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Best 4x Space Game?

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Oct 30, 2004
11,429
20
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Is Sins worth it if you only play vs AI? Or is the sell of the game the multiplayer?
It depends on what you enjoy. 99% of the people who play the game only play it vs. AI, and many of the people who play it online play it vs. AI (comp stomps) with their friends.

However, if you enjoy the game and become good at it, you might eventually discover that the AI does all sorts of silly, non-strategic (and often even ridiculous) things and desire a greater challenger and/or opponents that don't need large eco buffs to make the game interesting. When that happens you would want to play it in online multiplayer against human opponents. I play the game in 5v5 (no AIs) and it's a blast, especially when we can get a good, competitive game going.

I've never played it online since I can't commit to a 3-4 hours continuous session.. That, and I suck at it.
Assuming that you got to the point where you had enough knowledge of the game and skill to qualify to be an entry-level online multiplayer PvP player, it doesn't actually take 3-4 hours to play. For example, your average 5v5 only runs 1.25 to 1.75 hours (though epic games might last for 2.5 hours).
 

JDNIGHT

Junior Member
Feb 27, 2013
13
0
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Assuming that you got to the point where you had enough knowledge of the game and skill to qualify to be an entry-level online multiplayer PvP player, it doesn't actually take 3-4 hours to play. For example, your average 5v5 only runs 1.25 to 1.75 hours (though epic games might last for 2.5 hours).
I just bought Sins and so far I really like it. I was able to play a comp stomp with a friend and it was a blast. However, our game went almost 3 hours. When you say you play 5 v 5 and it lasts only 1.25 to 1.72 hrs, I have to imagine the game goes a lot more like a high level game of Starcraft than a 4X at that point. Is this true? Lots of feints, maneuvers and combined attacks from your team to knock out opponents early on?

By the way for everyone else, I highly recomend Sins of a Solar Empire. Although not as customizable or in-depth as a traditional trun based 4X, it is a lot of fun.
 
Oct 30, 2004
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The games are played at "fastest" speed setting, but it's still far from being an APM-based clickfest like Starcraft. Two reasons the games don't take that long to play is that (1) you match up 1-v-1 against opponents, so you personally don't have to kill 5 over guys; you have 4 teammates to help. (2) When the writing on the wall becomes clear, the players on the losing team call it "gg" and quit, which prevents the winning team from going through the boring mop-up motions and allows a new game to be formed.
 

KaOTiK

Lifer
Feb 5, 2001
10,876
7
0
I bought it and ended up playing for 8 1/2 hours straight today lol.

Damn good game. Once you start to get the hang of stuff it is nice. It has just enough automation that you can select to enable that it takes away some of the more tedious things but it doesn't do too much so you aren't ever in full control. I really like the fleet feature with building it and you can either requisition whatever spare ships you have built to be put into the fleet or it will build the entire thing from scratch spreading the build lone across your various factories so you don't have to wait as long.

It is a lot of fun building your own fleet and designing your ships. Need a ship for a specific task, open up the shipyard and build it since all the equipment is modular, and then you can save the design. Also from what I read, the game will use your custom made ships against you in other games as well (so if you are a bad designer win!, but if you are good doh!).

The only problem I did run into was when you start getting a large fleet and the games performance tanks. The guy said he is working on it. Thats right, 1 guy made the game, he outsourced the art but he did all the design and programming. You can tell when you play this dude knew what he wanted in his game.
 

KaOTiK

Lifer
Feb 5, 2001
10,876
7
0
Releases today (should be out on Steam now).

The latest patch seem to have cleared up the late game performance problems with large fleets.

I played yesterday for like 5 hours and had a lot of large fleets moving around and fighting with no problems at all.

I've put in almost 30 hours with the game and it has been great, I had it freeze once and crash once in that time but that was it. The dev (Zero) is really cool and very open to advice and grateful for feedback on the games forum.
 

rogerif

Junior Member
May 16, 2013
2
0
0
Hi, I'm new here, but I have been lurking.

I haven't seen anyone mention an open source 4X game called, FreeOrion.

Originally, before the fiasco of Master of Orion III, FreeOrion was intended as the "new" MOO2, although it has since then become it's own design, influenced by Master of Orion, along with a few other 4X games. FreeOrion is still in development and has been for years, but it is one of those few open source games that is constantly, albeit slowly, being completed.

With all that stated, I'm a solid MOO2 fan, always comparing other 4X games to what has become the de facto standard for all 4X games. Still, I've a sincere hope that one day, some game, perhaps self-published, will actually live up to the hype, and equal or exceed the quality of play as that found in MOO2.
 

you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
4,912
274
126
I had to watch the video to figure out you were talking about stardrive - hum....

Releases today (should be out on Steam now).

The latest patch seem to have cleared up the late game performance problems with large fleets.

I played yesterday for like 5 hours and had a lot of large fleets moving around and fighting with no problems at all.

I've put in almost 30 hours with the game and it has been great, I had it freeze once and crash once in that time but that was it. The dev (Zero) is really cool and very open to advice and grateful for feedback on the games forum.
 

boozie

Senior member
Oct 12, 2006
486
1
81
Originally, before the fiasco of Master of Orion III, FreeOrion was intended as the "new" MOO2, although it has since then become it's own design, influenced by Master of Orion, along with a few other 4X games. FreeOrion is still in development and has been for years, but it is one of those few open source games that is constantly, albeit slowly, being completed.
Yea I never ended up trying FreeOrion, is it fully playable? The progress just seemed slow/nonexistent so I stayed away as to not get my hopes up. MOO will always hold as the superior game for me, but it's such a shame that III was awful and no one has come out with a new one.
 

aigomorla

Cases and Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
18,975
1,417
126
stardrive

its on steam.
Its sort of on the same league as sins.
You build ships, you design ships, you go attack with ships.
Get planets, bomb planets, capture planets.

Make peace, make war, make them fear you... yada yada...
 

GoodRevrnd

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2001
6,796
578
126
I tried FreeOrion as recently as a couple months ago and it was really only 1/3 feature complete.
 

ArenCordial

Senior member
Sep 18, 2012
210
15
81
Tried Endless Space. Pretty decent but GalCiv2 Ultimate is still top in my mind.

Anyone else try Star Drive?
 

Matthiasa

Diamond Member
May 4, 2009
5,755
22
81
stardrive

its on steam.
Its sort of on the same league as sins.
You build ships, you design ships, you go attack with ships.
Get planets, bomb planets, capture planets.

Make peace, make war, make them fear you... yada yada...
It should be noted that it is extremely buggy for obvious reasons.
 

rogerif

Junior Member
May 16, 2013
2
0
0
Yea I never ended up trying FreeOrion, is it fully playable? The progress just seemed slow/nonexistent so I stayed away as to not get my hopes up. MOO will always hold as the superior game for me, but it's such a shame that III was awful and no one has come out with a new one.
As the Rev stated, FreeOrion is far from complete, but it is playable -up to a point. I check back with FreeOrion about once every 6 months to see if the next beta version has been made available. The game would have been finished long before now but at some point, years ago, the designers and coders decided to redesign the game, to distance themselves and the game from Master Of Orion.

If I recall correctly the redesign had to do more with the possible legal issues than anything else. Which is a shame, because since then, the current design no more resembles Master of Orion than "Weird Al" Yankovic resembles Shania Twain.
 

ixelion

Senior member
Feb 5, 2005
984
0
0
Wow, no mention of the X series yet? IMHO it's the best of the 4x games. I'd skip the prevous titles and go to the latest. Egosoft does a great job with their games, though there is a bit of a learning curve.
X3 is the only game in the past decade that has rekindled my joy of pc gaming since Mechwarrior 2.

The universe feels so real and believable, you feel like you are participating in a real world, not just playing an RTS. X3 did for me what Skyrim completly failed to do.

The first time I jumped into Terran space and watched a full scale war with Terran and Argon battleships, blew my mind. Massive ships trading missiles and laser fire and the ensuing explosions that filled the sky. The thought that one day I will be able to orchestrate such battle made me giddy. Truly an amazing experience.

I am wondering of there are any other 4X games out there that are this "real" feeling.
 
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Martimus

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2007
4,488
152
106
I wouldn't consider the X series 4X games, but they are quite good. I wish Egosoft would make the economy more functional though. As it is, NPCs don't buy for need other than to stock factories, and they get their ships and equipment through magic. It would be nice to sell ships and equipment to NPCs that are at war and need the extra guns to fit their ships.
 

HurleyBird

Platinum Member
Apr 22, 2003
2,305
733
136
MoO1 is easily the top 4X game. While lacking some of the fancy bits you find newer titles, the core gameplay in MoO 1 is close to perfect. Micro management is almost eliminated without sacrificing depth, and the tech tree (hell, the entire research system) has yet to be matched. The combat system isn't perfect, but works better than other turn based implementations.

Both MoO2 and Galciv2 are frankly poorly designed. While they can still be fun if you turn your brain off, in truth they are mind-numbingly formulaic and micro-centric. It's almost impossible to lose either game - even at the highest difficulty levels - once you understand the correct way to tinker with your empire to get it to run optimally. Once you do, you just go through the same motions over and over again, like a zombie shambling its way to an inevitable (and incredibly boring) victory. This is the great downfall of all micro-centric games, of which almost all 4x games fall under.

The combat system in MoO2 is both extraordinary and terrible at the same time. It starts out great and gets increasingly bad as a game progresses, culminating in the late game situation where the side that fires first destroys the entire enemy fleet before they are even able to move. MoO 2 combat works best when there are a small number of ships on each side, and stops working altogether when there are giant fleets or when offensive capability outstrips defensive capability by an order of magnitude late game.

Sins is a fun multiplayer game, but it's certainly not a full fledged 4x, although it does have 4x elements.

Endless space might be decent if the space combat weren't pants-on-head retarded. This is a flaw that Galciv 2 shares as well -- let weapons and defenses have advantages and disadvantages, that's fine, but never go full rock-paper-scissors.

SoTS 1 is actually pretty decent. Probably the best designed 4x after MoO1.

A recent 4x that has potential is Stardrive. While it shipped too early and was trashed in reviews, there's actually some good design underneath it's unfinished exterior. Space combat is really good, and ship design has more depth than any other 4x.
 
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Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,612
227
106
Well, speaking of this GoG has MoO 1, 2, and 3 all on sale today (all of which I just picked up).

So any more info on Stardrive? I know metacritic has pretty much panned it, but it sounds like it could be decent.
 

ixelion

Senior member
Feb 5, 2005
984
0
0
In a span of about 4 weeks I went on a 4x binge, here is a quick impression of various games:

Endless Space: Great game to learn on, but lacks complexity and depth, colony management does not require much thought, as there are no hard decisions to make. Research produces very incremental improvements, not satisfying.

Armada 2526: Really wanted to like this game but way too much micro management, automation takes away all control, no fun either way. The game has no personality or charm, but the music is great.

SotS 1 and 2: I am not fair to this series, I wrote them off immediately because I hated the UI and controls. Having to rotate through the research screen and having to click the move button every time I need to dispatch a fleet, pita.

Stardrive: Great depth, colony management is really fun with the sliders, choices are critical and can make or break your empire. Research isn't especially exciting neither is diplomacy, but the AI is very engaging and interactive, combat involves many controllable variables and produces great visuals. Automation is functional and doesn't just play the game for you.

Sins of A Solar Empire: Need to play this a bit more, but ultimately feel the exploit component is not very complex, but need more time with it.

GalCiv2: Only played for a bit as well, I loved the research and exploration of planets, but need more time with it.
 
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nemesismk2

Diamond Member
Sep 29, 2001
4,810
5
76
www.ultimatehardware.net
Hi, I'm new here, but I have been lurking.

I haven't seen anyone mention an open source 4X game called, FreeOrion.

Originally, before the fiasco of Master of Orion III, FreeOrion was intended as the "new" MOO2, although it has since then become it's own design, influenced by Master of Orion, along with a few other 4X games. FreeOrion is still in development and has been for years, but it is one of those few open source games that is constantly, albeit slowly, being completed.

With all that stated, I'm a solid MOO2 fan, always comparing other 4X games to what has become the de facto standard for all 4X games. Still, I've a sincere hope that one day, some game, perhaps self-published, will actually live up to the hype, and equal or exceed the quality of play as that found in MOO2.
I am a solid MOO2 fan and have been since it was released and before that MOO. :)
 

nemesismk2

Diamond Member
Sep 29, 2001
4,810
5
76
www.ultimatehardware.net
X3 is the only game in the past decade that has rekindled my joy of pc gaming since Mechwarrior 2.

The universe feels so real and believable, you feel like you are participating in a real world, not just playing an RTS. X3 did for me what Skyrim completly failed to do.

The first time I jumped into Terran space and watched a full scale war with Terran and Argon battleships, blew my mind. Massive ships trading missiles and laser fire and the ensuing explosions that filled the sky. The thought that one day I will be able to orchestrate such battle made me giddy. Truly an amazing experience.

I am wondering of there are any other 4X games out there that are this "real" feeling.
I played X2 the threat but was always too busy to get into X3 so will have to get into X3. The question is do i get into X3 with the Windows version or Linux version (once it's released ofcourse)
 

GoodRevrnd

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2001
6,796
578
126
Anyone see this game Horizon? Apparently it hits some sort of preview state on Steam this week. Mechanically it sounds like the closest MOO successor since, well, MOO. Finally, turn based combat!
 

Luckz

Junior Member
Oct 10, 2009
12
0
0
Anyone see this game Horizon? Apparently it hits some sort of preview state on Steam this week. Mechanically it sounds like the closest MOO successor since, well, MOO. Finally, turn based combat!
Bought it last night, will take a while to get the time to try it though.
It's been in development for quite some while already,
http://www.spacesector.com/blog/2010/08/horizon-a-new-turn-based-space-strategy-game-under-development/
http://www.l3o.com/horizon/faq/
http://store.steampowered.com/app/236130/
 

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