I would say 4 sets should be about where he should be for size and strength maybe even 6 is more like it with pyraminding. The key is not so much the amount of work in the individual workout, but how frequently you workout. For maximum power and strength a person should bench heavily once a week. For a blend of size and strength twice a week or as many call it a two day split. Size and strength is generally tied to how well a person can recover.
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I would say 4 sets should be about where he should be for size and strength maybe even 6 is more like it with pyraminding. The key is not so much the amount of work in the individual workout, but how frequently you workout. For maximum power and strength a person should bench heavily once a week. For a blend of size and strength twice a week or as many call it a two day split. Size and strength is generally tied to how well a person can recover.
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
- 56,464
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Yes, it does. High volume, low intensity training is the fastest way to overtraining. Overtraining is the surest way to limit long term results.
The number of sets you do is absurd, and counter productive. 5 sets of EVERY exercise? WHY? You are begging to be overtrained. 30-35 sets per workout??? OMFG!!!
Look, I'm 6ft 210 lbs and about 15% body fat. My working flat bench sets are 285 6-8 reps. My dumbell rows are 140 lbs, 6-8 reps. My squats are 335, 6-8 reps.
Only two sets per exercise. 3 if I have trouble on a set reaching maximum intensity. (not including lighter warm up sets)
No more than 12-15 sets per workout.
Trying to keep up with those sitting on a needle is just plain stupid unless you're using too.
BTW, I have been seriously lifting for only 3-4 years. When I started I was barely able to get 135 up once. I had gained a bit of weight in my 30s and got real flabby, so I started running. Then I became stick thin, so I started lifting.
I'd say I know a bit about how to do this the right way.
We are about the same age. I am 5'10 192 and no offense 4 day splits suck. I have never seen anyone in 20 years ever benefit from 4 day splits unless they were training for a contest. If you hit 180-185 which sounds a little light to me, I bet you'll be weak as hell. Your workout is way to busy. You might as well do aerobics training. You got a bad workout, cuz, no way doing all of that and dropping weight is good. I am speaking on 20 years experience on that.
if your evidence against the fact that i bench what i bench is my height and weight, then you have no business teaching anyone anything. there are guys at my gym who are 185 and bench over 300 and there are guys at my gym who are over 300 and can't bench 185.
i've been lifting very consistently for the last 2.5 years, so i'm far from being a newbie. likewise, i'm far from being a pro. before i started lifting, i was 6 ft tall and about 195 lbs, but had a MUCH higher body fat percentage, probably around 25%. that percentage is way way lower now: part of it because most of that fat is gone. but that percentage is also further driven down because i've gained weight by putting on a ton of muscle.
i'm a big, bulky guy and adding/losing weight has always been easy for me. during that time, i added some 140lbs to my bench press, 200lbs to my squat, 200lbs to my deadlift, 50lbs to biceps curl and so on.
do i care if you believe that? nope. am i going to go shoot a video to prove some dumbass on a forum wrong? nope. all i'm going to do is hope people give more constructive advice and not project their own jealousy or weakness onto me.
what the hell does a 4 day split have to do with it? perhaps the number of sets he does per day is too much, but splitting your workout into 3, 4 or 5 day splits is completely irrelevant.
LOL it is extremely apparent that you are full of ****** and have no idea what you are talking about...
As for being jealous about your bench, we'll here's a video from last march that will tell you how jealous and what a dumbass I am...
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
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Kinda. Actually frequency AND sets should be minimized, along with the rep range. The only thing that should be maximized is intensity.
I have a four day split working each body part one day a week. I used to train each body part twice a week in my first year. What a waste of time that was.
Yep...there is a balance between being able to keep the intensity as high as possible while still being able to workout the next time you have to.
how exactly is it apparent that i'm full of sh*t? please, provide us with your deep insight, you who is so full of himself that you'll videotape yourself benching (assuming that's you, which i have no way of knowing).
That's irrelevant, he's new to lifting without a doubt, just by the fact he has this problem, and the things he is saying which are compltely wrong, so there is no way he can lift that much already, he had this problem and when he went to post it he decided to inflate his stats a little.
BTW OP, I am a professional powerlifter, I don't have to video tape myself benching, others do it for me.
Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
That's irrelevant, he's new to lifting without a doubt, just by the fact he has this problem, and the things he is saying which are compltely wrong, so there is no way he can lift that much already, he had this problem and when he went to post it he decided to inflate his stats a little.
BTW OP, I am a professional powerlifter, I don't have to video tape myself benching, others do it for me.
how is 2.5 years NEW to lifting? what was it that i said that was wrong? how does this "problem" make me a newbie? how does any of that make it irrelevant that you don't have to be as fat as you to lift a lot?
just stop talking out of your ass. you don't know me, you're just making stupid assumptions with no evidence to support them. you are thread crapping and instead of being helpful you're making personal attacks. so either fvck off or say something useful.
Originally posted by: brikis98
Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
That's irrelevant, he's new to lifting without a doubt, just by the fact he has this problem, and the things he is saying which are compltely wrong, so there is no way he can lift that much already, he had this problem and when he went to post it he decided to inflate his stats a little.
BTW OP, I am a professional powerlifter, I don't have to video tape myself benching, others do it for me.
how is 2.5 years NEW to lifting? what was it that i said that was wrong? how does this "problem" make me a newbie? how does any of that make it irrelevant that you don't have to be as fat as you to lift a lot?
just stop talking out of your ass. you don't know me, you're just making stupid assumptions with no evidence to support them. you are thread crapping and instead of being helpful you're making personal attacks. so either fvck off or say something useful.
Actually 2.5 is new to lifting and one still can sucumb to n00b problems if traning wasn't done properly. Also you might want to look at the part I bolded, I did help you.
Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
Originally posted by: brikis98
Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
That's irrelevant, he's new to lifting without a doubt, just by the fact he has this problem, and the things he is saying which are compltely wrong, so there is no way he can lift that much already, he had this problem and when he went to post it he decided to inflate his stats a little.
BTW OP, I am a professional powerlifter, I don't have to video tape myself benching, others do it for me.
how is 2.5 years NEW to lifting? what was it that i said that was wrong? how does this "problem" make me a newbie? how does any of that make it irrelevant that you don't have to be as fat as you to lift a lot?
just stop talking out of your ass. you don't know me, you're just making stupid assumptions with no evidence to support them. you are thread crapping and instead of being helpful you're making personal attacks. so either fvck off or say something useful.
Actually 2.5 is new to lifting and one still can sucumb to n00b problems if traning wasn't done properly. Also you might want to look at the part I bolded, I did help you.
2.5 years might be "new" if you are doing it professionally and comparing yourself to other pros, but it's far from "new" for the typical lifter who does it to just get in shape. it doesn't mean i don't make mistakes but it's far from newbie status.
and it would have been far more constructive if you had just written the helpful part and not surrounded it with "i call shens! i call shens! you're a lying n00b! "...
at any rate, i've been told by several fitness instructors that i have very good form when i bench... it's possible i'm doing too many reps/sets and/or overtraining, so i'll have to work on that and see what happens.
Originally posted by: brikis98
Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
Originally posted by: brikis98
Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
That's irrelevant, he's new to lifting without a doubt, just by the fact he has this problem, and the things he is saying which are compltely wrong, so there is no way he can lift that much already, he had this problem and when he went to post it he decided to inflate his stats a little.
BTW OP, I am a professional powerlifter, I don't have to video tape myself benching, others do it for me.
how is 2.5 years NEW to lifting? what was it that i said that was wrong? how does this "problem" make me a newbie? how does any of that make it irrelevant that you don't have to be as fat as you to lift a lot?
just stop talking out of your ass. you don't know me, you're just making stupid assumptions with no evidence to support them. you are thread crapping and instead of being helpful you're making personal attacks. so either fvck off or say something useful.
Actually 2.5 is new to lifting and one still can sucumb to n00b problems if traning wasn't done properly. Also you might want to look at the part I bolded, I did help you.
2.5 years might be "new" if you are doing it professionally and comparing yourself to other pros, but it's far from "new" for the typical lifter who does it to just get in shape. it doesn't mean i don't make mistakes but it's far from newbie status.
and it would have been far more constructive if you had just written the helpful part and not surrounded it with "i call shens! i call shens! you're a lying n00b! "...
at any rate, i've been told by several fitness instructors that i have very good form when i bench... it's possible i'm doing too many reps/sets and/or overtraining, so i'll have to work on that and see what happens.
I wouldn't trust fitness instructors...most don't know anything about good form. Go to t-nation.com and try reading some articles by dave tate...they should help.
Ahh I love ignorance
It means everything. I would bet money that his workout will do several things. One he wiil get smaller because he'll be overtrained. Two he'll experience more colds and general aches and pains because his body will struggle to repair itself. As I stated before hand the workout he has posted is way too much to do 4 days straight.
I am going to come out of my face a bit here. This is a dumb looking workout as well
Day 1
He does 19 sets, let me repeat 19 sets for his chest and lol, he works his biceps for 9 sets. First you should train the extremity body parts you use on the same day when you train your major parts. So triceps and shoulders with chest. And back and biceps together. He should be doing his triceps on this day. So day one is messed up.
Then for some assinine reason he does calves the day before he squats, uhh thats dumb.
Now day 2
He squats, lol, he should squat and do calves day 1. The squat is the ultimate excercise for size and power for the entire body. It can stimulate growth everywhere, so this excercise should go Day 1 and he should rest the day after. 15 sets seems a little stretch, but more on that later. His gut work is okay.
Now day 3
He works his back which ain't too bad. His back workout is okay. But now he does dips and works his triceps after two straight days, the day after squatting no less, and only a day removed after totally smashing his chest (tris as well) with 19 sets. And for some absolutely unknown reason, he decides to do his calves again. WTF
Oh god now day 4 is a beauty
So now after 3 straight days in which he has done 19 sets of chest work and dips with less than 36 hours in between he decides I'll now do 9 sets not including warmups of shoulder work. He should work his shoulders and tris the same day he does chest or the day after then allow 3-4 days rest before beginning again. No question I am struggling with this, because he clearly is training to tear a rotator cuff. And now for some odd bs reason he does more leg work with deadlifts. Are f'in kidding me.
I am going on record, one I think this is total bs, unless he's juicing or Mickey Mouse wrote this workout program. Not to mention I can't even for the life of me see how anyone without some chemical help, even do any of these workout days in 45-60 mins. I do less than this guy and I still hit 90 mins. I don't know who wrote this program or even why they wrote it. This program is totally a joke and the laughing part is he's bragging he's not doing to bad. IF and say IF he is truly doing this program, no doubt he'll weigh 180-185 from over training, he won't look good, and he'll have so many injuries and sicknesses he will looked aged in months. Good luck to the guy, but he is seriously lacking in knowledge.
PS. I am not hating on the guy either, I am just stating the flaws I believe in this method to working out. And hopefully he can send me some of the good stuff he's on
Here is an article for beginning powerlifting. Look at the workout, how it is laid out, and notice the rest days in between. Bodybuilding.com
And most bodybuilders train along the same lines as well or at least those that know anything. One of the great bodybuilders of all time Andreas Cahling used to train 6 times a week. The key, he trained one body part a day.
And most bodybuilders train along the same lines as well or at least those that know anything. One of the great bodybuilders of all time Andreas Cahling used to train 6 times a week. The key, he trained one body part a day.
Originally posted by: classy
Ahh I love ignorance
It means everything. I would bet money that his workout will do several things. One he wiil get smaller because he'll be overtrained. Two he'll experience more colds and general aches and pains because his body will struggle to repair itself. As I stated before hand the workout he has posted is way too much to do 4 days straight.
I am going to come out of my face a bit here. This is a dumb looking workout as well
Day 1
He does 19 sets, let me repeat 19 sets for his chest and lol, he works his biceps for 9 sets. First you should train the extremity body parts you use on the same day when you train your major parts. So triceps and shoulders with chest. And back and biceps together. He should be doing his triceps on this day. So day one is messed up.
Then for some assinine reason he does calves the day before he squats, uhh thats dumb.
Now day 2
He squats, lol, he should squat and do calves day 1. The squat is the ultimate excercise for size and power for the entire body. It can stimulate growth everywhere, so this excercise should go Day 1 and he should rest the day after. 15 sets seems a little stretch, but more on that later. His gut work is okay.
Now day 3
He works his back which ain't too bad. His back workout is okay. But now he does dips and works his triceps after two straight days, the day after squatting no less, and only a day removed after totally smashing his chest (tris as well) with 19 sets. And for some absolutely unknown reason, he decides to do his calves again. WTF
Oh god now day 4 is a beauty
So now after 3 straight days in which he has done 19 sets of chest work and dips with less than 36 hours in between he decides I'll now do 9 sets not including warmups of shoulder work. He should work his shoulders and tris the same day he does chest or the day after then allow 3-4 days rest before beginning again. No question I am struggling with this, because he clearly is training to tear a rotator cuff. And now for some odd bs reason he does more leg work with deadlifts. Are f'in kidding me.
I am going on record, one I think this is total bs, unless he's juicing or Mickey Mouse wrote this workout program. Not to mention I can't even for the life of me see how anyone without some chemical help, even do any of these workout days in 45-60 mins. I do less than this guy and I still hit 90 mins. I don't know who wrote this program or even why they wrote it. This program is totally a joke and the laughing part is he's bragging he's not doing to bad. IF and say IF he is truly doing this program, no doubt he'll weigh 180-185 from over training, he won't look good, and he'll have so many injuries and sicknesses he will looked aged in months. Good luck to the guy, but he is seriously lacking in knowledge.
PS. I am not hating on the guy either, I am just stating the flaws I believe in this method to working out. And hopefully he can send me some of the good stuff he's on
you really didn't answer my question. i asked you why a 4 day split, as opposed to a 3 or 5 day split, is a problem. instead you pick apart one guy's particular workout and call me ignorant. why do so many people on this forum choose personal attacks rather than just providing some information??
now, i'm NOT arguing with you that the particular workout in question is bad. it's oddly designed, ordered and has an extreme number of sets per body part. however, IN GENERAL, i see nothing wrong with a properly designed 4 day split. for example, the four day split at the end of this page.
for me, cramming everything into a 3 day split would require each workout to be too long. the 4 day split works very well for me and i tend to do cardio on the off days (especially the weekends).
Red Dawn
Elite Member
- Jun 4, 2001
- 57,529
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Actually at first I took your advice about training large muscle groups more than once a week and I had good results until I started to platue. Then I went with the high inensity low volume routine and had good results for awhile until I herniated a disk in my back at work. Because of that injury I had to adjust the way I did my Military Press and when I did that I shredded my left shoulder. Because of that I had to lower the intensity and low and behold I started noticing changes again in my physique, though I wasn't as strong with my power lifts I was starting to see more definition. I added cardio after each session and started to see even more definition. All in all I like these results better than any I had achieved prior. I might not be as bulky as I was when I was at 215 or 228 but at 190 I look more athletic and cut (first time I've ever had a visible six pack).
I do believe my days of doing sets of 315 are gone but I don't give a sh!t, I just do more sets at a lower weight and do cardio afterwards and I think I've finally found my perfect routine... well at least for now. Next Spring I might stumble onto a different routine that I like even better:laugh:
The point I'm getting at is that different routines work for diferent people. What works well for Amused might not work so well for Alky and what works for Alky might not work well for someone else.
Well that's what happens to old men...here's some depends.
LOL just playing with you. That's great to hear that you are cut for the first time. Like I said you before, when I get too old to compete (I guess in 10 years) I can't wait to get rid of these stretch marks and do some real cardio and get some definition that the ladies will like
. What type of cardio do you do?- Status
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