Benefits of the U.S. leaving the U.N.?

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Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
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Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
Originally posted by: sandorski

Yes, without that venue war likely would have happened. The Soviet Union had no choice but to back down as the whole World saw what usually goes on behind closed doors. International pressure caused the Soviet Union to back down, International Pressure existed because the UN exposed the Soviets to the eye of the International Community. You have no clue what the UN is, it seems, the UN has limited Power to do things, yet it makes a huge difference in International Affairs.

the reason the soviets backed down had nothing to do with the UN. they backed down BECAUSE WE DID NOT. if the blockade had not been in place, if the US had not directly confronted the USSR with a show of strength, it would have turned out VERY different.


the UN is a farce without the uS to be it' strength.

besides you never answered the question "can you name one lasting change the UN has accomplished without britain or the US being the backbone?" in the cuban missile crisis it was all the US.

and since we are on that subject here is the famous quote by a. stevenson that i find very fitting... ;)

"I am prepared to wait for my answer until hell freezes over, if that's your decision."


The USSR backed down because it could. We made concessions in Turkey, and had an agreement with the Soviets to keep mum. It was a quid pro quo. The pressure on Kruschev to launch was just as great as it was on Kennedy. Make no mistake, the 'invincible' US wasn't. Neither were they. Fortunately the US and the USSR had a forum and establish channels to avert a crisis without some loon insisting that we have a blockade and die defending it.

The value of the UN is that it provides an existing and ongoing line of dialogue. It is not, and was never intended to be a military organization, although it has acted in a limited capacity. It offers a chance to keep up with what is happening in the rest of the world. What can be done and learned at the UN by people who understand how things work provide more intel and perspective on the workings of governments that all the Agencies we have. Removing ourselves might be satisfying to the stupid, but the UN is a useful tool, and that is why Presidents both conservative and liberal have never left. They weren't that stupid. You are looking at things from a solely military standpoint. Military solutions suck. They are the last thing to use, not the first.

 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
0
0
Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
Originally posted by: sandorski

Yes, without that venue war likely would have happened. The Soviet Union had no choice but to back down as the whole World saw what usually goes on behind closed doors. International pressure caused the Soviet Union to back down, International Pressure existed because the UN exposed the Soviets to the eye of the International Community. You have no clue what the UN is, it seems, the UN has limited Power to do things, yet it makes a huge difference in International Affairs.

the reason the soviets backed down had nothing to do with the UN. they backed down BECAUSE WE DID NOT. if the blockade had not been in place, if the US had not directly confronted the USSR with a show of strength, it would have turned out VERY different.


the UN is a farce without the uS to be it' strength.

besides you never answered the question "can you name one lasting change the UN has accomplished without britain or the US being the backbone?" in the cuban missile crisis it was all the US.

and since we are on that subject here is the famous quote by a. stevenson that i find very fitting... ;)

"I am prepared to wait for my answer until hell freezes over, if that's your decision."

Heh, since you bring up A. Stevenson's quote, maybe you can tell us where he said that and where he showed the world that USSR's claim of not having missile in Cuba was BS.

For those uninformed and too lazy to do their own research, here is a list of UN accomplishment, with or without US/GB involvment:

The United Nations was established in the aftermath of a devastating war to help stabilize international relations and give peace a more secure foundation.
Amid the threat of nuclear war and seemingly endless regional conflicts, peace-keeping has become an overriding concern of the United Nations. In the process, the activities of blue-helmeted peace-keepers have emerged as the most visible role associated with the world organization.

The United Nations, however, is much more than a peace-keeper and forum for conflict resolution. Often without attracting attention, the United Nations and its family of agencies are engaged in a vast array of work that touches every aspect of people's lives around the world.

Child survival and development. Environmental protection. Human rights. Health and medical research. Alleviation of poverty and economic development. Agricultural development and fisheries. Education. Family planning. Emergency and disaster relief. Air and sea travel. Peaceful uses of atomic energy. Labour and workers' rights. The list goes on. Here, in brief, is a sampling of what the United Nations organizations have accomplished since 1945 when the world organization was founded.

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Maintaining peace and security - By having deployed a total of 42 peace-keeping forces and observer missions as of September 1996, the United Nations has been able to restore calm to allow the negotiating process to go forward while saving millions of people from becoming casualties of conflicts. There are presently 16 active peace-keeping forces in operation.

Making peace - Since 1945, the United Nations has been credited with negotiating 172 peaceful settlements that have ended regional conflicts. Recent cases include an end to the Iran-Iraq war, the withdrawal of Soviet troops from Afghanistan, and an end to the civil war in El Salvador. The United Nations has used quiet diplomacy to avert imminent wars.

Promoting democracy - The United Nations has enabled people in over 45 countries to participate in free and fair elections, including those held in Cambodia, Namibia, El Salvador, Eritrea, Mozambique, Nicaragua and South Africa. It has provided electoral advice, assistance, and monitoring of results.

Promoting development - The UN system has devoted more attention and resources to the promotion of the development of human skills and potentials than any other external assistance effort. The system's annual disbursements, including loans and grants, amount to more than $10 billion. The UN Development Programme (UNDP), in close cooperation with over 170 Member States and other UN agencies, designs and implements projects for agriculture, industry, education, and the environment. It supports more than 5,000 projects with a budget of $1.3 billion. It is the largest multilateral source of grant development assistance. The World Bank, at the forefront in mobilizing support for developing countries worldwide, has alone loaned $333 billion for development projects since 1946. In addition, UNICEF spends more than $800 million a year, primarily on immunization, health care, nutrition and basic education in 138 countries.

Promoting human rights - Since adopting the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in 1948, the United Nations has helped enact dozens of comprehensive agreements on political, civil, economic, social and cultural rights. By investigating individual complaints of human rights abuses, the UN Human Rights Commission has focused world attention on cases of torture, disappearance, and arbitrary detention and has generated international pressure to be brought on governments to improve their human rights records.

Protecting the environment - The United Nations has played a vital role in fashioning a global programme designed to protect the environment. The "Earth Summit," the UN Conference on Environment and Development held in Rio de Janeiro in 1992, resulted in treaties on biodiversity and climate change, and all countries adopted "Agenda 21" - a blueprint to promote sustainable development or the concept of economic growth while protecting natural resources.

Preventing nuclear proliferation - The United Nations, through the International Atomic Energy Agency, has helped minimize the threat of a nuclear war by inspecting nuclear reactors in 90 countries to ensure that nuclear materials are not diverted for military purposes.

Promoting self determination and independence - The United Nations has played a role in bringing about independence in countries that are now among its Member States.

Strengthening international law - Over 300 international treaties, on topics as varied as human rights conventions to agreements on the use of outer space and seabed, have been enacted through the efforts of the United Nations.

Handing down judicial settlements of major international disputes - By giving judgments and advisory opinions, the International Court of Justice has helped settle international disputes involving territorial issues, non-interference in the internal affairs of States, diplomatic relations, hostage-taking, the right of asylum, rights of passage and economic rights.

Ending apartheid in South Africa - By imposing measures ranging from an arms embargo to a convention against segregated sporting events, the United Nations was a major factor in bringing about the downfall of the apartheid system, which the General Assembly called "a crime against humanity." Elections were held in April 1994 in which all South Africans were allowed to participate on an equal basis, followed by the establishment of a majority government.

Providing humanitarian aid to victims of conflict - More than 30 million refugees fleeing war, famine or persecution have received aid from the UN High Commissioner for Refugees since 1951 in a continuing effort coordinated by the United Nations that often involves other agencies. There are more than 19 million refugees, mostly women and children, who are receiving food, shelter, medical aid, education and repatriation assistance.

Aiding Palestinian refugees - Since 1950, the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) has sustained four generations of Palestinians with free schooling, essential health care, relief assistance and key social services virtually without interruption. There are 2.9 million refugees in the Middle East served by UNRWA.

Alleviating chronic hunger and rural poverty in developing countries - The International Fund for Agricultural Development (IFAD) has developed a system of providing credit, often in very small amounts, for the poorest and most marginalised groups that has benefited over 230 million people in nearly 100 developing countries.

Focusing on African development - For the United Nations, Africa continues to be the highest priority. In 1986, the United Nations convened a special session to drum up international support for African economic recovery and development. The United Nations also has instituted a system-wide task force to ensure that commitments made by the international community are honoured and challenges met. The Africa Project Development Facility has helped entrepreneurs in 25 countries to find financing for new enterprises. The Facility has completed 130 projects which represent investments of $233 million and the creation of 13,000 new jobs. It is expected that these new enterprises will either earn or save some $131 million in foreign exchange annually.

Promoting women's rights - A long term objective of the United Nations has been to improve the lives of women and to empower women to have greater control over their lives. Several conferences during the UN-sponsored International Women's Decade set an agenda for the advancement of women and women's rights for the rest of the century. The UN Development Fund for Women (UNIFEM) and the International Research and Training Institute for the Advancement of Women (INSTRAW) have supported programmes and projects to improve the quality of life for women in over 100 countries. They include credit and training, access to new food-production technologies and marketing opportunities, and other means of promoting women's work.

Providing safe drinking water - UN agencies have worked to make safe drinking water available to 1.3 billion people in rural areas during the last decade.

Eradicating smallpox - A 13-year effort by the World Health Organization resulted in the complete eradication of smallpox from the planet in 1980. The eradication has saved an estimated $1 billion a year in vaccination and monitoring, almost three times the cost of eliminating the scourge itself. WHO also helped wipe out polio from the Western hemisphere, with global eradication expected by the year 2000.

Pressing for universal immunization - Polio, tetanus, measles, whooping cough, diphtheria and tuberculosis still kill more than eight million children each year. In 1974, only 5 per cent of children in developing countries were immunized against these diseases. Today, as a result of the efforts of UNICEF and WHO, there is an 80 per cent immunization rate, saving the lives of more than 3 million childrean each year.

Reducing child mortality rates - Through oral rehydration therapy, water and sanitation and other health and nutrition measures undertaken by UN agencies, child mortality rates in the developing countries have been halved since 1960, increasing the life expectancy from 37 to 67 years.

Fighting parasitic diseases - Efforts by UN agencies in North Africa to eliminate the dreaded screw worm, a parasite that feeds on human and animal flesh, prevented the spread of the parasite, which is carried by flies, to Egypt, Tunisia, sub-Saharan Africa and Europe. A WHO programme also has saved the lives of 7 million children from going blind from the river blindness and rescued many others from guinea worm and other tropical diseases.

Promoting investment in developing countries - The United Nations, through the efforts of the UN Industrial Development Organization (UNIDO), has served as a "match-maker" for North-South, South-South and East-West investment, promoting entrepreneurship and self-reliance, industrial cooperation and technology transfer and cost-effective, ecologically-sensitive industry.

Orienting economic policy toward social need - Many UN agencies have emphasized the need to take account of human needs in determining economic adjustment and restructuring policies and programmes, including measures to safeguard the poor, especially in areas of health and education, and "debt swaps for children."

Reducing the effects of natural disasters - The World Meteorological Organization (WMO) has spared millions of people from the calamitous effects of both natural and man-made disasters. Its early warning system, which utilizes thousands of surface monitors as well as satellites, has provided information for the dispersal of oil spills and has predicted long-term droughts. The system has allowed for the efficient distribution of food aid to drought regions, such as southern Africa in 1992.

Providing food to victims of emergencies - Over two million tons of food are distributed each year by the World Food Programme (WFP). Nearly 30 million people facing acute food shortages in 36 countries benefited from this assistance in 1994.

Clearing land mines - The United Nations is leading an international effort to clear land mines from former battlefields in Afghanistan, Angola, Cambodia, El Salvador, Mozambique, Rwanda and Somalia that still kill and maim thousands of innocent people every year.

Protecting the ozone layer - The UN Environment Programme (UNEP) and the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) have been instrumental in highlighting the damage caused to the earth's ozone layer. As a result of a treaty, known as the Montreal Protocol, there has been a global effort to reduce chemical emissions of substances that have caused the depletion of the ozone layer. The effort will spare millions of people from the increased risk of contracting cancer due to additional exposure to ultraviolet radiation.

Curbing global warming - Through the Global Environment Facility, countries have contributed substantial resources to curb conditions that cause global warming. Increasing emissions from burning fossil fuels and changes in land use patterns have led to a build-up of gases in the atmosphere, which experts believe can lead to a warming of the Earth's temperature.

Preventing over-fishing - The Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) monitors marine fishery production and issues alerts to prevent damage due to over-fishing.

Limiting deforestation and promoting sustainable forestry development - FAO, UNDP and the World Bank, through a Tropical Forests Action Programme, have formulated and carried out forestry action plans in 90 countries.

Cleaning up pollution - UNEP led a major effort to clean up the Mediterranean Sea. It encouraged adversaries such as Syria and Israel, Turkey and Greece to work together to clean up beaches. As a result, more than 50 per cent of the previously polluted beaches are now usable.

Protecting consumers' health - To ensure the safety of food sold in the market place, UN agencies have established standards for over 200 food commodities and safety limits for more than 3,000 food containers.

Reducing fertility rates - The UN Population Fund (UNFPA), through its family planning programmes, has enabled people to make informed choices, and consequently given families, and especially women, greater control over their lives. As a result, women in devloping countries are having fewer children - from six births per woman in the 1960s to 3.5 today. In the 1960s, only 10 per cent of the world's families were using effective methods of family planning. The number now stands at 55 per cent.

Fighting drug abuse - The UN International Drug Control Programme (UNDCP) has worked to reduce demand for illicit drugs, suppress drug trafficking, and has helped farmers to reduce their economic reliance on growing narcotic crops by shifting farm production toward other dependable sources of income.

Improving global trade relations - The UN Conference on Trade and Development (UNCTAD) has worked to obtain special trade preferences for developing countries to export their products to developed countries. It has also negotiated international commodities agreements to ensure fair prices for developing countries. And through the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT), which has now been supplanted by the World Trade Organization (WTO), the United Nations has supported trade liberalization, that will increase economic development opportunities in developing countries.

Promoting economic reform - Together with the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund, the United Nations has helped many countries improve their economic management, offered training for government finance officials, and provided financial assistance to countries experiencing temporary balance of payment difficulties.

Promoting worker rights - The International Labour Organization (ILO) has worked to guarantee freedom of the right to association, the right to organize, collective bargaining, the rights of indigenous and tribal peoples, promote employment and equal remuneration and has sought to eliminate discrimination and child labour. And by setting safety standards, ILO has helped reduce the toll of work-related accidents.

Introducing improved agricultural techniques and reducing costs - With assistance from the Food and Agricultural Organization (FAO) that has resulted in improved crop yields, Asian rice farmers have saved $12 million on pesticides and governments over $150 million a year in pesticide subsidies.

Promoting stability and order in the world's oceans - Through three international conferences, the third lasting more than nine years, the United Nations has spearheaded an international effort to promote a comprehensive global agreement for the protection, preservation and peaceful development of the oceans. The UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, which came into force in 1994, lays down rules for the determination of national maritime jurisdiction, navigation on the high seas, rights and duties of coastal and other states, obligation to protect and preserve the marine environment, cooperation in the conduct of marine scientific research and preservation of living resources.

Improving air and sea travel - UN agencies have been responsible for setting safety standards for sea and air travel. The efforts of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) have contributed to making air travel the safest mode of transportation. To wit: In 1947, when nine million travelled, 590 were killed in aircraft accidents; in 1993 the number of deaths was 936 out of the 1.2 billion airline passengers. Over the last two decades, pollution from tankers has been reduced by as much as 60 per cent thanks to the work of the International Maritime Organization (IMO).

Protecting intellectual property - The World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO) provides protection for new inventions and maintains a register of nearly 3 million national trademarks. Through treaties, it also protects the works of artists, composers and authors world-wide. WIPO's work makes it easier and less costly for individuals and enterprises to enforce their property rights. It also broadens the opportunity to distribute new ideas and products without relinquishing control over the property rights.

Promoting the free flow of information - To allow all people to obtain information that is free of censorship and culturally unbiased, UNESCO has provided aid to develop and strengthen communication systems, established news agencies and supported an independent press.

Improving global communications - The Universal Postal Union (UPU) has maintained and regulated international mail delivery. The International Telecommunications Union (ITU) has coordinated use of the radio spectrum, promoted cooperation in assigning positions for stationary satellites, and established international standards for communications, thereby ensuring the unfeterred flow of information around the globe.

Empowering the voiceless - UN-sponsored international years and conferences have caused governments to recognize the needs and contributions of groups usually excluded from decision-making, such as the aging, children, youth, homeless, indigenous and disabled people.

Establishing "children as a zone of peace" - From El Salvador to Lebanon, Sudan to former Yugoslavia, UNICEF pioneered the establishment of "Days of Tranquillity" and the opening of "Corridors of Peace" to provide vaccines and other assistance desperately needed by children caught in armed conflict.

Generating worldwide commitment in support of the needs of children - Through UNICEF's efforts, the Convention on the Rights of the Child entered into force as international law in 1990 and has become law in 166 countries by the end of September 1994; following the 1990 World Summit for Children convened by UNICEF, more than 150 governments have committed to reaching over 20 specific measurable goals to radically improve children's lives by the year 2000.

Improving education in developing countries - As a direct result of the efforts of UN agencies, over 60 per cent of adults in developing countries can now read and write, and 90 per cent of children in these countries attend school.

Improving literacy for women - Programmes aimed at promoting education and advancement for women helped raise the female literacy rate in developing countries from 36 per cent in 1970 to 56 per cent in 1990.

Safeguarding and preserving historic cultural and architectural sites - Ancient monuments in 81 countries including Greece, Egypt, Italy, Indonesia and Cambodia, have been protected through the efforts of UNESCO, and international conventions have been adopted to preserve cultural property.

Facilitating academic and cultural exchanges - The United Nations, through UNESCO and the United Nations University (UNU), have encouraged scholarly and scientific cooperation, networking of institutions and promotion of cultural expressions, including those of minorities and indigenous people.


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The Nobel Peace Prize
The Nobel Peace Prize has been awarded five times to the United Nations and its organizations

1954
Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, Geneva, for its assistance to refugees

1965
United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF), for its work in helping save lives of the world's children

1969
International Labour Organisation (ILO), Geneva, for its progress in establishing workers' rights and protections

1981
Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, Geneva, for its assistance to Asian refugees

1988
United Nations Peace-keeping Forces, for its peace-keeping operations

The Prize was also awarded to:

1945
Cordell Hull, U.S., ex-Secretary of State, for his leadership in establishing the UN

1949
Lord John Boyd Orr, United Kingdom, first Director-General of the Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO)

1950
Ralph Bunche, U.S., UN Mediator in Palestine (1948), for his leadership in the armistice agreements signed in 1949 by Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria

1957
Lester Pearson, Canada, ex-Secretary of State, President, 7th Session of the UN General Assembly, for a lifetime of work for peace and for leading UN efforts to resolve the Suez Canal crisis

1961
Dag Hammarskjöld, Sweden, Secretary-General of the UN, for his work in helping settle the Congo crisis

1974
Sean MacBride, Ireland, UN Commissioner for Namibia Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, Geneva, for its assistance to European refugees
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,805
6,361
126
Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
Originally posted by: sandorski

Yes, without that venue war likely would have happened. The Soviet Union had no choice but to back down as the whole World saw what usually goes on behind closed doors. International pressure caused the Soviet Union to back down, International Pressure existed because the UN exposed the Soviets to the eye of the International Community. You have no clue what the UN is, it seems, the UN has limited Power to do things, yet it makes a huge difference in International Affairs.

the reason the soviets backed down had nothing to do with the UN. they backed down BECAUSE WE DID NOT. if the blockade had not been in place, if the US had not directly confronted the USSR with a show of strength, it would have turned out VERY different.


the UN is a farce without the uS to be it' strength.

besides you never answered the question "can you name one lasting change the UN has accomplished without britain or the US being the backbone?" in the cuban missile crisis it was all the US.

and since we are on that subject here is the famous quote by a. stevenson that i find very fitting... ;)

"I am prepared to wait for my answer until hell freezes over, if that's your decision."

Yup, no problem

quote from link
------------------

5. Who contributes personnel?

The United Nations Charter stipulates that to assist in maintaining peace and security around the world, all Member States of the UN should make available to the Security Council necessary armed forces and facilities. Since 1948, close to 130 nations have contributed military and civilian police personnel to peace operations.

As of 31 December 2003, 94 countries were contributing a total of some 45,472 personnel, including 39,329 troops, 4,632 civilian police and 1,771 military observers. As of 31 December 2003, the five main troop-contributing countries were Pakistan (6,248), Bangladesh (4,730), Nigeria (3361), India (2,882) and Ghana (2,306).

Of the 45,472 troops and civilian police serving in UN peace operations, only 5,200 come from the European Union and only 518 from the United States (494 civilian police and 22 military observers).

Although 94 Member States contribute to current UN peacekeeping operations, the greatest burden in the form of troops is borne by a core group of developing countries. Noting a hesitancy on the part of developed countries to commit their troops to UN peacekeeping missions, in March 2003 the UN senior peacekeeper, Jean-Marie Guéhenno, Under-Secretary-General for Peacekeeping Operations, reminded Member States that ?the provision of well-equipped, well-trained and disciplined military and police personnel to UN peacekeeping operations is a collective responsibility of Member States. Countries from the South should not and must not be expected to shoulder this burden alone?.
------------------------------------

Other interesting links:

Snapshot of UN accomplishments

UN Peacekeeping Success stories

Surely France hasn't done anything....

quote from link
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To this should be added 416 million francs ($69.3 million) of contributions to peacekeeping operations. The previous year, 1997, France's share was 7.96% of the total, i.e. 472 million francs ($80.6 million). These costs are lower since some of the peacekeeping operations have ended or been considerably reduced in scale, in particular in former Yugoslavia. On 31 May 1998, France was the ninth largest contributor of troops and equipment and the largest amongst countries with a permanent seat on the Security Council.
-----------------------

Germans drinking beer and eating bratwurst at home...

quote from link
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# Currently (end of April 2001) Germany is directly participating in 7 of the 18 ongoing UN missions/UN-mandated missions (UNIKOM/Iraq, UNMIBH/ Bosnia and Herzegovina, UNMIK/Kosovo, UNTAET/East Timor, UNOMIG/ Georgia and also SFOR/Bosnia and Herzegovina and KFOR/ Kosovo), contributing some 7300 troops and 450 police officers and civilian specialists. Hence also in terms of personnel Germany is one of the biggest contributors to UN operations.
------------------

Would the last US citizen that leaves home please turn out the light?....

quote from link
---------------------------
Of the 45,145 UN peacekeepers stationed around the world, only 704 are American. But the current dispute over the Bosnia mission brings to question, what role the US?s withdrawal plays in the future of UN peacekeeping.
-------------------------------
 

Shad0hawK

Banned
May 26, 2003
1,456
0
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Originally posted by: rchiu

Heh, since you bring up A. Stevenson's quote, maybe you can tell us where he said that and where he showed the world that USSR's claim of not having missile in Cuba was BS.

he did it at the UN..duh! that is not the issue, the UN did not stop the USSR, the US did. it is well known the UN is a great debate society, i do not dispute that..in fact i point it out quite often.

Originally posted by: rchiu
For those uninformed and too lazy to do their own research, here is a list of UN accomplishment, with or without US/GB involvment:

i am real glad you said that then copied and pasted directly from some website and the question STILL is not answered! show me the proof, you can try and turn it around by suggesting i am "to lazy to do research" in a sophomoric attempt to deflect the burden of proof, but i am not buying it...especially from that copy and paste job that by your own admission does not differentiate what had US/GB support and what does not.

did you not understand the question? it is not that complicated, after all i am asking for ONE example...

here it is yet again...

"can you name one lasting change the UN has accomplished without britain or the US being the backbone?"

and here is that quote again.

"I am prepared to wait for my answer until hell freezes over, if that's your decision."

 

Shad0hawK

Banned
May 26, 2003
1,456
0
0
sandorski, that still does not answer the question. there is nothing in there showing anything the UN has done without the majority of manpower or money coming from the US or GB(aka BACKBONE)

plus many of the suppossed "success stories" were/are not that sucessful or lasting.

again... i am asking for ONE example of the UN actually accomplishing anything with LASTING success that was not brought about by GB/US manpower or money.


is it so hard to give ONE example?

 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,805
6,361
126
Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
sandorski, that still does not answer the question. there is nothing in there showing anything the UN has done without the majority of manpower or money coming from the US or GB(aka BACKBONE)

plus many of the suppossed "success stories" were/are not that sucessful or lasting.

again... i am asking for ONE example of the UN actually accomplishing anything with LASTING success that was not brought about by GB/US manpower or money.


is it so hard to give ONE example?

What? You want me to hold your hand while we travel around the world to see for yourself? Why don't you provide proof of your assertion then?
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
0
0
Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
Originally posted by: rchiu

Heh, since you bring up A. Stevenson's quote, maybe you can tell us where he said that and where he showed the world that USSR's claim of not having missile in Cuba was BS.

he did it at the UN..duh! that is not the issue, the UN did not stop the USSR, the US did. it is well known the UN is a great debate society, i do not dispute that..in fact i point it out quite often.

Originally posted by: rchiu
For those uninformed and too lazy to do their own research, here is a list of UN accomplishment, with or without US/GB involvment:

i am real glad you said that then copied and pasted directly from some website and the question STILL is not answered! show me the proof, you can try and turn it around by suggesting i am "to lazy to do research" in a sophomoric attempt to deflect the burden of proof, but i am not buying it...especially from that copy and paste job that by your own admission does not differentiate what had US/GB support and what does not.

did you not understand the question? it is not that complicated, after all i am asking for ONE example...

here it is yet again...

"can you name one lasting change the UN has accomplished without britain or the US being the backbone?"

and here is that quote again.

"I am prepared to wait for my answer until hell freezes over, if that's your decision."

What proof do you want?

I mean UN as an organization has been awarded Nobel Peace Prize 5 times, where a committee decided that in those 5 year, UN has "done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies, and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses." (Direct quote from Nobel's definition of peace prize)

Any of those accomplishment above has lasting changes to the people involved and to the world. You think the improved education standard in a 3rd world country is not going to have lasting change to the people in that country, the country, the region around the country and the world?

What UN does may not make a "lasting changes" to the little world you live in, but just because you never get out of the little world you live in and open your eyes, it doesn't mean UN is not making lasting changes to the world.
 

Shad0hawK

Banned
May 26, 2003
1,456
0
0
Originally posted by: sandorski

What? You want me to hold your hand while we travel around the world to see for yourself? Why don't you provide proof of your assertion then?


is that your own special way of admitting you cannot answer the question?

 

Shad0hawK

Banned
May 26, 2003
1,456
0
0
Originally posted by: rchiu

What proof do you want?

I mean UN as an organization has been awarded Nobel Peace Prize 5 times, where a committee decided that in those 5 year, UN has "done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies, and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses." (Direct quote from Nobel's definition of peace prize)

Any of those accomplishment above has lasting changes to the people involved and to the world. You think the improved education standard in a 3rd world country is not going to have lasting change to the people in that country, the country, the region around the country and the world?

What UN does may not make a "lasting changes" to the little world you live in, but just because you never get out of the little world you live in and open your eyes, it doesn't mean UN is not making lasting changes to the world.


what do i want? how about an actual real life EXAMPLE that i asked for in a very simple question. if the UN is "so" great and accomplished "so" much, why is it so hard for just ONE example to be provided?



 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,805
6,361
126
Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
Originally posted by: sandorski

What? You want me to hold your hand while we travel around the world to see for yourself? Why don't you provide proof of your assertion then?


is that your own special way of admitting you cannot answer the question?

No, that's my way of saying that you won't accept an answer.
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
0
0
Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
Originally posted by: rchiu

What proof do you want?

I mean UN as an organization has been awarded Nobel Peace Prize 5 times, where a committee decided that in those 5 year, UN has "done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies, and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses." (Direct quote from Nobel's definition of peace prize)

Any of those accomplishment above has lasting changes to the people involved and to the world. You think the improved education standard in a 3rd world country is not going to have lasting change to the people in that country, the country, the region around the country and the world?

What UN does may not make a "lasting changes" to the little world you live in, but just because you never get out of the little world you live in and open your eyes, it doesn't mean UN is not making lasting changes to the world.


what do i want? how about an actual real life EXAMPLE that i asked for in a very simple question. if the UN is "so" great and accomplished "so" much, why is it so hard for just ONE example to be provided?

One example? Nobel peace prize committee picked UN on 5 different occasion to recognize their contribution to the world, any one of accomplishment had significant and lasting impact, without American/British directing the operations. The problem here is you just don't wanna recognize their accomplishment, and hey if you choose to cover your ear and go lah lah lah, hey just go ahead and knock yourself out.
 

Shad0hawK

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May 26, 2003
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Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
Originally posted by: rchiu

What proof do you want?

I mean UN as an organization has been awarded Nobel Peace Prize 5 times, where a committee decided that in those 5 year, UN has "done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies, and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses." (Direct quote from Nobel's definition of peace prize)

Any of those accomplishment above has lasting changes to the people involved and to the world. You think the improved education standard in a 3rd world country is not going to have lasting change to the people in that country, the country, the region around the country and the world?

What UN does may not make a "lasting changes" to the little world you live in, but just because you never get out of the little world you live in and open your eyes, it doesn't mean UN is not making lasting changes to the world.


what do i want? how about an actual real life EXAMPLE that i asked for in a very simple question. if the UN is "so" great and accomplished "so" much, why is it so hard for just ONE example to be provided?

One example? Nobel peace prize committee picked UN on 5 different occasion to recognize their contribution to the world, any one of accomplishment had significant and lasting impact, without American/British directing the operations. The problem here is you just don't wanna recognize their accomplishment, and hey if you choose to cover your ear and go lah lah lah, hey just go ahead and knock yourself out.

your still not getting it...still trying to spin. you have jr. high school level sarcasm down pat, but this is not jr high school kid.

give me an example of where the UN ( by "example" i mean "proof of a particular instance") has made a lasting change for the better without the US/GB being the backbone of the effect.

i do not give a @#$% about who got a nobel prize, or what some committee says. that does not fit the parameters of the question, ARAFAT got a nobel peace price without never really doing anything! your basically saying since the nobel "people" say theya re great they are great. that is someones opinion and not what i am asking for.

name the PLACE..name WHEN... and WHAT they DID. and show that the US/GB were not the primary movers behind it.

that is what an "example" is! not what some committee says.




 

Shad0hawK

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May 26, 2003
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Originally posted by: sandorski
No, that's my way of saying that you won't accept an answer.

of course i am not accepting it! ROFL!!! it did not answer the question. your answer was a flood of links that were totally irrelevant.



 

rchiu

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Jun 8, 2002
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Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
Originally posted by: sandorski
No, that's my way of saying that you won't accept an answer.

of course i am not accepting it! ROFL!!! it did not answer the question. your answer was a flood of links that were totally irrelevant.

Oh I see, so we are suppose to provide you with an example UN contribution that YOU ACCEPT is long lasting and significant. I mean people is suppose to take for example, Nobel peace prize evaluation committee's opinion over yours. OK, I admit, that's impossible, yeah go ahead and glow in your little world thinking in your own mind that UN is irrelevant.
 

Shad0hawK

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May 26, 2003
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Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
Originally posted by: sandorski
No, that's my way of saying that you won't accept an answer.

of course i am not accepting it! ROFL!!! it did not answer the question. your answer was a flood of links that were totally irrelevant.

Oh I see, so we are suppose to provide you with an example UN contribution that YOU ACCEPT is long lasting and significant. I mean people is suppose to take for example, Nobel peace prize evaluation committee's opinion over yours. OK, I admit, that's impossible, yeah go ahead and glow in your little world thinking in your own mind that UN is irrelevant.

it is not my fault no one can actually provide ONE example. if that pisses you off all i can say is you will get over it soon...if not, then it is not my problem socialism sucks even(or should i say especially) on a global scale and some people are too stupid to know/admit it.

so far no one has provided a single instance of the UN making a lasting difference without the US or GB being the primary catalyst. that i all i asked for...considering how great the UN is you would think it would be easy!

just one example...

 

rchiu

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Jun 8, 2002
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Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
Originally posted by: sandorski
No, that's my way of saying that you won't accept an answer.

of course i am not accepting it! ROFL!!! it did not answer the question. your answer was a flood of links that were totally irrelevant.

Oh I see, so we are suppose to provide you with an example UN contribution that YOU ACCEPT is long lasting and significant. I mean people is suppose to take for example, Nobel peace prize evaluation committee's opinion over yours. OK, I admit, that's impossible, yeah go ahead and glow in your little world thinking in your own mind that UN is irrelevant.

it is not my fault no one can actually provide ONE example. if that pisses you off all i can say is you will get over it soon...if not, then it is not my problem socialism sucks even(or should i say especially) on a global scale and some people are too stupid to know/admit it.

so far no one has provided a single instance of the UN making a lasting difference without the US or GB being the primary catalyst. that i all i asked for...considering how great the UN is you would think it would be easy!

just one example...

We have posted pages of examples of UN making lasting difference without the US or GB being the primary catalyst. The refugee high commissioner helping many refugees, the UNICEF for helping world's children, the ILO for helping workers right around the world all of which received recognition from the Nobel Peace Prize committee. The various organizations like World Bank/IMF helping the financial crisis, the various peace-keeping mission, many didn't made the headlines in the US....

You are the one not acknowledging UN's accomplishment because of your political stand. And don't worry, I never get pissed off by the likes of you. Just pity for your closed mindedness.
 

Shad0hawK

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May 26, 2003
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Originally posted by: rchiu

We have posted pages of examples of UN making lasting difference without the US or GB being the primary catalyst. The refugee high commissioner helping many refugees, the UNICEF for helping world's children, the ILO for helping workers right around the world all of which received recognition from the Nobel Peace Prize committee. The various organizations like World Bank/IMF helping the financial crisis, the various peace-keeping mission, many didn't made the headlines in the US....

You are the one not acknowledging UN's accomplishment because of your political stand. And don't worry, I never get pissed off by the likes of you. Just pity for your closed mindedness.


actually no you did not, none of that showed who did what, where, or financed what. it was pages and pages of irrelevance that had nothing to do with the specific question i asked. you're simply trying to disguise the fact you cannot give one simple answer to one simple question.[i/]
 

thraxes

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Nov 4, 2000
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Originally posted by: Shad0hawK

your still not getting it...still trying to spin. you have jr. high school level sarcasm down pat, but this is not jr high school kid.

give me an example of where the UN ( by "example" i mean "proof of a particular instance") has made a lasting change for the better without the US/GB being the backbone of the effect.

i do not give a @#$% about who got a nobel prize, or what some committee says. that does not fit the parameters of the question, ARAFAT got a nobel peace price without never really doing anything! your basically saying since the nobel "people" say theya re great they are great. that is someones opinion and not what i am asking for.

name the PLACE..name WHEN... and WHAT they DID. and show that the US/GB were not the primary movers behind it.

that is what an "example" is! not what some committee says.

Allright, I understand the question that you ask and before I answer (hopefully to your satisfaction), please note that the primary movers are almost certainly going to include the US and UK for one simple reason: A peace keeping force or any other UN action "interfering" in a sovereign nations national policy (you can even call civil war a national policy on a fundamental level) has to be sanctioned by the security counsel, and I don't have to tell you who has veto powers and who doesn't in there.

If you refer to the mission itself, where the US and the UK did not contribute personel and equiptment, you can find a few missions dotted around the world. I've never heard of most of them since they did not have a big profile, being that western media is - let's be realistic here - dominated by the US and if there is no immediate interest to the country you live in or Washington doesn't decide to make a few humanitarian points for upcoming elections, diplomatic meetings etc... you are not going to hear about them, period.

I have looked for a UN mission that is recent and was fairly successful without direct US and UK involvement. This is of course save the security counsel vote and the financing which comes out of the main UN budget. This in turn takes its contributions from member nations based on GNP. In 2001 22% of the UN budget came from the US, 19.68% from Japan, 9.5% Germany, 6.3% France and 5.4 from the UK. If these contributions are actually being paid or not, is not part of my response and has no relevance to the question you have asked.

Now to the meat: I think UNOSAL meets your criteria. The UN Mission to El Salvador to help end a decade long civil war and to return the country to a sense of normality. This was 1991 to 1995. There is still a small number of UN personel present in El Salvador but only for monitoring the situation. The mission was successfull in ending the civil war, stopping systematic human rights abuse by the Salvadorian government and the Frente Farabundo (rebels). There are still problem in El Salvador but they are typical of any contry that has had a civil war and is now trying to rebuild. Things like that can't be fixed in just 10 years but the UN mission did create a workable basis.

Contributers in personel and equiptment were:
Argentina, Austria, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, France, Guyana, India, Ireland, Italy, Mexico, Norway, Spain, Sweden and Venezuela

Strength of the force deployed (peak):
368 military observers (February 1992) and 315 civilian police (May 1992), supported by international and local civilian staff
(The Mission was augmented by some 900 electoral observers during the election)

Here are a few links:

UNSAL information: http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/dpko/co_mission/onusal.htm
And the problems that still exist: http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m1309/3_39/93211770/p2/article.jhtml?term=

You can view the success of a mission in a mixed way, but at least having a government that does not arrest or torture their neighbours or family is a change for the better for the average El Salvadorian. Also not having to live in a war zone is a benefit that the UN was able to help provide and that certainly has some merit IMO.
 

ianbergman

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Oct 17, 2001
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The US leaving the UN would be such a tremendous step backwards for world politics I cringe even thinking about it.

It's easy to say the UN is ineffective, and a drain on resources (a drain that is so insignificant in our national budget by the way that it boggles the mind), but all one has to do is think about how much world opinion on violence and war has progressed over the past few decades to realize how influential the idea of a super-national body has become.

All of a sudden, nations have to answer to the world as a whole. Losing that would be a disaster for world security, and therefore for the US.

There are arguments to be made, but the counter-arguments are just too strong. I can't imagine you'll be able to write a speech based in fact that will actually be persuasive.

I would be glad to help you as far as I could, though, if you want to PM me. I did quite a lot of research and writing on this my final year of my polisci major.