Best Bang-4-Buck PERFORMANCE - Final O/C'ing results

[apoppin]

My last update: I PROMISE

see my o/c'ing Report's latest post for feb 11






Final Update . . . it's done see latest post . . .

WED UPdate - see my wed post: Well, well, I ordered my P4 system YESTERDAY from Newegg and it arrived today . . . after my nap, I will begin building it and will have an O/C'ing UPdate (hopefully) soon.

Edit (tues): After having my HEART set on an A-64, I went to NewEgg to order . . . the case price went up. the RAM was off-special and the MB I wanted was UNavailable and the SUBS went OVER my budget . . . so I spent the whole morning REcalculating . . .

What changed my mind about the A-64 is the expected $30-40 price drop NEXT week and the P$ has ALREADY dropped . . . so. here's what I ordered:

CPU- P4/2.8CGHz 800M - $183
MB - ABIT IC7 i875P - $119
DDRAM - 2 x 256MB PC3500 MUSHKIN - $122 (I can have dual-channel right away)
CASE - ASPIRE XDREAMER I ATX BGE (seems like a decent 350w - gotta save) -$42

sub TOTAL $467 before s&h (or just under $520 shipped to me in CA)

ANY LAST MINUTE suggeestions? I can STILL change the order
(sure)








It's never the "best" time, but I (finally) got the $$$ for a complete upgrade (my 1.2ghz Tualatin system is going to a neighbor who is tired of her 366Mhz Celeron e-machine).

let's say my absolute MAX budget is $600 for:
1) CPU
2) MB
3) RAM (512mb)
4) PS/Case

A. I am willing to do a mild/moderate overclock but won't bump voltage more than 5% (so I don't need the best RAM).

B. I am going to use my Radeon 8500-128 for a bit longer so don't count that in my budget.

C. I am considering both Intel and AMD. Looking some possible upgrade paths either way.

PS: with your help, I will begin placing orders (Newegg! - mostly) this week for a new build next weekend.
(mahalo)

And trying to get as MUCH (gaming) performance for as little spent as possible.


Good Morning Friday, 1.30 EDIT: Here is what I am "playing with":

Intel p-4
Buffalo Technology 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3700 w/ Micron Module - OEM - $94
Intel Pentium 4/ 2.8C GHz 800MHz FSB, 512K Cache, Hyper Threading - $199.00
SLK3700AMB - Antec 350w/ case - $60
Asus "P4P800 Deluxe" -RETAIL - $127 for a total of $480 minus $20 on Monday with the Intel price drop) . . .


A-64 system
Mobo: Gigabyte GA-K8VT800 - $100
AMD Athlon 64 3000+, 512KB L2 Cache 64-bit Processor - Retail - $227
Buffalo Technology 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3700 w/ Micron Module - OEM - $94
ANTEC Solution Series Case with 350W Power Supply, Model "SLK3700AMB" - $60
(seems 350w IS sufficient for the A64)
Total $481

Critique, please; can I do better?

EDIT: It looks like the SIS 755 is a poor choice - VIA's K8T800 is a better choice; also for $11 more, Mushkin 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3500 Level One - OEM @$105 is a beter choice or even Kingston HyperX Series 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3700 for $112

 

[Dman877]

I think a A64 3000 with Asus K8V and 512 MB of Corsair XMS and an Antec SLK3700 (maybe even the BQE edition) will fit that budget nicely. If you want an upgrade path without having to switch mobo's, you'll have to go Intel though. Both socket A and socket 754 are soon-to-be dead. So maybe a P4 2.8 instead of the A64 then, I don't know much about Intel motherboards sorry.

EDIT: This is assuming Prescot uses socket 478 (or whatever the current P4's have). Also, since you will be using an 8500, you will be mostly limited by the video card so you could go with a lesser proc like a Barton 2500 and save some cash too.

 

[Todd33]

I would say a Ti4200 is a great low end card. Not sure if the 2 Ghz Celerons are worth it, but they run $70. Slap 512MB DDR in there and you have a nice system. I'm sure more people can give you specific brands, but check newegg.com for prices.

Oops, missed the part about the 8500, then spend the budget on the best CPU/MB combo you can.

 

[Shenlon]

You can pick up a 2.4Ghz 800Mhz FSB P4 for 163 + Albatron PX865PE Pro motherboard for 80 bucks + 2 sticks of 256MB PC-3200 RAM for ~40 bucks each, call it a total of 85 + 50 bucks for whatever case you like = a grand total of 378 bucks plus shipping. That leaves you 200 extra bucks to play around with, upgrade processor, motherboard or memory, or pick up a Radeon 9600XT. There's my .02


***EDIT***
All my prices are from newegg.com

 

[apoppin]

Thanks for the quick replies.

No, I don't want a Celeron system . . . it'll likely be a 2.8Ghz P4 (I guess it has the Intel price/perf sweet spot; doesn't support Hyperthreading, though, huh?) or the new A64 3000 . . .

I am guessing (from what I have read here) that there isn't much of an upgrade either way from Intel or AMD without a new MB.


EDIT: i am hoping to get my O/C over 3Ghz; assuming the 2.8Ghz will easily do that. How is the Albatron PX865PE Pro as an O/C'ing friendly MB?

 

[apoppin]

Here is what I am "playing with":

Kingston 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 - $75.00

Intel Pentium 4/ 2.8C GHz 800MHz FSB, 512K Cache, Hyper Threading - $199.00

Antec "True 430" - $66.00

and maybe an Asus (875P - ?) or Abit MB (which one?) ~$180 for a total of around $550 taxed and shipped

Critique, please; can I do better?

 

[Markfw]

Athlon64 3000+ at stock voltage, 512 PC3500 CAS, ASUS K8V (all of which I have) at 2180 mhz for a shade over $500 and pick a case to take you to $600. It will best anything Intel has for gaming up to 3.4 ghz. And thats including my Thermaltake Silentboost K8 HSF. And thats in 32bit. Wait until 64 bit goes mainstream......

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
Athlon64 3000+ at stock voltage, 512 PC3500 CAS, ASUS K8V (all of which I have) at 2180 mhz for a shade over $500 and pick a case to take you to $600. It will best anything Intel has for gaming up to 3.4 ghz. And thats including my Thermaltake Silentboost K8 HSF. And thats in 32bit. Wait until 64 bit goes mainstream......

My problem - except for reviews - is that I have much less experience with AMD than with Intel systems.

I am not worried about 64 bit computing; by the time it goes mainstream, I will be on my next upgrade.

However, I am willing to build an Athlon system . . . even though it appears to costa bit more; and shouldn't the P4 2.8 be able to reach near 3.4Ghz?

 

[Markfw]

I think that if you add it all up, you will find them priced the same or the AMD less. You can use the same memory, and PSU, the CPU is close (might be $20 more, but the motherboard will be $50-$80 less for the Athlon64. So if the 2.8 does go to 3.4, then the Athlon64 can at least equal if not beat it in 32 bit mode in games.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
I think that if you add it all up, you will find them priced the same or the AMD less. You can use the same memory, and PSU, the CPU is close (might be $20 more, but the motherboard will be $50-$80 less for the Athlon64. So if the 2.8 does go to 3.4, then the Athlon64 can at least equal if not beat it in 32 bit mode in games.

OK, let me add up the Intel system:

Kingston 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 - $75.00
Intel Pentium 4/ 2.8C GHz 800MHz FSB, 512K Cache, Hyper Threading - $199.00
Antec "True 430" - $66.00
and maybe an Asus "P4P800 Deluxe" -RETAIL - $127

total $467** before shipping and CA taxes

edit: It appears Intel is dropping the price on their 2.8 processor on Monday to $178!; so **$441 total (a 9800Pro might be in my near future, afterall)

It seems quite a bit less than the A-64 system

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Markfw900
I think that if you add it all up, you will find them priced the same or the AMD less. You can use the same memory, and PSU, the CPU is close (might be $20 more, but the motherboard will be $50-$80 less for the Athlon64. So if the 2.8 does go to 3.4, then the Athlon64 can at least equal if not beat it in 32 bit mode in games.

OK, let me add up the Intel system:

Kingston 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 - $75.00
Intel Pentium 4/ 2.8C GHz 800MHz FSB, 512K Cache, Hyper Threading - $199.00
Antec "True 430" - $66.00
and maybe an Asus "P4P800 Deluxe" -RETAIL - $127

total $467 before shipping and CA taxes

It seems quite a bit less than the A-64 system

Just a reminder... if you do get a Pentium4 2.8C, you will be kicking yourself if you don't get two memory modules so the motherboard can actually feed that hungry CPU some data. You also don't have a case there, which Markfw900 has included in his $600 estimate.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: mechBgon

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Markfw900
I think that if you add it all up, you will find them priced the same or the AMD less. You can use the same memory, and PSU, the CPU is close (might be $20 more, but the motherboard will be $50-$80 less for the Athlon64. So if the 2.8 does go to 3.4, then the Athlon64 can at least equal if not beat it in 32 bit mode in games.

OK, let me add up the Intel system:

Kingston 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 - $75.00
Intel Pentium 4/ 2.8C GHz 800MHz FSB, 512K Cache, Hyper Threading - $199.00
edited here SLK3700AMB - Antec 350w AND case) - $60
and maybe an Asus "P4P800 Deluxe" -RETAIL - $127

total $461 before shipping and CA taxes

It seems quite a bit less than the A-64 system

Just a reminder... if you do get a Pentium4 2.8C, you will be kicking yourself if you don't get two memory modules so the motherboard can actually feed that hungry CPU some data. You also don't have a case there, which Markfw900 has included in his $600 estimate.

I am planning to buy another 512 stick when I can afford it.

You're right - I only included a PS . . . HOWEVER, I can drop my power requirements (430 is probably overkill for a simple P4 gaming system) to 350w and include a case - No?

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: apoppin

. . . even though it appears to costa bit more; and shouldn't the P4 2.8 be able to reach near 3.4Ghz?

I got my 2.6 up to 3.4 and it ran stable. However, the soundcard started making a screaching noise (like mic feedback) while playing UT2003, so I toned it back to stock. I haven't messed with it since then, but I would think that an OC of 3.2 - 3.4 is pretty realistic without having to do too much tweaking starting from 2.8.

 

[Markfw]

And to be perfectly fair that memory is the minimum for 200 fsb/HTT(quad for the P4). At that speed that A64 wins. on equal OC's the a64 wins. The only way the Intel wins is if you can OC more on that cheap PC3200 memory (as compared to something like Mushkin PC3500 level II). I don't want to play that game, as I am not really sure how each would do on the same memory as the speeds go up, but something to think about.....

Edit: CPU 3000+ retail (HSF included, very quiet) free shipping, motherboard ASUS K8V top of the line, free shipping, same memory free shipping $441.99 on newegg right now. The case being the same price either way..... I say AMD is better bang for the buck, you decide...

 

[lobadobadingdong]

This is what I would get if someone gave me $600 to build a barebone setup.

"loaded" ASUS K8V Deluxe
A64 3000+
buffalo pc3700
Antec case w/350W PS
520.99 for the stuff, shipped to me would be 535.99, but I don't have to pay CA taxes either.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
And to be perfectly fair that memory is the minimum for 200 fsb/HTT(quad for the P4). At that speed that A64 wins. on equal OC's the a64 wins. The only way the Intel wins is if you can OC more on that cheap PC3200 memory (as compared to something like Mushkin PC3500 level II). I don't want to play that game, as I am not really sure how each would do on the same memory as the speeds go up, but something to think about.....

Well, to be (really) fair, I am looking for a "value" Performance system.



I know you can't have it all on a budget, but I am trying. I guess you can push the O/C on PC-3200 with a lower divider and lower timings without killing performance in aiming for 3.4Ghz (I am trying to remember what I read from my many hours spent in O/C'ing forum[?]) . . .

edit I just read your latest edit:
Edit: CPU 3000+ retail (HSF included, very quiet) free shipping, motherboard ASUS K8V top of the line, free shipping, same memory free shipping $441.99 on newegg right now. The case being the same price either way..... I say AMD is better bang for the buck, you decide...

Thank-you very much for helping me decide . . .

 

[Markfw]

Thank-you very much for helping me decide . . .

So whats the verdict ????

 

[apoppin]

What did I decide??? . .. still processing)

OK, lets look at the A-64 system . . .

What's this "buffalo" RAM - PC3700; 512MB for $94.00? Is it needed for the A-64 O/C? Wouldn't the Kingston PC3200 be sufficient?

And - correct me please if necessary - only ONE stick is needed to feed the Athlon?(unlike the P4)

anyway . . .

Asus (KV8 Deluxe) K8T800 Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket 754 CPU -$140
AMD Athlon 64 3000+, 512KB L2 Cache 64-bit Processor - Retail - $227
Kingston RAM - PC3200 - $75.00 (or$20 more for the PC $3700)
ANTEC Solution Series Case with 350W Power Supply, Model "SLK3700AMB" - $60
(is 350w sufficient for the A64?)
Total $502 (or 521 with the better memory) vs. $441 for the Intel System.
(am I missing something? . . . besides my sanity?)

 

[Markfw]

OK, I really don't know how the other ram will do OCing (sorry to be honest), but YES, only one stick does FINE, NO PENALTY.

BUT I would spend the $20 for better memory no matter which system you picked...... I really think either system would need the same respectively fast memory for a better OC. The reason I think the A64 would work better, it that at stock, it equals and usually bests a 3.2c IN GAMES (notice how I qualify that, rendering is a little better on the P4.) So for a mild OC, I think the A64 wins with the same memory.

Edit, WAIT a MINUTE, where do you get $441 for the Intel system ????? $179 CPU(at reduced price, no HSF ??), $180 motherboard, memory and case the same price either way, thats $360 Intel or $367 AMD WITH HSF and faster at stock!!!!

 

[apoppin]

<<Edit, WAIT a MINUTE, where do you get $441 for the Intel system ????? $179 CPU(at reduced price, no HSF ??), $180 motherboard, memory and case the same price either way, thats $360 Intel or $367 AMD WITH FSH and faster at stock!!!!>>

Let me Summarize the two systems:

Intel p-4
Kingston 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 - $75.00
Intel Pentium 4/ 2.8C GHz 800MHz FSB, 512K Cache, Hyper Threading - $199.00 it's a RETAIL CPU w/HSF
SLK3700AMB - Antec 350w/ case - $60
Asus "P4P800 Deluxe" -RETAIL - $127 for a total of $461 minus $20 on Monday with the Intel price drop) . . .


A-64 system
Asus (KV8 Deluxe) K8T800 Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket 754 CPU -$140
AMD Athlon 64 3000+, 512KB L2 Cache 64-bit Processor - Retail - $227
Kingston RAM - PC3200 - $75.00 (or $20 more for the "buffalo" PC $3700)
ANTEC Solution Series Case with 350W Power Supply, Model "SLK3700AMB" - $60
(is 350w sufficient for the A64?)
Total $502 (or 521 with the better memory)

vs. $441 for the Intel System (or $460 with better memory).

So here it is in B&W . . . the only other thing I would consider is the Buffalo PC3700 for the Intel System IF it would give better performance with the O/C - Still $441-460 for the Intel system which should reach 3.4Ghz . . .

or $502-521 for the A-64.

Now, whaddaya think?

 

[mechBgon]

...and it will be hampered by running on single-channel DDR like an old i845PE motherboard until such time as you get your better half (if you're so equipped ) to let you buy another 512MB stick. How far down the road is the other 512MB?

 

[Markfw]

OK, if you go cheap with the Intel, go $87 with the AMD system for the motherboard (chipset actually rates faster SIS 755-A), and it still wins(bang/buck),

$87 + $227= $314 (AMD, faster stock) vs $179(reduced monday)+$127 = $306 Intel.

Other parts the same no matter what you do. Faster at stock.

NOW What do you do ???????

 

[mechBgon]

I just thought of a better illustration: if the Athlon 64 setup were the one that's $60 cheaper, but it was going to run the RAM at only PC1600 speed until you added another memory module, would you buy it? :evil: Memory bandwidth chopped in half for $60 savings...? Noooooooooo thank you.

If you're still leaning towards the Intel-based rig, at least get a pair of 256MB modules so you have 512MB at dual-channel... that leaves you with two more DIMM slots available to upgrade with.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
...and it will be hampered by running on single-channel DDR like an old i845PE motherboard until such time as you get your better half (if you're so equipped ) to let you buy another 512MB stick. How far down the road is the other 512MB?

When I get the other $75 (or $94) . . .

March, '04 (the next month)

Remember, I am ALSO going to get another 512MB stick for the A-64 system (in March) . . . anyway . . . I want a total of 1GB . . . so that expense is (ultimately) identical

Do you think the Buffalo PC3700 is a bette deal than the Kingston for $19 less (considering I would O/C either system)?

 

[Markfw]

First, did you notice my edits ???

Second, AGAIN, WHICHEVER WAY YOU GO, BETTER RAM IS ALLWAYS BETTER FOR OCING.