Berlin terrorist suspect caught-dead update

[chucky2]

Oh, do elaborate as much as possible to let it be known what american conservatism is about.

Well, I can elaborate on what liberalism is about: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/25/us/chicago-shootings-gun-violence.html?_r=0 <insert Billy Bob continuing to laugh at you>

What I'm liking about 2017 so far is your failure continues to bring me entertainment. 2017 is going to be another great year in that respect haha

 

[desura]

Christ you are a dumbass.

Terrorism has been around far longer than before the current West-Muslim conflict. Muslims dont do terrorism any different than other people. They are only doing it more right now because they are stuck in an asymmetrical conflict, where they cant stand up to other people and fight them conventionally.

Yes they do. America waged a war in Vietnam which killed a million people, countless more agent orange birth defects.

How many Vietnamese do you see killing random people?

America supported the authoritarian dictator in Chile. How many Chileans are coming to America and killing random people?

It could go on and on. everyone has grievances. For some reason, Muslims cling to their grievances and act on them. They wage terrorism in a way much more despicable than the IRA ever did.

 

[MrSquished]

Yes they do. America waged a war in Vietnam which killed a million people, countless more agent orange birth defects.

How many Vietnamese do you see killing random people?

America supported the authoritarian dictator in Chile. How many Chileans are coming to America and killing random people?

It could go on and on. everyone has grievances. For some reason, Muslims cling to their grievances and act on them. They wage terrorism in a way much more despicable than the IRA ever did.

That's exactly my point, you deem Muslim terrorists as worse than anything else because they travel to western nations and attack there. Aka it's just because you value western lives more than others, or something.

I mean you ever hear of a little group called the Khmer Rouge for example? They terrorized millions and millions and killed nearly 3 MILLION in their reign of terror in a mere 4 years. There are so many instances of wanton killing and terrorism both by state governments, rebel factions, militant groups and political organizations.

In the last 2 years in Europe Muslim terrorists killed 443 people. In the US it's gotta be less than 100. Total worldwide including non-Western targets it's 1,200 killed over 2 years. It's 1,200 too much but the numbers give some perspective. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/03/25/world/map-isis-attacks-around-the-world.html?_r=0

As far as say ISIS in Syria I couldn't find figures, they just breakdown Syrian deaths overall as around 450,000 and ISIS is responsible for a chunk of that. ISIS is a despicable organization, the way they terrorize populations in their caliphate and then their limited operations overseas that includes shootings and vehicle attacks. Their MO is as bad as anyones - killing innocents, torturing innocents and terrorizing populations.

But there is nothing special about their terror that makes it worse than other horrific terrorist acts. Their biggest difference is they travel more.

 

[desura]

That's exactly my point, you deem Muslim terrorists as worse than anything else because they travel to western nations and attack there. Aka it's just because you value western lives more than others, or something.

I mean you ever hear of a little group called the Khmer Rouge for example? They terrorized millions and millions and killed nearly 3 MILLION in their reign of terror in a mere 4 years. There are so many instances of wanton killing and terrorism both by state governments, rebel factions, militant groups and political organizations.

In the last 2 years in Europe Muslim terrorists killed 443 people. In the US it's gotta be less than 100. Total worldwide including non-Western targets it's 1,200 killed over 2 years. It's 1,200 too much but the numbers give some perspective. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/03/25/world/map-isis-attacks-around-the-world.html?_r=0

As far as say ISIS in Syria I couldn't find figures, they just breakdown Syrian deaths overall as around 450,000 and ISIS is responsible for a chunk of that. ISIS is a despicable organization, the way they terrorize populations in their caliphate and then their limited operations overseas that includes shootings and vehicle attacks. Their MO is as bad as anyones - killing innocents, torturing innocents and terrorizing populations.

But there is nothing special about their terror that makes it worse than other horrific terrorist acts. Their biggest difference is they travel more.

Yes, the Khmer Rouge was the responsibility of the Cambodian people. I sure as hell don't know anything about Cambodia. I can't predict the future. It is unfortunate that it happened, but that is their society. What is the alternative? An eternal American occupation? You seem intent on making excuses drawing on the most disparate of examples.

Muslim terrorism isn't just about the number of dead. You're making the fallacy again of comparing dead the bathtub slips, and neglecting that an intentioned act is far worse than accidental. I reckon that 9-11 and the response it provoked probably cost the US treasury 7-8 trillion, if you include both Iraq and Afghanistan operations. And we have spend all of this money infringing on civil liberties because there are Islamic terrorists out to cause deadly harm, we end up with Snowden. The costs of prevention should also be included, and they are substantial. The fact that Muslim terrorists display this level of depravity relative to their power, means that with increased power, they are capable and willing of inflicting immense harm.

 

[MrSquished]

Yes, the Khmer Rouge was the responsibility of the Cambodian people. I sure as hell don't know anything about Cambodia. I can't predict the future. It is unfortunate that it happened, but that is their society. What is the alternative? An eternal American occupation? You seem intent on making excuses drawing on the most disparate of examples.

Muslim terrorism isn't just about the number of dead. You're making the fallacy again of comparing dead the bathtub slips, and neglecting that an intentioned act is far worse than accidental. I reckon that 9-11 and the response it provoked probably cost the US treasury 7-8 trillion, if you include both Iraq and Afghanistan operations. And we have spend all of this money infringing on civil liberties because there are Islamic terrorists out to cause deadly harm, we end up with Snowden. The costs of prevention should also be included, and they are substantial. The fact that Muslim terrorists display this level of depravity relative to their power, means that with increased power, they are capable and willing of inflicting immense harm.

now you are just making shit up in your head. There is no unintentional terror of populations and people that I am referring to.

Sorry the attacks of 9/11 having economic consequences means nothing specific to Islamic terrorism. So has so much other types of terrorism perpetrated by various groups across the globe. Again economic consequences don't make Islamic terrorism different from other terrorism.

And blaming Islamic terrorism for the invasion of Iraq is fucking stupid. That was a creation by Bush & Co. And if you forget, we were responsible for propping up Saddam for many years, not Islamic terrorism.

And now you are blaming Islamic terrorism for creating the entire tradition of US intelligence agencies wanting to spy on everyone? That's rich. They've always wanted to spy on everyone. The only people infringing on our civil liberties is ourselves.

Honestly I think you should see a therapist. You have attributed anything you can to Islamic terrorism to the point you are just being foolish. Islamic terrorism is just as evil as many other terrorist acts the world has seen. That is for sure. But it ends there.

 

[desura]

now you are just making shit up in your head. There is no unintentional terror of populations and people that I am referring to.

Sorry the attacks of 9/11 having economic consequences means nothing specific to Islamic terrorism. So has so much other types of terrorism perpetrated by various groups across the globe. Again economic consequences don't make Islamic terrorism different from other terrorism.

And blaming Islamic terrorism for the invasion of Iraq is fucking stupid. That was a creation by Bush & Co. And if you forget, we were responsible for propping up Saddam for many years, not Islamic terrorism.

And now you are blaming Islamic terrorism for creating the entire tradition of US intelligence agencies wanting to spy on everyone? That's rich. They've always wanted to spy on everyone. The only people infringing on our civil liberties is ourselves.

Honestly I think you should see a therapist. You have attributed anything you can to Islamic terrorism to the point you are just being foolish. Islamic terrorism is just as evil as many other terrorist acts the world has seen. That is for sure. But it ends there.

You sound like a 9-11 truther with that talk. Anyways, you sound like a typical campus leftist who thinks that they're being edgy.

 

[raildogg]

Holy shit that truck was going really fast.

Isn't it strange how a refugee could supposedly hijack a truck and drive such a large vehicle with extraordinary precision through a tight space that well? These guys are apparently very skilled, if one can use that word.

Man I tell ya - these ISIS guys are just remarkable.

 

[MrSquished]

You sound like a 9-11 truther with that talk. Anyways, you sound like a typical campus leftist who thinks that they're being edgy.

I sound like a 9/11 truther? LOL never been anything remotely close to that and nothing I said points to otherwise.

Dude you seriously have voices in your head.

 

[raildogg]

Bullshit. Nobody views anybody as noble savages. You are just hell bent on applying different rules to the same actions to suit your worldview. You think the murders, torturing and overall suppression of human rights OF ENTIRE NATIONS FOR YEARS AT A TIME under dictators we supported like Pinochet, the Shah and Hussein, for example, are more ok than the same actions by Muslim terrorists today because they don't hide behind government propaganda basically. But wait.

That's just a load of horseshit.

There is one main difference between the two. The dictators I mentioned and others like them terrorized their own nations internally. Modern extremist Islamic terrorists today don't have true states for the most part, but while they terrorize those under their control as well, like ISIS, they also target Westerners. They all killed, they all tortured, they all suppressed rights. But that's the only difference.

By using the logic of deduction, extremist Islamic terrorists are worse than other despots anywhere else in the non-Western world because now they are targeting Westerners. Western lives matter. The lives of millions under the control of Latino dictators or Middle Eastern dictators don't matter as much.

Personally I think they all matter, and while I prioritize the lives of my countrymen more than most, I don't rate the version of murder, terror, torture and oppression by where on the globe the victims live. It's all the same.

What matters is prioritizing our response to where we focus resources to deal with any of those type of forces. If the choice is to protect a life in another country versus protecting one here, I would like our resources to focus at home. But at the same time, the transgressions are the same by definition.

These guys are brainwashed by their own prejudices and external forces. There is a massive campaign underway to demonize Muslims and it is working very well.

Your so-called alt-right movement is a huge part anti-Muslim and anti-nonwhite people movement, for instance.

LOL - these guys call Obama Muslim all day long and their audiences go wild.

 

[raildogg]

I sometimes watch the aftermath of one of these events but I always feel like a POS when I do. For whatever reason I feel guilty and dirty when I do. I don't need to see a truck running down people to know more about this particular event. It really is a horrible story. This will probably ruin Christmas for the families of the victims for the rest of their lives.

What aftermath do you speak of? The grainy images the media shows you?

By the way, France immediately destroyed CCTV footage after the supposed Nice attacks.

 

[raildogg]

Christ you are a dumbass.

Terrorism has been around far longer than before the current West-Muslim conflict. Muslims dont do terrorism any different than other people. They are only doing it more right now because they are stuck in an asymmetrical conflict, where they cant stand up to other people and fight them conventionally.

People don't care about terrorism or loss of life of any of that sort.

It is only when a group of people they dislike do the bad thing that they are upset.

Bunch of hypocrites. But that can describe 99% of humans.

A person looking for truth will NEVER pick sides.

 

[desura]

I sound like a 9/11 truther? LOL never been anything remotely close to that and nothing I said points to otherwise.

Dude you seriously have voices in your head.

You act like Iraq and Afghanistan didn't happen because of 9-11? Bush came in wanting to recalibrate attention towards China. 9-11 was a surprise.

When you don't have an argument you resort to personal insults. I will not respond to anymore of your posts.

 

[MrSquished]

You act like Iraq and Afghanistan didn't happen because of 9-11? Bush came in wanting to recalibrate attention towards China. 9-11 was a surprise.

When you don't have an argument you resort to personal insults. I will not respond to anymore of your posts.

I said Iraq and only Iraq specifically because I do believe 9/11 and Afghanistan were very related. Iraq was a total fabrication partially using 9/11 as an excuse, along with other trumped up evidence. That's been proven, where the hell were you when that happened?

It's scary that you blame the Iraq war wholly on Islamic terrorism since it wasn't the case at all, and the more we blind ourselves with bullshit the less we can hold our government accountable and perhaps prevent similar events in the future that our government tries to do.

As far as now blaming Islamic Terrorism for spying on our citizens is folly. The US has a history of spying on its citizens, it's just getting easier to do more of it due to technology. We spied on ourselves when we were scared silly of communists and McCarthyism, on civil rights group members, on War dissenters for example.

The US will always have trials and tribulations coming at us from various foreign actors, it's how we react to them that will set us apart. Foolishly using them as excuses for certain things is simply dangerous.

 

[Jaskalas]

after the supposed Nice attacks.

Supposed?
I'm blowing a !@#$ing gasket here. Feeling quite a bit of rage against trutherism.
For you to try and take reality and knowledge and sabotage it so...

 

[agent00f]

Well, I can elaborate on what liberalism is about: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/25/us/chicago-shootings-gun-violence.html?_r=0 <insert Billy Bob continuing to laugh at you>

What I'm liking about 2017 so far is your failure continues to bring me entertainment. 2017 is going to be another great year in that respect haha

Pretty sure liberalism isn't about firearm proliferation, but thinking isn't your guys' strong suite. Stick to self-confident white power.

 

[chucky2]

Pretty sure liberalism isn't about firearm proliferation, but thinking isn't your guys' strong suite. Stick to self-confident white power.

Oh don't say that AgentFail! Just think how Dem Chicago is...a utopia! http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/01/us/chicago-murders-2016/

Boy, I wonder if the tarps should be like Democrat blue? lol

 

[werepossum]

We don't owe Muslims in foreign countries anything. There is no human right to emigrate to the USA or Europe. There is only really a human right to self-determination and self rule. The problem with Muslims could be solved very simply. Just give up Islam. Take up the religion and culture of the host countries. Islam is merely a set of doctrines and ideas and there is nothing inherent in a person which makes them destined to always follow it. I'm still kind of amazed how the terrorist violence hasn't caused a crisis of faith with more Muslims. With all that has occurred there should be more Muslims abandoning the faith, similar to how many Europeans have abandoned their religion following scandals. There is a profound lack of self-reflection among Muslims.

We certainly are entitled to screen potential immigrants for aberrant ideas, however we here define them.

What I do know is that many of the Muslim attacks over the past five years came from people who were modestly Muslim but who likely became more extremist over time as they lived here. Often their parents or the 1st generation is actually moderate, but the 2nd generation becomes more extremist. Nidal Hasan at Ft. Hood for example. Syed Farook. The Orlando shooter. The Chattanooga shooter. In those instances, simply a general Islamic identification ended up being the background factor which led them to become terrorists, and if they were not Muslim at all they likely would not have become terrorists.

Well said.

 

[werepossum]

This was the conversation:

fskimospy: "Yes I'm sure an immigration ban for Muslims followed by several decades of pretending not to see them is just what the doctor ordered for making Muslims like America more."

bshole: "It is working for Japan. When was the last time there an Islamic attack in Japan? Is Japan hated by the Middle East? It literally has NONE of the problems associated with engagement in the Middle East that the rest of Western civilization has."

Except there is no limit or ban on muslim immigration in Japan. No religious limits at all.

That was my point.

And sorry, but blaming, limiting or restricting all of a religion for a few extremists is like blaming all of Christianity for the KKK. It's absurd and a base violation of basic human rights.

Bigotry is bigotry, no matter your excuse. Blaming innocents for the actions of others based on nothing more than they share the same religion or national origin is just ignorant, no matter how you look at it.

Take it back a step further. Here is Desura's proposal:

My proposed solution is simple: we stop being involved with their affairs. We reduce contact as much as possible, and this includes immigration. Give it a cool-down period, then after twenty years or so we can increase contact again.​

Note "we reduce contact as much as possible, and this includes immigration." We don't have to ban immigration by Muslims specifically; a ban on immigration from Muslim nations would do it. As we've seen from the San Bernadino shooters, even from our most bestest Muslim pal, Saudi Arabia, we are unable to properly screen immigrants. The wife was active in anti-Western, pro-Jihad diatribes in public social media, yet we and our supposed pals missed those signs. We also see that those anti-Western, pro-Jihad views are extremely popular in ALL Muslim majority nations, as well as wide-spread neutrality to acceptance of "advancing" Islam via murdering non-Islamics. By the twin steps of placing a temporary ban on immigration from those nations AND reducing our involvement in the affairs of those nations, we both greatly reduce our exposure to new terrorists and lessen their reasons to hate us. It would not be a ban on Muslim immigration per se so we would still take any Muslims immigrating from Western nations, but those nations both have fewer Muslims to wish immigration to America and are much, much reliable partners in screening potential applicants.

 

[agent00f]

Oh don't say that AgentFail! Just think how Dem Chicago is...a utopia! http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/01/us/chicago-murders-2016/

Boy, I wonder if the tarps should be like Democrat blue? lol

Funny how easily your sort are cornered into trite shitposting.

 

[kage69]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omagh_bombing

"The bombing caused outrage both locally and internationally,[8][10] spurred on the Northern Ireland peace process,[3][4][11] and dealt a severe blow to the 'dissident' republican campaign. The Real IRA apologised and declared a ceasefire shortly after."

See the words "outraged" and "apologized" and "severe blow"?

Yeah everyone shoots their own foot at some point, but you're talking about a splinter group who broke ranks with the people I'm talking about, just so you know. I'm not sure remorse is the same as morality either. The example I gave involved a secret IRA prison where Brits and Irish alike were tortured and executed, then tossed into a bog. Operated for decades. Haven't heard anyone apologize for that.

Contrast that with this.

http://archive.adl.org/israel/israel_sbarro.html

They actually recreated the terrorist bombing as a museum exhibit, glorifying it that way. And no one stopped them.

Messed up for sure, but that sounds more like sick pride mixed with nationalist fervor rather than a lack of all morality. I'd say people without a nation living under apartheid can act pretty immorally when their backs are to the wall.

It's probably pointless trying to sift through these kinds of groups, looking for the most morally sound, when they're all nuts who think it's ok to murder your own countrymen as the correct invisible sky fairy is cool with it.

 

[desura]

Yeah everyone shoots their own foot at some point, but you're talking about a splinter group who broke ranks with the people I'm talking about, just so you know. I'm not sure remorse is the same as morality either. The example I gave involved a secret IRA prison where Brits and Irish alike were tortured and executed, then tossed into a bog. Operated for decades. Haven't heard anyone apologize for that.



Messed up for sure, but that sounds more like sick pride mixed with nationalist fervor rather than a lack of all morality. I'd say people without a nation living under apartheid can act pretty immorally when their backs are to the wall.

It's probably pointless trying to sift through these kinds of groups, looking for the most morally sound, when they're all nuts who think it's ok to murder your own countrymen as the correct invisible sky fairy is cool with it.

The Irish have been under British domination for far longer than the Palestinians aremunder Israeli. Far, far longer.

I don't think you absorbed the comparison or point at all, before falling back on the excuse of suffering. Suffering exists everywhere, but not all of the suffering peoples of the world go out and bomb pizza shops. It takes nationalism and religious intensity to commit such horrific acts of violence, and then celebrate it.

The point is that the Christian Irish could be shamed by such acts of immorality, while the Muslim Palestinians are not shamed by violent depravity but rather celebrate it.