to avoid cravings because they make you cheat.

Any adjustment of 3600 calories whether by eating less or exercising more should equal at least 1lb of weight coming off. There is more to it too and why I encourage muscle mass being developed at the same time.

With more muscle you use more calories, with an in shape body you also burn calories more efficiently, you also burn more during the day as your body needs to repair itself (while you sleep)....etc

All these things cause an extra calorie to be burned here, another there, etc.

I have not failed to lose 30-40lbs in three-four months on this kind of routine, even without ECA type supplements. There is no impact on my life, I don't have to avoid other people's food they prepare and be a general pain in the rear, etc.

The funny thing to me is you always hear people on diets and eventually you don't hear about them anymore and the person is back to normal....or they start looking good and then start talking of how they can now eat that 1/2 tub of ice cream with no worries 😉

Same way in the gym....I have been out of it for about 6 months now, however I guarantee I will go back and see the same daily people there and they will all look the same as they did before.
 
Link 1 to a study that low carbs will hurt your immune system.
"These results however do suggest if carbs are dropped too low for a prolonged time frame (in this case 7 weeks) as a lot of body builders and diet enthusiasts do, some aspects of immune function do suffer. This may lead to an increased susceptibility to illness or infection."

The Atkins is crap, unless you really vamp it up with protein supplements and low saturated meats like fish.

Furthermore, you will never hear of a body builder on the Atkins diet. Why? Because your body needs carbs to build muscle stores of energy (glycogen). Overall it's probably better just to increase your lean muscle mass to fat ratio which will burn more calories than going on Atkin's. If people who are in shape don't use it, why would you?
 
Originally posted by: alkemyst
Same way in the gym....I have been out of it for about 6 months now, however I guarantee I will go back and see the same daily people there and they will all look the same as they did before.

I don't agree with this statement... there are many daily peers of mine who have increased their lifts over the course of a year... Hell one kid could only bench 135 and he's now doing 350, he used to be as skinny as a shrimp and now he's 220. Some do stay the same, but that's because they don't eat or know how to train right, or like me, they became injured which has stunted their growth.
 
wow! what a dangerous thread..

are these, like real people, or all you just made up internet personas ?
:moon:
 
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: alkemyst
Same way in the gym....I have been out of it for about 6 months now, however I guarantee I will go back and see the same daily people there and they will all look the same as they did before.

I don't agree with this statement... there are many daily peers of mine who have increased their lifts over the course of a year... Hell one kid could only bench 135 and he's now doing 350, he used to be as skinny as a shrimp and now he's 220. Some do stay the same, but that's because they don't eat or know how to train right, or like me, they became injured which has stunted their growth.

huh?!? I have been part of about 10 gyms, most of the people that workout there do not progress. If you are there during the hardcore times like 4am-6am etc, you will see most of them gaining.

It has nothing at all do do with growth stunts or eating....not training right is exactly what my point was....they come in 30min to an hour toss around the same weight they did the last 10 workouts and talk and gawk and women/men.

As a matter of fact, in most gyms, the majority never even show up.
 
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Link 1 to a study that low carbs will hurt your immune system.
"These results however do suggest if carbs are dropped too low for a prolonged time frame (in this case 7 weeks) as a lot of body builders and diet enthusiasts do, some aspects of immune function do suffer. This may lead to an increased susceptibility to illness or infection."

The Atkins is crap, unless you really vamp it up with protein supplements and low saturated meats like fish.

Furthermore, you will never hear of a body builder on the Atkins diet. Why? Because your body needs carbs to build muscle stores of energy (glycogen). Overall it's probably better just to increase your lean muscle mass to fat ratio which will burn more calories than going on Atkin's. If people who are in shape don't use it, why would you?

by Paul Cribb, B.H.Sci HMS
AST Director of Research

You can't use a biased site to make claims something doesn't work when they sell products for the same purpose.
 
Originally posted by: alkemyst
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Link 1 to a study that low carbs will hurt your immune system.
"These results however do suggest if carbs are dropped too low for a prolonged time frame (in this case 7 weeks) as a lot of body builders and diet enthusiasts do, some aspects of immune function do suffer. This may lead to an increased susceptibility to illness or infection."

The Atkins is crap, unless you really vamp it up with protein supplements and low saturated meats like fish.

Furthermore, you will never hear of a body builder on the Atkins diet. Why? Because your body needs carbs to build muscle stores of energy (glycogen). Overall it's probably better just to increase your lean muscle mass to fat ratio which will burn more calories than going on Atkin's. If people who are in shape don't use it, why would you?

by Paul Cribb, B.H.Sci HMS
AST Director of Research

You can't use a biased site to make claims something doesn't work when they sell products for the same purpose.
Of course they sell products, but that doesn't automatically mean they're biased. Their articles are based on factual studies, did you read the reference of where the study came from? Training and natural immunity: effects of diets rich in fat or carbohydrate. Eur.J.Appl. Physiol. 82:98-102,2000. This adds more credibility than anyone's opinion in my book.

They're the most reliable site I've come across, and they don't just try to tell you how you should eat/train/lift without basing their methodology upon scientific research. If you can find a study that refutes this article, be my guest. But it better be backed by some research that's published, or we can't take you seriously.
 
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: alkemyst
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Link 1 to a study that low carbs will hurt your immune system.
"These results however do suggest if carbs are dropped too low for a prolonged time frame (in this case 7 weeks) as a lot of body builders and diet enthusiasts do, some aspects of immune function do suffer. This may lead to an increased susceptibility to illness or infection."

The Atkins is crap, unless you really vamp it up with protein supplements and low saturated meats like fish.

Furthermore, you will never hear of a body builder on the Atkins diet. Why? Because your body needs carbs to build muscle stores of energy (glycogen). Overall it's probably better just to increase your lean muscle mass to fat ratio which will burn more calories than going on Atkin's. If people who are in shape don't use it, why would you?

by Paul Cribb, B.H.Sci HMS
AST Director of Research

You can't use a biased site to make claims something doesn't work when they sell products for the same purpose.
Of course they sell products, but that doesn't automatically mean they're biased. Their articles are based on factual studies, did you read the reference of where the study came from? Training and natural immunity: effects of diets rich in fat or carbohydrate. Eur.J.Appl. Physiol. 82:98-102,2000. This adds more credibility than anyone's opinion in my book.

They're the most reliable site I've come across, and they don't just try to tell you how you should eat/train/lift without basing their methodology upon scientific research. If you can find a study that refutes this article, be my guest. But it better be backed by some research that's published, or we can't take you seriously.

no need for a study, the 10,000+ atkins dieters can show that, many of them workout and many of them are not constantly sick.

Also that study doesn't prove or disprove anything: "This may lead to an increased susceptibility to illness or infection." That is not a conclusion...it's speculation. I take it you are not a scientist nor understand science.

You also have no idea to what food sources they were using, that could be the problem....a protein, carb, or fat could all be found in a candy bar.

I have no idea how you concluded: "The Atkins is crap, unless you really vamp it up with protein supplements and low saturated meats like fish." either....

anyways
rolleye.gif

 
Ketosis is the best fat burner 😉
I am on Atkins two weeks now, bike 16 miles a day as my commute, and go to the gym twice a week, AND lost 10 lbs. I am not sick, and energy level is good, and my sleeping pattern is much better too.
I used to constantly stay up till 2 or 3. Now I go to bed at 12:30.
 
As far as the immunity aspect, that is concerning, but I would like to see a more controlled study that includes Atkins dieters taking multivitamins, and other supplements like fish oil, etc.
Clearly if you remove all fruits and don't supplement with vitamin C, your immune system will suffer.
But you gotta pick your poison, just like with anything. There is a lot of obesity amd high blood sugar associated morbidity, and there is a good deal of lower immune response morbidity.
Also, I am not sure why you would need protein supplements for Atkins since you are eating meat all day, and plenty of veggies, fish, eggs, etc.

On the side note, I was watching a program where they showed Chukchas who eat almost exclusively reindeer and do a lot of physical activity herding those raindeer and moving around to new feeding grounds in -40 degree cold, and they stay pretty beefy and healthy.
So that got me thinking, if they eat nothing but protein and fat all year, how do they stay pretty bulky and not go completely skinny.
 
Back
Top