Bench press: power but no stamina?

[brikis98]

a question for those of you who actually lift on a regular basis...

i noticed an anomaly the last few weeks while benching. typically, my horizontal bench press looks like this:

1st set: 225, 8-10 reps
2nd set: 245, 6-8 reps
3rd set: 265, 4-6 reps
4th set: 275, 2-4 reps

however, a couple weeks ago i thought about doing some more toning (more reps) and noticed the following:

1st set: 225, 8-10 reps
2nd set: 225, 6-8 reps
3rd set: 225, 4-6 reps
4th set: 225, 2-4 reps

so, despite the fact that i was doing less weight, i really couldn't get any more reps! that is, my chest tired at the same rate almost regardless of the weight i was putting up.

has my method of training given me lots of strength/power in the chest, but no stamina? my ultimate goal is to put more weight up on the bench, so would i benefit from doing some toning now to increase the muscle stamina? anyone else have experience with something like this?

 

[dug777]

stamina is for girls and runners

 

[glenn beck]

were you taking less of a rest with the lighter weight?

 

[new2AMD]

One time does not make a trend. You need to keep testing it to see if it really is that way or you just had less energy or a bad lifting day that day.

 

[PurdueRy]

You must be CPU limited

 

[patentman]

I had the same issue with my legs a while back. I could squat the same number of reps whether I did 225, 275 or 350 lbs. Are you doing the exact same exercises for a given muscle group every time you go to the gym? If so, you gotta switch things up to build stamina. Grab some 50lb dumbells and do some incline, decline, and flat bech at odd angles to strengthen the minor pectoral muscles. Do negatives (lower the amount of weight and for each rep, go down in a controlled motion for 4 seconds and up in 1) to increase stamina. Balance and compensation techniques also help strengthen minor muscle groups and improve stamina (i.e., have someone spot you while doing flat dumbell bench and at the top of each rep have them push your arms away from your body with moderate force and at different angles).

 

[Descartes]

It's more likely that your arms are fatigued, not your chest. Personally, I'd drop the sets and/or repetitions until you stop having to drop reps like that. Dropping a rep or maybe two on the last set might be ok, but not on every set after the first.

Also, it's possible you just have bad form. If your repetitions are too slow and/or you're putting too much stress on your arms you will prematurely fatigue them; fatigue your arms and you won't have that explosiveness you need to get the bar off your chest. I've noticed a lot of people, sometimes myself included, that put far too much stress on the negative and thus fatigue their arms.

That's my $0.02.

 

[Red Dawn]

Instead of doing the same exercises at lower weights change up your lifts by using dumbells or changing your grip. You might have to check your ego though as you probably won't be able to lift as much but you will get more out of it because you will be using different muscles or parts of your muscles (pecs, tricep and delts in this instance)

 

[Amused]

Why 4 sets? More is not better when weight training for size and strength.

Take longer breaks in between sets.

 

[brikis98]

wow, lots of quick responses thanks...

* i've done the lighter weight bench routine more than once, with pretty much the same results each time (that's why it says 6-8 reps rather than just 8), so it's definitely a trend
* i get a decent amount of rest between sets (1-2 min), but i'm not sure if you need more or less rest between sets when you tone (ie, do more reps). any advice there is appreciated.
* the routine i listed is just the horizontal bench part of my chest workout. i typically do 1-3 more chest exercises afterwords, such as incline, decline, flies, dips, etc. so far, i have not noticed the same trend for the other exercises - eg, if i go down in weight on incline, i can do more reps consistently for several sets.
* i used to do dumbells a lot, but the biggest ones at the gym are hundreds, which were not enough for horizontal bench. however, i still use dumbells for incline/decline and flies.
* however, if the fatigured arm idea is right, maybe doing some dumbells for horizontal bench will help (my triceps usually burned the most from dumbells), so i'll give that a try again starting next week
* i change my workout all the time; i used to do 3x10, then 4x8, then a 5x5, now back to this (where each set i increase the weight but decrease in reps). i keep changing it to break through plateaus; there's no particular reason for 4 sets, other than that's what felt like the best workout. if there's reason to believe it's a worse workout, please let me know.

 

[Amused]

When you lift heavy (8 reps and under) a rest of 4-5 minutes is far better.

All my rests average 4 minutes.

High reps do not "tone." Tone comes from less body fat. Less body fat is achived through diet and cardio.

High reps are good for one thing: Specific muscular endurance.

In other words, if you do not need muscular endurance for sports or other activities that require pushing, there is no reason to do high rep sets of bench presses.

 

[iamme]

wow, 4 minutes? i had no idea.

 

[wheresmybacon]

Originally posted by: brikis98
a question for those of you who actually lift on a regular basis...

i noticed an anomaly the last few weeks while benching. typically, my horizontal bench press looks like this:

1st set: 225, 8-10 reps
2nd set: 245, 6-8 reps
3rd set: 265, 4-6 reps
4th set: 275, 2-4 reps

however, a couple weeks ago i thought about doing some more toning (more reps) and noticed the following:

1st set: 225, 8-10 reps
2nd set: 225, 6-8 reps
3rd set: 225, 4-6 reps
4th set: 225, 2-4 reps

so, despite the fact that i was doing less weight, i really couldn't get any more reps! that is, my chest tired at the same rate almost regardless of the weight i was putting up.

has my method of training given me lots of strength/power in the chest, but no stamina? my ultimate goal is to put more weight up on the bench, so would i benefit from doing some toning now to increase the muscle stamina? anyone else have experience with something like this?

toning through more reps alone? that's not going to make you lean if that's what you're after. keep your diet super clean and up your cardio to get toned.

later on you say your goal is to lift more weight. which is it?

i think you need to decide what your goal is because getting toned and achieving a new personal record for bench max are more or less on opposite sides of the training spectrum. they don't have to be, but most of the time they are.

 

[Rudee]

3 minutes rest should be sufficient for the weight you are lifting.

 

[Cattlegod]

the EXACT same thing happens to me. I do the 6-4-2 route

warm up with a few reps of 185, then i do 6 @ 245, 4 @ 255, 2@ 275

if I use 225 lbs for my entire work out, by my 3rd set, i can only do about 2 reps ( when i would be doing 2 @ 275 ). Not sure what is going on, but the same thing happens to me. (the reason i use 225 sometimes is there is not a spotter around)

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: hungfarover

Originally posted by: brikis98
a question for those of you who actually lift on a regular basis...

i noticed an anomaly the last few weeks while benching. typically, my horizontal bench press looks like this:

1st set: 225, 8-10 reps
2nd set: 245, 6-8 reps
3rd set: 265, 4-6 reps
4th set: 275, 2-4 reps

however, a couple weeks ago i thought about doing some more toning (more reps) and noticed the following:

1st set: 225, 8-10 reps
2nd set: 225, 6-8 reps
3rd set: 225, 4-6 reps
4th set: 225, 2-4 reps

so, despite the fact that i was doing less weight, i really couldn't get any more reps! that is, my chest tired at the same rate almost regardless of the weight i was putting up.

has my method of training given me lots of strength/power in the chest, but no stamina? my ultimate goal is to put more weight up on the bench, so would i benefit from doing some toning now to increase the muscle stamina? anyone else have experience with something like this?

toning through more reps alone? that's not going to make you lean if that's what you're after. keep your diet super clean and up your cardio to get toned.

later on you say your goal is to lift more weight. which is it?

i think you need to decide what your goal is because getting toned and achieving a new personal record for bench max are more or less on opposite sides of the training spectrum. they don't have to be, but most of the time they are.

Yep that's been my experience. Are you aware that Body Builders when in contests are usually at their weakest? Hell just posing wears them out.

 

[Koing]

You aren't trained to do stamina thus your reps will be poorer. BUT you 'should' be able to lift the reps as the weight is less then when you were lifting heavy.

You just need to stick with more reps and your muscles will adjust to the demands.

Higher reps = more counter productive to your 1RM
Less reps = more counter productive to your bench press for reps

Koing

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: hungfarover

Originally posted by: brikis98
a question for those of you who actually lift on a regular basis...

i noticed an anomaly the last few weeks while benching. typically, my horizontal bench press looks like this:

1st set: 225, 8-10 reps
2nd set: 245, 6-8 reps
3rd set: 265, 4-6 reps
4th set: 275, 2-4 reps

however, a couple weeks ago i thought about doing some more toning (more reps) and noticed the following:

1st set: 225, 8-10 reps
2nd set: 225, 6-8 reps
3rd set: 225, 4-6 reps
4th set: 225, 2-4 reps

so, despite the fact that i was doing less weight, i really couldn't get any more reps! that is, my chest tired at the same rate almost regardless of the weight i was putting up.

has my method of training given me lots of strength/power in the chest, but no stamina? my ultimate goal is to put more weight up on the bench, so would i benefit from doing some toning now to increase the muscle stamina? anyone else have experience with something like this?

toning through more reps alone? that's not going to make you lean if that's what you're after. keep your diet super clean and up your cardio to get toned.

This sounds like the spot reduction myth. A lot of people think that if they continue to work out a specific area they'll burn fat around the area and build muscle; so, it's natural to assume that more reps == more calories burned == more fat burned == tone.

Of course, that's not true as you pointed out.

i think you need to decide what your goal is because getting toned and achieving a new personal record for bench max are more or less on opposite sides of the training spectrum. they don't have to be, but most of the time they are.

This is just cutting vs. bulking, yes? Bulk to gain mass + strength; cut for obvious reasons. I don't think I've ever gained strength while cutting, but I can cut fat very easily.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: Amused
When you lift heavy (8 reps and under) a rest of 4-5 minutes is far better.

All my rests average 4 minutes.

High reps do not "tone." Tone comes from less body fat. Less body fat is achived through diet and cardio.

High reps are good for one thing: Specific muscular endurance.

In other words, if you do not need muscular endurance for sports or other activities that require pushing, there is no reason to do high rep sets of bench presses.

interesting info about the rest between sets... i'll have to give that a try as well.

however, i'm not sure your opinion on toning is quite accurate. i know that toning does not have any impact on weight loss or cardio - that's just a common misconception. but toned muscles do look different.

in fact, there's basically three categories: lifting for power, lifting for size and lifting for toning. obviously, all three are very closely tied together, but the differences are noticeable.

* power lifters do very few reps (1-6) but a tremendous amount of weight. these are the guys you see in the olympics putting up ridiculous amounts of weight
* to build size, you do more reps, usually 6-8. you do this number of reps with about 75-85% of your max weight which has been shown to produce the biggest muscles. this, combined with some toning, is primarily what body builders do. this produces the biggest muscles, but not necessarily the strongest - typically, body builders will not be able to lift as much as power lifters
* toning has the greatest number of reps, usually 10-15. toned muscles have a different look - they are not as big as the above two, but have tons of stamina and look very cut and refined. look at a the legs of a pro biker or hockey player and you'll see what i mean. of course, if you're fat, toning won't help and no one will see your chiseled muscles

my question, however, is whether building muscle stamina would help my bench press since it seems like stamina is the limiting factor at this point...

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: Amused
When you lift heavy (8 reps and under) a rest of 4-5 minutes is far better.

All my rests average 4 minutes.

High reps do not "tone." Tone comes from less body fat. Less body fat is achived through diet and cardio.

High reps are good for one thing: Specific muscular endurance.

In other words, if you do not need muscular endurance for sports or other activities that require pushing, there is no reason to do high rep sets of bench presses.

interesting info about the rest between sets... i'll have to give that a try as well.

however, i'm not sure your opinion on toning is quite accurate. i know that toning does not have any impact on weight loss or cardio - that's just a common misconception. but toned muscles do look different.

in fact, there's basically three categories: lifting for power, lifting for size and lifting for toning. obviously, all three are very closely tied together, but the differences are noticeable.

* power lifters do very few reps (1-6) but a tremendous amount of weight. these are the guys you see in the olympics putting up ridiculous amounts of weight
* to build size, you do more reps, usually 6-8. you do this number of reps with about 75-85% of your max weight which has been shown to produce the biggest muscles. this, combined with some toning, is primarily what body builders do. this produces the biggest muscles, but not necessarily the strongest - typically, body builders will not be able to lift as much as power lifters
* toning has the greatest number of reps, usually 10-15. toned muscles have a different look - they are not as big as the above two, but have tons of stamina and look very cut and refined. look at a the legs of a pro biker or hockey player and you'll see what i mean. of course, if you're fat, toning won't help and no one will see your chiseled muscles

my question, however, is whether building muscle stamina would help my bench press since it seems like stamina is the limiting factor at this point...

I could also be wrong, but it sounds like you have some misconceptions.

As Amused said, "tone" comes from lack of body fat covering the muscles. That gives you added vascularity, striations (if that's what you're looking for), etc. Of course the muscles will have a different look; they'll be smaller, more athletic looking rather than bulky because your training wasn't focused on building muscle.

Can someone else chime in here?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: brikis98
[* toning has the greatest number of reps, usually 10-15. toned muscles have a different look - they are not as big as the above two, but have tons of stamina and look very cut and refined. look at a the legs of a pro biker or hockey player and you'll see what i mean.

You forget about the amount of cardio those guys do, a lot more than just doing a lot of reps lifting weights.

 

[brikis98]

guys, i'm not arguing that low body fat percentage is important to looking toned... but i'm at about 7% body fat and my muscles look a lot more bulky than "cut"... at any rate, i'm still more interested in more muscle stamina would be useful or not

 

[BUrassler]

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: Amused
When you lift heavy (8 reps and under) a rest of 4-5 minutes is far better.

All my rests average 4 minutes.

High reps do not "tone." Tone comes from less body fat. Less body fat is achived through diet and cardio.

High reps are good for one thing: Specific muscular endurance.

In other words, if you do not need muscular endurance for sports or other activities that require pushing, there is no reason to do high rep sets of bench presses.

interesting info about the rest between sets... i'll have to give that a try as well.

however, i'm not sure your opinion on toning is quite accurate. i know that toning does not have any impact on weight loss or cardio - that's just a common misconception. but toned muscles do look different.

in fact, there's basically three categories: lifting for power, lifting for size and lifting for toning. obviously, all three are very closely tied together, but the differences are noticeable.

* power lifters do very few reps (1-6) but a tremendous amount of weight. these are the guys you see in the olympics putting up ridiculous amounts of weight
* to build size, you do more reps, usually 6-8. you do this number of reps with about 75-85% of your max weight which has been shown to produce the biggest muscles. this, combined with some toning, is primarily what body builders do. this produces the biggest muscles, but not necessarily the strongest - typically, body builders will not be able to lift as much as power lifters
* toning has the greatest number of reps, usually 10-15. toned muscles have a different look - they are not as big as the above two, but have tons of stamina and look very cut and refined. look at a the legs of a pro biker or hockey player and you'll see what i mean. of course, if you're fat, toning won't help and no one will see your chiseled muscles

my question, however, is whether building muscle stamina would help my bench press since it seems like stamina is the limiting factor at this point...

There is no such thing as "lifting for tonig"

You are confussing that with lifting for muscle endurance, wich is the third type of lifting, besides for strength or hypertrophy.

 

[wheresmybacon]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: hungfarover

Originally posted by: brikis98
a question for those of you who actually lift on a regular basis...

i noticed an anomaly the last few weeks while benching. typically, my horizontal bench press looks like this:

1st set: 225, 8-10 reps
2nd set: 245, 6-8 reps
3rd set: 265, 4-6 reps
4th set: 275, 2-4 reps

however, a couple weeks ago i thought about doing some more toning (more reps) and noticed the following:

1st set: 225, 8-10 reps
2nd set: 225, 6-8 reps
3rd set: 225, 4-6 reps
4th set: 225, 2-4 reps

so, despite the fact that i was doing less weight, i really couldn't get any more reps! that is, my chest tired at the same rate almost regardless of the weight i was putting up.

has my method of training given me lots of strength/power in the chest, but no stamina? my ultimate goal is to put more weight up on the bench, so would i benefit from doing some toning now to increase the muscle stamina? anyone else have experience with something like this?

toning through more reps alone? that's not going to make you lean if that's what you're after. keep your diet super clean and up your cardio to get toned.

This sounds like the spot reduction myth. A lot of people think that if they continue to work out a specific area they'll burn fat around the area and build muscle; so, it's natural to assume that more reps == more calories burned == more fat burned == tone.

Of course, that's not true as you pointed out.

i think you need to decide what your goal is because getting toned and achieving a new personal record for bench max are more or less on opposite sides of the training spectrum. they don't have to be, but most of the time they are.

This is just cutting vs. bulking, yes? Bulk to gain mass + strength; cut for obvious reasons. I don't think I've ever gained strength while cutting, but I can cut fat very easily.

exactly. nothing much more to say.

 

[wheresmybacon]

Originally posted by: brikis98
guys, i'm not arguing that low body fat percentage is important to looking toned... but i'm at about 7% body fat and my muscles look a lot more bulky than "cut"... at any rate, i'm still more interested in more muscle stamina would be useful or not

top pro athletes are around this mark. Terrel Owens is probably about 7%. you've seen him i take it? if you look like that then yeah maybe you are at 7%, but i doubt it.

people have a misconception about what real body fat percentages are. i recall seeing some guy on atot claiming he had 3% body fat. lol

at 9% you are VERY lean. at 8% you have a defined 6-pack. anything below like 6-7 is very rare and/or cutting numbers for pro bodybuilders.