Bernie Sanders Favorability Rating = 61%

[ivwshane]

Let me add that I think what you are saying here is depicted in a ancient teaching story from the East that has become a popular puzzle offered here in the West, but here bereft of it's psychological implications. There was a teacher of dance who arrived here from the East sometime back who said, I consider him a man only who can care for both the wolf and the sheep entrusted to his keeping, and I believe he refers to the puzzle of the man who has to cross a river and with a cabbage a wolf and a sheep which he can cross with only one at a time. The solution, similar in my opinion to the self realization implied as necessary in your post, is symbolized by the third way out of the box inspirational, extra work and effort, that is required to solve the puzzle, that arrives as inspired realization.

That's your CBD talking. Your gut wants to believe that the wolf won't bite but history, facts and logic say otherwise.

 

[ivwshane]

This should inform you to press for a party that goes big, who favors inspirational candidates that want to take action.
In fact, for this regard, Sanders is just a stepping stone to a greater policy that is sorely needed.
To tell people it cannot be done, that we must be measured and dull... is going to drive off a segment of the population.

I think the lesson from this election is that the message is more important than the policy. That's not a good thing.

 

[ivwshane]

Safe to talk now?

Bernie's platform wasn't thought through in terms of political resistance or practicality however that was not its value. What it did was demonstrate an awareness of issues that concern Americans which are widely dismissed or given lip service by the Big Two.

Bernie wasn't the end to problems, but a step towards their recognition and perhaps some solutions to the problems even if by means other than he might suggest. Leading a fight without victory is no shame nor defeat if it encourages other to take up the baton and move forward, and that by no means Bernie would have no positive results, indeed there might have some compromise forced by citizens tired of partisan fights. Who knows what might have been, but here we are.

Bernie is a professional politician, one whose life long career required him to be able to push people hot buttons.

He's a cheerleader but not much of a football player.

 

[Blackjack200]

Safe to talk now?

Bernie's platform wasn't thought through in terms of political resistance or practicality however that was not its value. What it did was demonstrate an awareness of issues that concern Americans which are widely dismissed or given lip service by the Big Two.

Bernie wasn't the end to problems, but a step towards their recognition and perhaps some solutions to the problems even if by means other than he might suggest. Leading a fight without victory is no shame nor defeat if it encourages other to take up the baton and move forward, and that by no means Bernie would have no positive results, indeed there might have some compromise forced by citizens tired of partisan fights. Who knows what might have been, but here we are.

Yeah, I think your first paragraph is on the mark. Sanders as a politician and his campaign were mostly independent of corporate interests. He's essentially the real version of what Trump claimed to be (and I know I'm not the first person to argue that).

I think his success was illuminating, and showed that the assumptions about what kind of corporate and special interest support you need to compete are wrong. We need to demand more that are like him in terms of representing the people and not narrow interest groups.

 

[Blackjack200]

Smash teh debbil banks! (as mentioned here, Clintion's more moderate approach would actually work) - http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox...ke_bernie_sanders_seriously_on_financial.html

I recall reading other "progressive" proposals that seemed misguided, but I'd need to dig through his platform since he never seemed a viable candidate to me.

I mean, in broad strokes, the idea that the financial services industry and specifically the large bank-holding companies need to be regulated differently than they are today is hardly extreme or crazy. Frankly I didn't pay much attention to that part of his platform, because I don't think Wall Street regulation is as important as some of the other issues.

I think refusing to seriously consider or push for universal single-payer health care, as both major parties continue to do, is much crazier.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Bernie is a professional politician, one whose life long career required him to be able to push people hot buttons.

He's a cheerleader but not much of a football player.

Bernie stood with MLK when it was a real danger to do so. No other candidate had the strength of character to put their so called convictions on the line when it came to their safety. He had the balls to stand against that which is wrong. That's courage above all else I've seen in this mess of the past election.

Football player? That's Trump. Roll over the opposition because what matters is winning, and let God sort out the poor losing bastards.

A secret of management that I employed and worked well. When there is a problem it is easier to understand the dynamics to positively create team players and motivate them by explaining how they matter rather than crushing them. Certainly there are times when a more forceful approach is needed, but people personally invested, yes emotionally, works well the majority of the time. A complete lack or disregard for the human element is a path to failure.

Not a cheerleader, but a coach.

 

[ivwshane]

Bernie stood with MLK when it was a real danger to do so. No other candidate had the strength of character to put their so called convictions on the line when it came to their safety. He had the balls to stand against that which is wrong. That's courage above all else I've seen in this mess of the past election.

Football player? That's Trump. Roll over the opposition because what matters is winning, and let God sort out the poor losing bastards.

A secret of management that I employed and worked well. When there is a problem it is easier to understand the dynamics to positively create team players and motivate them by explaining how they matter rather than crushing them. Certainly there are times when a more forceful approach is needed, but people personally invested, yes emotionally, works well the majority of the time. A complete lack or disregard for the human element is a path to failure.

Not a cheerleader, but a coach.

My point and you illustrated it perfectly, is that Bernie isn't someone who gets things done, he's the guy who always seems to cheer for the right team.

He's appealing on an emotional level but he doesn't offer much else. I say this as someone that genuinely likes Bernie and would have had no problem voting for him if he had won the primary.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Clinton was basically the most popular politician in the country before she got involved in the 2016 election. Viewing popularity outside of an election as evidence of popularity in it is a bad idea.

Well, technically everything she did from 2009 to 2016 was probably done ultimately to get involved in the 2016 election, so I guess you have a point.

 

[Moonbeam]

I think the lesson from this election is that the message is more important than the policy. That's not a good thing.

I swear to God I don't believe you get it. Message is everything. That's the whole point. The message has to resonate with what people feel. It has to call them to a higher place, inspire what is best in people, speak to what people long for that is of the best of out natures. What we have is a democratic message directed at gender and identity politics based on a smug sense of intellectual superiority. That's not what people long for. We have a a two party system and neither of them are addressing the hopelessness and powerlessness that people feel because the wealthy have stolen our democracy. If you are not a progressive democrat focused on that one single overriding issue without which everything else is lost, you're a brain-dead individual, in my opinion. The democratic party sold its soul when it went after corporate donations and a moderate economic agenda. We need a revolution and it was that and that alone that made Sanders the only choice for President. He called for millions to march to stand up to corporate interests. Without that revolution you can kiss this country's ass good bye. The fact that his economic ideas have problems is not the relevant issue. We need public financing of campaigns, the elimination of the notion that speech is money or that corporations are people, a revamping of the election system including multi-day voting electronically or by mail, a system where people can vote no to all the above or rank their vote so that if their first choices don't win their vote goes to a second choice and so on. Democracy in America is dead. See if you can get that through your head. Only a revolution can save us. If we do not do that, the only change we will see in the US will be corporate approved. You are going to have to go to war against the wealthy or go out with a whimper.

That is the message and it translates into policy not the other way round.

We are in a hopeless situation right now and that is a fact. We are powerless and that is a fact. That is not what people want to feel.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

People feel hopeless only because the blindfold of labor protectionism and Murrica First! sentiment gave them unrealistic expectations. Now that they have to look through their big boy goggles, they're shitting their depends. Americans were doing just fine by the end of Obama's presidency, and thanks to continued advancements in technology (largely driven by corporations), we'll continue to do even better if fantasy-world populists like Trump and Sanders don't fuck us over. Neoliberalism isn't perfect, though I'd argue some of the worst elements of corporate corruption (e.g. the military-defense complex) predate it regardless. The occasional kickback and lobbyist gift is a small price to pay when considering the alternative in France.

 

[ivwshane]

I swear to God I don't believe you get it. Message is everything. That's the whole point. The message has to resonate with what people feel. It has to call them to a higher place, inspire what is best in people, speak to what people long for that is of the best of out natures. What we have is a democratic message directed at gender and identity politics based on a smug sense of intellectual superiority. That's not what people long for. We have a a two party system and neither of them are addressing the hopelessness and powerlessness that people feel because the wealthy have stolen our democracy. If you are not a progressive democrat focused on that one single overriding issue without which everything else is lost, you're a brain-dead individual, in my opinion. The democratic party sold its soul when it went after corporate donations and a moderate economic agenda. We need a revolution and it was that and that alone that made Sanders the only choice for President. He called for millions to march to stand up to corporate interests. Without that revolution you can kiss this country's ass good bye. The fact that his economic ideas have problems is not the relevant issue. We need public financing of campaigns, the elimination of the notion that speech is money or that corporations are people, a revamping of the election system including multi-day voting electronically or by mail, a system where people can vote no to all the above or rank their vote so that if their first choices don't win their vote goes to a second choice and so on. Democracy in America is dead. See if you can get that through your head. Only a revolution can save us. If we do not do that, the only change we will see in the US will be corporate approved. You are going to have to go to war against the wealthy or go out with a whimper.

That is the message and it translates into policy not the other way round.

We are in a hopeless situation right now and that is a fact. We are powerless and that is a fact. That is not what people want to feel.

I get it just fine, it's just that I view it as a human defect and you do not. Its illogical. Positive results and policies shouldn't need to start with a good message, the policies and results should speak for themselves.

My issue with Bernie is not his message, it's his lack of a thoughtful game plan to get things in motion whether via his own actions or from the inspiration others draw from him.

Do you understand what I am saying or will there be another three pages of you paraphrasing what we are saying going no where?

 

[Jhhnn]

People feel hopeless only because the blindfold of labor protectionism and Murrica First! sentiment gave them unrealistic expectations. Now that they have to look through their big boy goggles, they're shitting their depends. Americans were doing just fine by the end of Obama's presidency, and thanks to continued advancements in technology (largely driven by corporations), we'll continue to do even better if fantasy-world populists like Trump and Sanders don't fuck us over. Neoliberalism isn't perfect, though I'd argue some of the worst elements of corporate corruption (e.g. the military-defense complex) predate it regardless. The occasional kickback and lobbyist gift is a small price to pay when considering the alternative in France.

Freedom fries, right?

 

[Moonbeam]

People feel hopeless only because the blindfold of labor protectionism and Murrica First! sentiment gave them unrealistic expectations. Now that they have to look through their big boy goggles, they're shitting their depends. Americans were doing just fine by the end of Obama's presidency, and thanks to continued advancements in technology (largely driven by corporations), we'll continue to do even better if fantasy-world populists like Trump and Sanders don't fuck us over. Neoliberalism isn't perfect, though I'd argue some of the worst elements of corporate corruption (e.g. the military-defense complex) predate it regardless. The occasional kickback and lobbyist gift is a small price to pay when considering the alternative in France.

I take it then that you do not agree that people feel powerless and hopeless because the have nothing to vote for they feel is in their interest, right? What I personally take from that is that you have no idea as to what people feel and just knee-jerk ideological indoctrination. Worthless old fuckers and their depends..........

 

[Moonbeam]

Act

That's your CBD talking. Your gut wants to believe that the wolf won't bite but history, facts and logic say otherwise.

Actually I would strongly advise you not to tell me I believe my wolf doesn't bite. When I say people don't know what they feel in part that's because I do know intimately.

This reminds me of another story from the East about a man who heard some noises coming from his barn and went to investigate, caused by a lion that had gone inside to sleep and which said to itself as it drifted off into slumber, 'that farmer wouldn't so confidently poke around in the dark if he knew I was here.

 

[ivwshane]

Act

Actually I would strongly advise you not to tell me I believe my wolf doesn't bite. When I say people don't know what they feel in part that's because I do know intimately.

This reminds me of another story from the East about a man who heard some noises coming from his barn and went to investigate, caused by a lion that had gone inside to sleep and which said to itself as it drifted off into slumber, 'that farmer wouldn't so confidently poke around in the dark if he knew I was here.

Oh, I know you believe your wolf bites, the problem for you is your boy Bernie is no wolf. That's not my opinion, that's history's opinion (go ahead and find me any accomplishment of some significance whether from his actions or inspired by him). Hell, he couldn't even inspire his voters to go out and vote for Hillary.

 

[blankslate]

Obviously this is fake news....

Hillary would have had a 70% approval rating if it wasn't for misogynist Berni-Bros undermining and sabotaging her campaign at every turn out of spite.


______________

 

[ivwshane]

Obviously this is fake news....

Hillary would have had a 70% approval rating if it wasn't for misogynist Berni-Bros undermining and sabotaging her campaign at every turn out of spite.


______________

Unlikely. Her approval rating tracked pretty strongly with the Republican attacks on her. That is, before she ran, she was liked, after she announced (or hinted), Republicans turned on the attack machine and he approval ratings went down. Bernie on the other hand never had to deal with that and in fact had Republicans praising him (even running pro Bernie commercials). But I don't expect you to be aware of that because you are a dumb ass Bernie supporter. As I said before you are the lefts version of a trump supporter, all about the feels and ignorant as fuck.

 

[desura]

If Sanders had won the Presidency, he'd be really unpopular right now, I think in the 40's probably. Not as bad as Trump, but he would be very unpopular and there would be wild conspiracy theories coming from the right and the media would have this "dark" narrative about him.

I honestly think that Sanders-socialism is really more of a "fuck you" to the free market system which has been ascendant since Carter-Reagan-Bush-Clinton. No one really thinks it through, but it's like a fuck it attitude.

 

[ivwshane]

If Sanders had won the Presidency, he'd be really unpopular right now, I think in the 40's probably. Not as bad as Trump, but he would be very unpopular and there would be wild conspiracy theories coming from the right and the media would have this "dark" narrative about him.

I honestly think that Sanders-socialism is really more of a "fuck you" to the free market system which has been ascendant since Carter-Reagan-Bush-Clinton. No one really thinks it through, but it's like a fuck it attitude.

Unlikely. His policy positions were similar to Clinton's and its highly unlikely a Republican controlled Congress wouldn't have obstructed him like they did Obama, especially considering Bernie has been ranked as one of the most partisan senators. His approval rating would most likely be where Clinton's would have been, split down party lines with positive views among independents.

 

[Jhhnn]

Obviously this is fake news....

Hillary would have had a 70% approval rating if it wasn't for misogynist Berni-Bros undermining and sabotaging her campaign at every turn out of spite.


______________

The concern trolling was epic, no doubt about it. I remember several passing thru here & everywhere. Where are they today?

The Trump/Russian campaign tore down Clinton in a most effective fashion. Poor Bernie! So Cheated! Crooked Hillary! What is she hiding? Wall St connections! Foundation slush fund! Email indictment! Benghazi!

Way too many Bernie supporters fell for it- hook, line, & sinker.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I take it then that you do not agree that people feel powerless and hopeless because the have nothing to vote for they feel is in their interest, right? What I personally take from that is that you have no idea as to what people feel and just knee-jerk ideological indoctrination. Worthless old fuckers and their depends..........

Politicians have been milking the old man vote (enjoy any mental imagery there) for decades, maybe the reason they feel hopeless is because they realize that all of their imagined accomplishments ultimately amount to having their hands held through America's most dominant period? I mean, what more do they want? Most aren't working anymore, and for those that still are, seniority can provide benefits that prospective employees don't have in finding jobs. If social security or medicaid or anything else goes bankrupt, it'll happen after they're already dead. If they had less self-love during their formative years perhaps they would have been less content to coast through life and discover at the end of it that they had nothing.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

The concern trolling was epic, no doubt about it. I remember several passing thru here & everywhere. Where are they today?

The Trump/Russian campaign tore down Clinton in a most effective fashion. Poor Bernie! So Cheated! Crooked Hillary! What is she hiding? Wall St connections! Foundation slush fund! Email indictment! Benghazi!

Way too many Bernie supporters fell for it- hook, line, & sinker.

Do you think these concern trolls are actually people that go around pumping up Bernie with the very intent of sabotaging Clinton? Like, Republicans paid people on this forum to say "Hey you know I was going to vote Clinton but after the way she treated Bernie I can't possibly"? The "concern trolling" meme just doesn't make that much sense. And obviously, if a Bernie-bro genuinely was pissed at Clinton, it's not trolling by definition. You've been parroting it for well over a year now any time Clinton is criticized in any way, which is ironic since she was apparently this teflon candidate until the mean Republicans smeared her with total lies.

 

[Jaskalas]

I swear to God I don't believe you get it. Message is everything. That's the whole point. The message has to resonate with what people feel. It has to call them to a higher place, inspire what is best in people, speak to what people long for that is of the best of out natures. What we have is a democratic message directed at gender and identity politics based on a smug sense of intellectual superiority. That's not what people long for. We have a a two party system and neither of them are addressing the hopelessness and powerlessness that people feel because the wealthy have stolen our democracy.

Exactly this.

 

[ivwshane]

Do you think these concern trolls are actually people that go around pumping up Bernie with the very intent of sabotaging Clinton? Like, Republicans paid people on this forum to say "Hey you know I was going to vote Clinton but after the way she treated Bernie I can't possibly"? The "concern trolling" meme just doesn't make that much sense. And obviously, if a Bernie-bro genuinely was pissed at Clinton, it's not trolling by definition. You've been parroting it for well over a year now any time Clinton is criticized in any way, which is ironic since she was apparently this teflon candidate until the mean Republicans smeared her with total lies.

Paid? No. Those guys did it for their team. They'll do anything to be apart of a group, especially one that shares their political views. Of course not all Bernie supporters were trolls. But the same people you described in your previous post also exist on the left, albeit in smaller numbers. However, like their counterparts on the right, they are driven by emotions and are typically ignorant and politically active. Sadly, I think it's a growing segment (hopefully one that ends up fixing itself) and neither, the ignorant trump supporter or the ignorant Bernie supporter are good for democracy and that's if you ignore their policy positions.

 

[Jhhnn]

Do you think these concern trolls are actually people that go around pumping up Bernie with the very intent of sabotaging Clinton? Like, Republicans paid people on this forum to say "Hey you know I was going to vote Clinton but after the way she treated Bernie I can't possibly"? The "concern trolling" meme just doesn't make that much sense. And obviously, if a Bernie-bro genuinely was pissed at Clinton, it's not trolling by definition. You've been parroting it for well over a year now any time Clinton is criticized in any way, which is ironic since she was apparently this teflon candidate until the mean Republicans smeared her with total lies.

Your comments fall into the realm of willful blindness-

http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-internet-trolls-and-donald-trump-2016-7

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...16af66098fe_story.html?utm_term=.6e63638ecc17

https://www.google.com/search?q=russian+troling&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=russian+trolling&*

Of course they were concern trolling for Bernie you silly man.