Best camcorder for a few hundred?

[Dulanic]

Have a kids on the way and am now in the market for a camcorder. I an just starting to look around as it's been 15 years since I sold the old analog ones lol. The Sony CX130 looks pretty decent for the price. Anything some others in that price range offer over it?

Or the canon VIXIA HF R200 looks pretty good for the price?

 

[Kaido]

Do you need zoom?

Do you plan on doing any video editing? (cutting clips together, adding music, etc.)

 

[Dulanic]

Do you need zoom?

Do you plan on doing any video editing? (cutting clips together, adding music, etc.)

I would go with yes on the zoom part. Maybe not at first but as the kid grows up more. I imagine I can convert whichever format also for video editing? I have a powerful PC to convert whatever as long as I can load the Codec.

 

[Dulanic]

I've been looking more and more and it really seems like video quality varies quite a bit even if they are all mostly HD? It is starting to look like it is really worthwhile to spend the extra money and getting something like a Sony HDR-CX560V which seems to have high reviews. There are so many options that is for sure.

 

[JohnnyRebel]

Have a kids on the way and am now in the market for a camcorder. I an just starting to look around as it's been 15 years since I sold the old analog ones lol. The Sony CX130 looks pretty decent for the price. Anything some others in that price range offer over it?

Or the canon VIXIA HF R200 looks pretty good for the price?

I picked up a Sony @ Wal-Mart recently on clearance for around $100. I think the original price was $250ish. 4gig internal memory, expandable via SD card. I recorded a couple of symphony orchestra concerts with it and am very happy with the results. I used the built-in mic for sound and a 16gig SD card. Recorded in HD and the video/sound is 8/8. The auto white balance was a tad off, but I chose one of the provided pre-sets and it was spot on.

All this to say, that any name-brand HD video recorder is going to do pretty well, especially if you've ever suffered thru Camcorders. I was upgrading from a JVC with digital video tape. For family videos, I'd choose the best deal. Like anything, paying for current tech is often a bit of a diminishing return since you pay so much for it, often you're locked in for a longer period of time before you can upgrade.

My $0.02.

JR

 

[Dulanic]

Yeah I may just hit up a local place and look for clearance too... With a kid on the way I guess it is time to start thinking about the money more often with having the top or the newest electronics. I'm not looking for professional quality or anything anyways, just easy to use and easy to download and edit as needed on my PC. I know some of the HD codecs are very CPU intensive but I have a i7 920 CPU /w 8GB RAM so I think it will be more than capable of editing any of those.

 

[radhak]

Last week I posted about my Canon Vixia HF200 - I can't think how it can be bettered - luv it.

When I bought it, it sold at around $850 on Amazon. I paid less than half of that on Craigslist. You could take a look at your local CL - be circumspect, be ready to walk away if you don't like what you see, and don't expect to find gold at first hit, and you can save a ton of money yet end up with gems.

My take on this type of purchase is - I'd rather buy a high-priced unit at lower cost because it is 'used' , than pay full-price for a new unit that might not offer as much quality.

 

[Todd33]

What about the Canon VIXIA HF R20? I nee to upgrade my old Sony tape based camcorder.

 

[Dulanic]

What about the Canon VIXIA HF R20? I nee to upgrade my old Sony tape based camcorder.

I'm curious myself. According to Amazon the HF R20 replaces the HF20 but I haven't been able to compare.

 

[radhak]

I'm curious myself. According to Amazon the HF R20 replaces the HF20 but I haven't been able to compare.

I am not sure that could be the case. The HF20 price range is almost a $1000 more.

CNet had an earlier comparison :

http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-camcorders/canon-vixia-hf20/4540-6500_7-33483229-4.html

But the R20 does have its points, at a very optimal price point. Btw, did you notice that the black is almost $50 less than the red?

 

[Dulanic]

I am not sure that could be the case. The HF20 price range is almost a $1000 more.

CNet had an earlier comparison :

http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-camcorders/canon-vixia-hf20/4540-6500_7-33483229-4.html

But the R20 does have its points, at a very optimal price point. Btw, did you notice that the black is almost $50 less than the red?

I didn't quite believe it either. Canon made these model #s a PITA.... Amazon has the Canon VIXIA HF R200 for $279 then there is a HF R20 for $324.00... Then there is a HF20 which Amazon says the HF M40 replaces... I am so lost lol.

Fortunately, it looks like Canon replaces the models in march? If so, I will wait anyways since my child isn't due until after that.

 

[Kaido]

I've been looking more and more and it really seems like video quality varies quite a bit even if they are all mostly HD? It is starting to look like it is really worthwhile to spend the extra money and getting something like a Sony HDR-CX560V which seems to have high reviews. There are so many options that is for sure.

On HD variation...beef is beef, but a McDonalds dollar-menu burger isn't the same as a filet mignon :biggrin:

If you are looking in Sony HDR territory, I'd just go for the big guns: the Panasonic HDC-TM900K, currently $699 on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-HDC-...dp/B004I43MJU/

 

[Kaido]

Yeah I may just hit up a local place and look for clearance too... With a kid on the way I guess it is time to start thinking about the money more often with having the top or the newest electronics. I'm not looking for professional quality or anything anyways, just easy to use and easy to download and edit as needed on my PC. I know some of the HD codecs are very CPU intensive but I have a i7 920 CPU /w 8GB RAM so I think it will be more than capable of editing any of those.

HD video codecs will wipe the floor with an i7 chip :biggrin: It's pretty bad. Basically it boils down to this: each phase of the video process uses a different codec. So you have 3 codecs:

1. Recording
2. Editing
3. Playback

So your recording format might be AVCHD in an MTS container (typical of say a Canon HD camcorder). An i7 would really struggle to edit this. The reason it is so intensive is that the video is highly encoded to fit a lot of recording time on a small memory stick - so the tradeoff is more time on a cheaper, smaller flash chip vs. easier video editing. Newer video editing software will do basic edits natively on MTS files, but if you want to really get into things, you really need to transcode the Recording Codec into an Editing Codec (MOV, AVI, WMV, ProRes, whatever).

The Editing Codec makes the file size get larger, but now your CPU can handle editing it without choking. Once you are done editing, you export it to a Playback Codec like MP4 or something that will play nice in Quicktime or Windows Media Player or whatever. So there's typically a lot of transcoding involved when doing HD video editing. If you're only doing basic video editing and get the right package, you can skip pretty much everything except the export to the Playback Codec, which you need to play back on your computer, iPad, upload to Youtube, etc.

That's why I asked about the zoom...I am now recommending the new iPod Touch as a basic camcorder for most people (it has no zoom, however). It does 720p and you can edit directly on the device if you want to (the iMovie app is five bucks). It's not the world's best HD camcorder, but it's extremely convenient (super slim - fits in your pants pocket) and is "good enough" for a lot of stuff, and doesn't require an extension post-production workflow (transcoding, learning & purchasing video editing apps - although there are a lot of good free ones - and so on & so forth).

 

[Dulanic]

HD video codecs will wipe the floor with an i7 chip :biggrin: It's pretty bad. Basically it boils down to this: each phase of the video process uses a different codec. So you have 3 codecs:

1. Recording
2. Editing
3. Playback

So your recording format might be AVCHD in an MTS container (typical of say a Canon HD camcorder). An i7 would really struggle to edit this. The reason it is so intensive is that the video is highly encoded to fit a lot of recording time on a small memory stick - so the tradeoff is more time on a cheaper, smaller flash chip vs. easier video editing. Newer video editing software will do basic edits natively on MTS files, but if you want to really get into things, you really need to transcode the Recording Codec into an Editing Codec (MOV, AVI, WMV, ProRes, whatever).

The Editing Codec makes the file size get larger, but now your CPU can handle editing it without choking. Once you are done editing, you export it to a Playback Codec like MP4 or something that will play nice in Quicktime or Windows Media Player or whatever. So there's typically a lot of transcoding involved when doing HD video editing. If you're only doing basic video editing and get the right package, you can skip pretty much everything except the export to the Playback Codec, which you need to play back on your computer, iPad, upload to Youtube, etc.

That's why I asked about the zoom...I am now recommending the new iPod Touch as a basic camcorder for most people (it has no zoom, however). It does 720p and you can edit directly on the device if you want to (the iMovie app is five bucks). It's not the world's best HD camcorder, but it's extremely convenient (super slim - fits in your pants pocket) and is "good enough" for a lot of stuff, and doesn't require an extension post-production workflow (transcoding, learning & purchasing video editing apps - although there are a lot of good free ones - and so on & so forth).

The day I buy a apple device as a camcorder is..... Well never. I have a phone I could record with but that doesn't do what a camcorder does.

I appreciate the advice but not what i'm looking for.

 

[Todd33]

1. I'd never buy an Apple device.
2. Zoom is very important for a camcorder, with real optics, no digital crap.
3. If I wanted crapped portable video I'd use my phone or a flip, which I have.

 

[Kaido]

If I wanted crapped portable video I'd use my phone or a flip, which I have.

Ahem.

 

[Kaido]

The day I buy a apple device as a camcorder is..... Well never. I have a phone I could record with but that doesn't do what a camcorder does.

I appreciate the advice but not what i'm looking for.

Np. That helps narrow it down. So the next question is budget/feature set. As I mentioned above, the Panasonic TM900 is my current favorite camcorder. 35mm wide-angle lens, 3MOS sensor, beautiful footage. I am a fan. If you are leaning more towards the high end of the price spectrum for consumer cameras (~$700), this is the one I'd go with.

On the smaller end of the budget, you really can't go wrong with a Canon. Sony cameras, like you mentioned, are also extremely nice - I've had (and have) both. There were some new ones announced today:

http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/09/canons-vixia-camcorders-go-social-for-the-new-year-get-improve/

My shopping advice would be to browse Youtube and Vimeo for footage samples and just watch a bunch and see what you like. Ultimately what matters is whether or not you're happy with the footage!

 

[Cattykit]

HD video codecs will wipe the floor with an i7 chip :biggrin: It's pretty bad. Basically it boils down to this: each phase of the video process uses a different codec. So you have 3 codecs:

1. Recording
2. Editing
3. Playback

So your recording format might be AVCHD in an MTS container (typical of say a Canon HD camcorder). An i7 would really struggle to edit this. The reason it is so intensive is that the video is highly encoded to fit a lot of recording time on a small memory stick - so the tradeoff is more time on a cheaper, smaller flash chip vs. easier video editing. Newer video editing software will do basic edits natively on MTS files, but if you want to really get into things, you really need to transcode the Recording Codec into an Editing Codec (MOV, AVI, WMV, ProRes, whatever).

The Editing Codec makes the file size get larger, but now your CPU can handle editing it without choking. Once you are done editing, you export it to a Playback Codec like MP4 or something that will play nice in Quicktime or Windows Media Player or whatever. So there's typically a lot of transcoding involved when doing HD video editing. If you're only doing basic video editing and get the right package, you can skip pretty much everything except the export to the Playback Codec, which you need to play back on your computer, iPad, upload to Youtube, etc.

That's why I asked about the zoom...I am now recommending the new iPod Touch as a basic camcorder for most people (it has no zoom, however). It does 720p and you can edit directly on the device if you want to (the iMovie app is five bucks). It's not the world's best HD camcorder, but it's extremely convenient (super slim - fits in your pants pocket) and is "good enough" for a lot of stuff, and doesn't require an extension post-production workflow (transcoding, learning & purchasing video editing apps - although there are a lot of good free ones - and so on & so forth).

You're talking about old days.

If you use nvidia cards with Premiere Pro, AVCHD is pretty much nothing. No transcoding is required for you get 10x GPU boost on the fly. I edit multiple tracks with more than 3-4 effects and it's butter smooth.

Oh and have you checked out Sony HX9v? It's a camcorder killer camera. It is widely popular even among professionals.

 

[Dulanic]

Good to see new features are coming up for the model year. I think it is safe for me to wait a free months then since I have time before my kid will be born I may be back in a few months with some more help.

 

[Kaido]

You're talking about old days.

If you use nvidia cards with Premiere Pro, AVCHD is pretty much nothing. No transcoding is required for you get 10x GPU boost on the fly. I edit multiple tracks with more than 3-4 effects and it's butter smooth.

Oh and have you checked out Sony HX9v? It's a camcorder killer camera. It is widely popular even among professionals.

Well, that's not quite the whole picture. 99% of software doesn't support that feature set, and you should also note that some additional investment is required here:

1. Nvidia CUDA card: $100 (?) to $600
2. Adobe Premiere Pro: $600

Assuming he doesn't have a CUDA/Fermi/whatever-is-required right now. And if his camera budget is $600-$700, that's a pretty hefty chunk to add, for another $600 for software - plus the learning curve for professional-grade software. Most software doesn't have native AVCHD editing like that, although I'm sure it will only grow from here! I am glad to hear that you can do 3 or 4 effects without slowdown, that's a HUGE improvement over traditional AVCHD editing and would really make a difference for speed.

 

[JohnnyRebel]

Ahem.

Neat Video. I just can't figure out how to get the iPhone, Glidetrack slider and the Olloclip lens all in my shirt pocket

JR

 

[JohnnyRebel]

I'd never buy an Apple device.

I know what you mean! "Stability" and "ease of use" really takes the fun out of it.

JR

 

[Kaido]

Neat Video. I just can't figure out how to get the iPhone, Glidetrack slider and the Olloclip lens all in my shirt pocket

Fits in my iPad jacket. u jelly? :awe:

 

[Kaido]

Neat Video. I just can't figure out how to get the iPhone, Glidetrack slider and the Olloclip lens all in my shirt pocket

JR

Also, they have a new P&S/phone-sized slider out:

http://www.mobislyder.com/

Would not mind that one bit! Already invested in the big one tho. Admittedly, I do get a lot of puzzled glances & questions when filming with it

 

[Todd33]

I know what you mean! "Stability" and "ease of use" really takes the fun out of it.

JR

Style over substance and walled proprietary everything.