Bernanke is INSANE

[werepossum]

Actually, I don't think there's a problem. I've bolded the two factors that I didn't include in my own calculation.

The original comment I responded to concerned how long it took a wage earner to get paid back his own contributions. So the employer contribution wouldn't properly be considered for that calculation. That alone cuts the payback time above in half - to 9.4 years.

The other factor - accrued interest that the wage-earner WOULD have collected had he kept his money rather than paying it in SS taxes - is a totally valid consideration: When I pay a dollar into SS in 1970, it's going to be a lot more dollars in 2009. However, the original comment said, "How long does it take to get back the dollars you pay into SS?" I took that literally, and my simple-minded calculation yielded 8 years for my own worst-case situation.

The employer "contribution" is certainly your money, it's part of what your employer pays to employ you just as your employer-furnished health insurance is part of your compensation. (If you doubt this look at the self-employed, who pay both parts.) It gets paid to the government rather than to you, but then so does your "contribution". Politicians just broke it up to make you think you were being charged less. All of these costs - the employer "contribution" to Medicare/Medicaid, unemployment insurance, worker's comp - are parts of our compensation, it's just that the government seizes these parts of it to spend for us because we're such inept, simple things.

 

[dmcowen674]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/03/bernanke-channels-willie_n_378963.html

He wants to cut back on Medicare and social security while Wall Street keeps raping us? He can do this if he pays me back for thirty fucking years I have paid in for these entitlement programs.

I'm all for Republicans losing their money even if it means many on the left is collateral damage as well.

 

[BoberFett]

I'm all for Republicans losing their money even if it means many on the left is collateral damage as well.

Anybody else want to start collecting money for Dave? Well, not for Dave exactly, but that we could bribe a Georgia DA with and put him in prison?

 

[Vic]

The fact is, your contributions to Medicare and Social Security don't come close to covering what you'll probably take from it (on average). These programs were supposed to pay for themselves (i.e. only those who contribute earn a benefit) but they don't.

Ok... if that's the case, then I'll take what I've already paid in right now...


Text

 

[Vic]

I'm all for Republicans losing their money even if it means many on the left is collateral damage as well.

That's because you're a moron, Dave...

 

[JKing106]

Those government cheese checks need to stop completely.

People need to count on only themselves to retire.

You also should pay out of pocket to pave the roads in each direction up to 1000 yards from your house, home school your children, do it yourself when it comes to police matters or if your house burns, and should be kicked to the fucking curb to fend for yourself on the street after age 60 because people that old are useless, and baggage. Sound good to you?

 

[piasabird]

The reason I am against social security is that it is not a seperate entitlement program. It is just a tax that goes into the general fund, which is often stolen by the people in Washington DC for their pet projects. As long as it is run this way, I am against it. This is also why I would be against government run health care. Health care dollars would be considered part of the general fund and not managed separately. The people in congress would steal every dime of the health care money and then would allow benefits to be denied and then delay all the payments till they were trillions of dollars behind. This is how the government works.

 

[BoberFett]

You also should pay out of pocket to pave the roads in each direction up to 1000 yards from your house, home school your children, do it yourself when it comes to police matters or if your house burns, and should be kicked to the fucking curb to fend for yourself on the street after age 60 because people that old are useless, and baggage. Sound good to you?

Try to follow the conversation. Roads, schools, police and fire are local issues. We're talking about the federal government which has a bigger budget than all other types of US government combined and accomplishes less.

Lower federal taxes and raise local taxes and I'll be happy. At least any citizen can personally go to a council meeting and complain when the city is screwing them. When is the last time you were invited to talk before the US congress?

 

[tcsenter]

The original comment I responded to concerned how long it took a wage earner to get paid back his own contributions. So the employer contribution wouldn't properly be considered for that calculation. That alone cuts the payback time above in half - to 9.4 years.

And let's not forget Medicare, which makes no pretense of being self-sustaining. e.g. my father was diagnosed with lung cancer a few years after retiring. Medicare paid over $40,000 for all his treatments and surgery, that's some factor more than he ever paid into Medicare over 40 years.

A very high percentage of SS pensioners are going to have quadruple bypasses, cancer, total hip replacements, blah blah blah. Just one procedure or illness is going to blow out all the contributions they made over 40 years. And many people are living long enough to have multiple procedures or illnesses.

 

[Modelworks]

My parents both rely on social security . My dad is 80 and my mom 70. They get between the two of them $1800 a month. Out of that they have to pay medicare premiums of $100 each and co-pays, and prescriptions not covered by medicare so that adds up to about $400 medical cost, so net income is $1400 a month. They don't qualify for any other aid , so no food stamps, or other help from the government or state.

I think some people have the mindset that people getting social security are living great and getting all sorts of government aid, but the opposite is true. Many seniors go without because they can't afford to live with what they get and are now too old to work. I went to my dads for thanksgiving and found they had almost no food in the refrigerator , my sister was bringing all the food . I asked when was the last time they went shopping and was told that it was last week and they couldn't afford to go again till after the 3rd. I got upset about why they didn't call me and was told they didn't want to ask me that I had my own life to live and it wasn't right for them to borrow money from me. I got even more upset because I told them borrow ? After all they have done for me and even if they wanted my help they didn't want it for free. That is the way most seniors are , they come from a time when they did work hard, they didn't depend on the government for everything and now that they are older are often too proud to ask for help. I'm glad that my dad has several children that can help out when needed but a lot of seniors don't have that. When we start referring to our seniors in dollar signs saying they cost too much, it isn't fair to pay for surgeries, it is time to turn in your humanity card and start living with the animals in the wild because that is what animals do , survival of the fittest.

I don't care if they take all my wages , I'll do that before I let one senior die because some bureaucrat decides their life is not worth the cost.

 

[BoberFett]

My parents both rely on social security . My dad is 80 and my mom 70. They get between the two of them $1800 a month. Out of that they have to pay medicare premiums of $100 each and co-pays, and prescriptions not covered by medicare so that adds up to about $400 medical cost, so net income is $1400 a month. They don't qualify for any other aid , so no food stamps, or other help from the government or state.

I think some people have the mindset that people getting social security are living great and getting all sorts of government aid, but the opposite is true. Many seniors go without because they can't afford to live with what they get and are now too old to work. I went to my dads for thanksgiving and found they had almost no food in the refrigerator , my sister was bringing all the food . I asked when was the last time they went shopping and was told that it was last week and they couldn't afford to go again till after the 3rd. I got upset about why they didn't call me and was told they didn't want to ask me that I had my own life to live and it wasn't right for them to borrow money from me. I got even more upset because I told them borrow ? After all they have done for me and even if they wanted my help they didn't want it for free. That is the way most seniors are , they come from a time when they did work hard, they didn't depend on the government for everything and now that they are older are often too proud to ask for help. I'm glad that my dad has several children that can help out when needed but a lot of seniors don't have that. When we start referring to our seniors in dollar signs saying they cost too much, it isn't fair to pay for surgeries, it is time to turn in your humanity card and start living with the animals in the wild because that is what animals do , survival of the fittest.

I don't care if they take all my wages , I'll do that before I let one senior die because some bureaucrat decides their life is not worth the cost.

Then why are you on this forum? If you're so damn adamant to save the world, sell everything you own, give away everything you earn, and start putting your money where your mouth is. The fact that you're here says you're a liar and just want everyone else to foot the bill.

 

[JKing106]

Is there a more useless waste of space on this forum than sandorkski? I'm unable to think of one.

Oh, the irony.

 

[Modelworks]

Then why are you on this forum? If you're so damn adamant to save the world, sell everything you own, give away everything you earn, and start putting your money where your mouth is. The fact that you're here says you're a liar and just want everyone else to foot the bill.

So you think we should just kill old people since they don't make enough money ? You talk big with your tough luck attitude until it is you that has to make the decisions and watch as the person dies. Are you going to be the one to walk into a seniors hospital room and pull the plug or are you just spouting BS since you wouldn't have the guts to stand by your convictions ?

 

[JKing106]

Then why are you on this forum? If you're so damn adamant to save the world, sell everything you own, give away everything you earn, and start putting your money where your mouth is. The fact that you're here says you're a liar and just want everyone else to foot the bill.

You're a real piece of shit, you know that? I never thought I'd put anyone on the ignore list, but you just got it, buddy.

 

[BoberFett]

Oh dear, I'm on a fifteen year old's ignore list! Whatever shall I do?

Did the guy not just say he would pay 100% to taxes if it meant one less senior died? You little twats just hate getting called on your emotional outcries that you aren't willing to back up your bleeding heart bullshit.

PS My family has pulled the plug on family members because they're old and in pain sometimes you just need to let go. Just because you're an immature little tosser that doesn't know how to accept death as an inevitable part of life and want everybody to live forever for your own selfish emotional reasons doesn't mean the rest of the world shares your particular weaknesses. Keeping people alive at all costs is more immoral than letting people die gracefully, IMO. That Americans can't accept death is truly one of our greatest shames. It shows how completely immature we are as a nation.

 

[Ozoned]

Oh dear, I'm on a fifteen year old's ignore list! Whatever shall I do?

Did the guy not just say he would pay 100% to taxes if it meant one less senior died? You little twats just hate getting called on your emotional outcries that you aren't willing to back up your bleeding heart bullshit.

PS My family has pulled the plug on family members because they're old and in pain sometimes you just need to let go. Just because you're an immature little tosser that doesn't know how to accept death as an inevitable part of life and want everybody to live forever for your own selfish emotional reasons doesn't mean the rest of the world shares your particular weaknesses. Keeping people alive at all costs is more immoral than letting people die gracefully, IMO. That Americans can't accept death is truly one of our greatest shames. It shows how completely immature we are as a nation.

It's the economy, stupid. We buy what we are sold.

 

[StageLeft]

I think some people have the mindset that people getting social security are living great and getting all sorts of government aid, but the opposite is true. Many seniors go without because they can't afford to live with what they get and are now too old to work.

That is not true, either. As a whole seniors are not terribly off; they are not mostly all living check to check trying to choose between ramen noodles and their heating bill. Many of them are in fact very wealthy.

 

[Modelworks]

Oh dear, I'm on a fifteen year old's ignore list! Whatever shall I do?

Did the guy not just say he would pay 100% to taxes if it meant one less senior died? You little twats just hate getting called on your emotional outcries that you aren't willing to back up your bleeding heart bullshit.

No I said that I would pay all my wages if it meant that someone was going to die because they couldn't get medical care and would die as a result. FYI I'm not little, I just turned 40 so you can take your talking down omnipotent attitude and shove it, I'm not someone who just sits on the side or spends my time on internet forums complaining, I actually act in the real world on what I believe. I spend as much time volunteering and helping the elderly and others as I do working a paid job, they are one of our greatest assets and the world is a better place with them in it. People that consider the elderly as expendable because they might not be able to get that brand new car or pay for a new house if they help someone else are a lost cause. As you mature you learn that working 60 hours a week, paying mortgages, buying the latest and greatest of everything and killing yourself to keep it does not bring happiness. I have been there I know where that mindset leads.

If the world ever becomes a place where the only value of a person is how much $$$ they are worth, then don't worry about me getting on your case about supporting the elderly, I'll shoot myself as that is not a world I want to be part of.

 

[Modelworks]

That is not true, either. As a whole seniors are not terribly off; they are not mostly all living check to check trying to choose between ramen noodles and their heating bill. Many of them are in fact very wealthy.

I disagree. I spend hours every week volunteering with the elderly and the ones I see are not wealthy. They live check to check and often do go without food because of health care cost. Even with medicare and medicaid many do without. The elderly are from a very proud generation. They don't go around begging and asking for handouts like the latest generation. They often would rather sit at home and do without than ask someone for help because they are ashamed they cannot do for themselves.

 

[werepossum]

And let's not forget Medicare, which makes no pretense of being self-sustaining. e.g. my father was diagnosed with lung cancer a few years after retiring. Medicare paid over $40,000 for all his treatments and surgery, that's some factor more than he ever paid into Medicare over 40 years.

A very high percentage of SS pensioners are going to have quadruple bypasses, cancer, total hip replacements, blah blah blah. Just one procedure or illness is going to blow out all the contributions they made over 40 years. And many people are living long enough to have multiple procedures or illnesses.

Medicare was evidently set up by insane people; it was required by law to grow at 10% a year. It doesn't take too much smarts to know that if one part of the budget is set to grow at 10% forever and the underlying economy is regulated to grow much more slowly, then eventually that entitlement will dominate and crash the system. It also points out the problems with relying on government. A private company would have invested the premiums, so that the money would have grown exponentially over the years. Government spent the money and replaced it with IOUs, so that instead of earning interest, Medicare costs interest. Now Obama and the Democrats want to raid Medicare for $400 billion because on paper it has a huge balance for a couple more decades, but in reality the Medicare trust fund is nothing but IOUs that are already over-promised. Any money taken out of Medicare either lowers the life quality of (or kills off) seniors, or has to be re-borrowed.

Modelworks, my sympathies for your parents' condition, which isn't unusual. My parents are fairly well off, having been successful and also saved, but I know in a lot of areas it's not possible to exist decently on SS even if your house is paid off. I've met a lot of people from expensive, high tax places like California and New Jersey who have moved to Tennessee because they could not afford to live in their old places. Usually they come off quite well by selling their old house, but if you happen to live someplace like Detroit, where the economy is in collapse, you're totally screwed. Overall seniors live pretty well, but those who exist solely on SS are in many areas quite poor indeed. I know one couple from New Jersey who bought my uncle's house, in New Jersey their property tax alone was more than both their SS payments. Luckily at least one has a pension too and their house was paid off, so they sold it and bought a much nicer house in Tennessee for less than half the money, but if they had remained in New Jersey their savings would have soon been depleted.

 

[Zebo]

No I said that I would pay all my wages if it meant that someone was going to die because they couldn't get medical care and would die as a result. FYI I'm not little, I just turned 40 so you can take your talking down omnipotent attitude and shove it, I'm not someone who just sits on the side or spends my time on internet forums complaining, I actually act in the real world on what I believe. I spend as much time volunteering and helping the elderly and others as I do working a paid job, they are one of our greatest assets and the world is a better place with them in it. People that consider the elderly as expendable because they might not be able to get that brand new car or pay for a new house if they help someone else are a lost cause. As you mature you learn that working 60 hours a week, paying mortgages, buying the latest and greatest of everything and killing yourself to keep it does not bring happiness. I have been there I know where that mindset leads.

If the world ever becomes a place where the only value of a person is how much $$$ they are worth, then don't worry about me getting on your case about supporting the elderly, I'll shoot myself as that is not a world I want to be part of.

Drama queen. And elderly assets? Gimme a break. Emotionally at most and they can baby sit but they are a financial liability on the system. Nothing wrong with that perse since at one time they were an asset while others were liabilities but don't call them an asset.

 

[addisonadam]

Good Conversation.....more helpful.......

__________________
Compound Interest Formula

 

[drebo]

You also should pay out of pocket to pave the roads in each direction up to 1000 yards from your house, home school your children, do it yourself when it comes to police matters or if your house burns, and should be kicked to the fucking curb to fend for yourself on the street after age 60 because people that old are useless, and baggage. Sound good to you?

Developers who build houses DO have to pay to do this, as well as pay to extend utilities and install fire hydrants. It's all condition of getting certain permits. Don't think the city has anything to do with these things. Additionally, cities tax businesses with street exposure and use local taxes on the sale of gasoline in order to pay for maintenance of ALL roads.

Schooling was specifically delegated to localities and is paid for (or supposed to be paid for) by local property taxes and lotto proceeds. However, because the school system has become so overbloated and overregulated, these SIGNIFICANT chunks of money don't come close to paying for it. The correct solution to this problem is to get rid of the bulk of the beauraucracy, not beg the federal government for more money.

The bottom line is that the Constitution explicitly states that the federal government has no business in ANY of the issues you mentioned (or any of the issues that are currently driving this country bankrupt) and should not be involved.

 

[Exterous]

So you think we should just kill old people since they don't make enough money ? You talk big with your tough luck attitude until it is you that has to make the decisions and watch as the person dies. Are you going to be the one to walk into a seniors hospital room and pull the plug or are you just spouting BS since you wouldn't have the guts to stand by your convictions ?

No, it's more of a lack of sympathy about having to support people who didn't properly plan for retirement.

 

[Exterous]

Also no way we should abandon SS and go to self-saving plan. Most people are idiots and apparently cannot handle stuff like mortgage or credit card contracts, much less portfolio allocation and risk management or for that matter saving money in general.

So give me an opt out option. I would even be willing to sit through a class where they tell me that I will have NO safety net by opting out. I would then gladly sign the release form and continue on my way