Belinea 20.1" Widescreen LCD - (Update) It's a great monitor!

[Diasper]

I'm just interested to know what people make of this Belinea 20.1" widescreen and primarily how it compares to the Dell 20" widescreen. UK prices this monitor is cheaper and looks quite compelling specs-wise. In fact it's specs look like a real step above the Dell monitor - although we all know in reality it might be quite different.

I've listed the product details below but this are the more important details I've pulled from it that it features:

It's an AU Optics panel - so are there reviews out there of other monitors using the same panel given they should all perform similiarly?
MAXDATA screen?
8ms reponse (apparently)
800:1 contrast ratio

Anyone know what ghosting is like? (despite the 8ms claim)
Does this feature 8-bit colour quality? (It says 16.7 million so there is some hope...)
Viewing angles?


I've used the Dell 2005FPW in person and it was nice. But, does Dell have competition - does it beat it or not?


------------------------

Belinea 102035W 20.1" Widescreen LCD Monitor - Black/Silver (MO-003-BE)
The Belinea 10 20 35W is the first MAXDATA screen with a wide format. Users looking for more horizontal space on their screen will be delighted with this monitor. Websites are displayed better because you no longer need to scroll from right to left working on wide film sequences is easier and it is also possible to display various applications on the screen at the same time. Up to 4 devices such as a digital camera external disk drive or keyboard can be easily connected via the integrated USB port. The very short 8 ms response time integrated speakers and the additional DVI connection also make this display perfect for multimedia use. Featuring the latest panel AU O offering unbeatable visual quality and performance making this LCD monitor ideal for gamers, home cinema and performance users.

- 1680 x 1050 (WUXGA) Optimum Resolution
- 16.7 Million Colours
- 800:1 Contrast Ratio
- 8ms Response Time
- 300 cd/m2 Brightness
- One DVI-D Input
- One Analogue Input
- Height adjustable stand (100mm travel)
- VESA mounting compatible / Security slot : Yes (100mm) / Yes
- Integrated powered USB 2.0 hub : 4 downstream / 1 upstream ports
- Integrated Speakers
- Warranty : 3 year on-site warranty supplied by Manufacturer

 

[Keeir]

Given the Specs, it looks like a P-MVA panel

I belive its typically types "10 20 35W"

Check here for a better review
BeHardware Review

If thats the monitor you are talking about..

It will have some of the best response overall that is currently possible. It utilizes the overdrive technology which if done well can make every response the same or better than typical ISO. I would check the LCD buyers guide (thread at the top) for more information keeping in mind the Belina is a 20" Widescreen version of the Viewsonic 930b (more or less)

As far as the stack up with the Dell goes... Dell has alot of the "extras" that same people like such as better conenctivity, a better stand (swivel, tilt, pivot), as well as support for PIP, PBP, 1:1 scaling (on the monitor end) and etc...

 

[Diasper]

Thanks alot for finding that. I think it is the same.

Overdrive technology doesn't enthuse me too much - neither does MVA panels. The response rate I think I can live with as I've played Fra Cry on the Dell before and it was fine for me.

I guess i'll be looking at getting the Dell if I can

 

[Diasper]

Dell has overdrive too. hm. Anyone else noticed twinkling on it?

I wish the review had directly compared them - they seem pretty close

Dell 2005FPW (S-IPS) or Belinea (P-MVA) is the question. What is better?

 

[xtknight]

S-IPS: little/no color shift at wide viewing angles
P-MVA: a lot higher contrast and brightness, deeper black

The two should be of about the same response after Overdrive.

I have ViewSonic VP930b (AUO P-MVA). Grayscale and colors are f***king amazing after thorough calibration. The contrast on it is incredible. Even Excel looks sweet, and the yellow flamethrower in Wolfenstein over a darkish level is like nothing you've seen before.

As per Keeir's link: http://www.behardware.com/articles/598-5/20-inches-lcd-p-mva-vs-s-ips.html

In the graphics test, the S-IPS has more blurring than the P-MVA, which will be particularly annoying. The P-MVA's afterimage evaporates more quickly and its image retains very good contrast while the S-IPS one lingers and trails around. Well, at least for these monitors. BeHardware agrees with that in the paragraph below.

 

[McArra]

I have just ordered a 101920 Belinea (19") with MVA panel. It seems to be one of the best monitors in the market and at a sweet price. So I guess that 20" is also a great one.

 

[Diasper]

You reckon the Belinea then?

Should the 20" widescreen and 19" AUO panels be exactly the same in properties?


So if attempting to sum up the pros & cons of both would this be about right?



Dell
+ Better colours (little)
+ Better viewing angles (medium)

But
- Possible backlight bleeding



Belinea
+ Better blacks (significant)
+ Slightly less twinkling in films (tho not noticed this on the Dell)
+ Equal or slightly faster response but much less blurring (significant)

But
- More likely to have dead pixels?? (from looking at other forums' comments - returns policy?)


I guess from that the Belinea seems to have the more positives or rather more significant positives. Primary use would be general, films, games in that order although I'll be making the purchasing decision really on the last two. Deeper blacks and faster/less blurring are significant ++ves

 

[Diasper]

xtknight thanks alot for the link in the other thread btw - just a quick question but do you have any numbers to compare the VP930B vs the Dell? If you have any numbers for the VP930B, I can get numbers for the Dell

Link I'm talking about http://people.freenet.de/wwelti/PixPerAn_english.zip

 

[xtknight]

The Dell would probably have worse colors IMO due to the lower contrast.

By numbers do you mean response time? Nope, I haven't seen the Dell tested on any LCD review site that tests response time.

 

[Diasper]

Gimme specs of your monitor if you can as tested by the link you gave eg chase test and readability test and I'll get back to you with the results from the Dell 2005FPW - nothing like doing it yourself

 

[Diasper]

Just an afterthought but wouldn't a thread compiling all the results of various monitors be a good idea ...could be stickied and accompany the LCD Buyers Guide or even join it although it is pretty long already : )

 

[xtknight]

Oh, alright, I'll capture some response time images with that PixPerAn program.

 

[xtknight]

Still want them? Sorry I forgot to post them today, I'll put them up tomorrow. Is that what you meant though: use the ghosting reproduction tool in PixPerAn?

Here's a few for now. Best I could get them.

VP930b-Tempo 4
VP930b-Tempo 8
VP930b-Tempo 5

 

[IlllI]

Originally posted by: xtknight
Still want them? Sorry I forgot to post them today, I'll put them up tomorrow. Is that what you meant though: use the ghosting reproduction tool in PixPerAn?

Here's a few for now. Best I could get them.

VP930b-Tempo 4
VP930b-Tempo 8
VP930b-Tempo 5

wow, thats pretty good !

 

[Diasper]

Thanks alot for those pics xtknight! That looks pretty good there.

I'll be adding photos of the Dell 2005FPW and old 17" L1710B soon (work's keeping me me a bit busy)

Quick question but as the pictures are taken by the human viewer trying to create a picture to match does it mean that people could come across different results as some people are more sensitive to ghosting than others?

Also quick point on the Belinea from a review at prad.de, they comment

The way the Belinea 102035W interpolates can not be set within the OSD. Resolutions other than the native resolution of 1680 x 1050 will always be interpolated to full screen. Since the resolution of 1680 x 1050 has an aspect ratio of 16:10, all resolutions that have a different aspect ratio will be displayed stretched. At 1024 x 768 with an aspect ratio of 4:3 for example, the screen content will be shown slightly stretched. Circles will appear oval. By and large we can assess this monitor good interpolation quality. If the Belinea 102035W is connected digitally, users are given the option of making interpolation settings via the menu of the graphics card driver.

So that means that the monitor will always force any games etc full screen? Anyone know for sure? ATI under Catalyst options has a choice whether you can keep it 1:1 scaling but would that still be work with this monitor? If it automatically always scales stuff that then wouldn't be so good!

(edited)

 

[xtknight]

It's still image so people's own sensitivities to motion don't apply here.

You did mean by adjusting the PixPerAn program and using its save function, right? I didn't take those pictures with a camera like BeHardware does. I wondered because you said 'photos'.

 

[Diasper]

Yeah I meant adjusting the image generated by the PixPerAn prog until it matches and then saving it.

All I was wondering is could different people see the amount of blurring differently so that when people try creating a picture to match how much blurring they see on screen it will only reflect how much blurring they see when someone else could perhaps be more sensitive and see more.

I'm probably over-thinking this.

I may try and take a picture as well with my camera although I wonder if I can get the shutter speed fast enough for it to work properly - I'm not sure how happily an A95 will reach 1/1000+ shutter speeds - putting it close enough to the screen and upping the brightness enough should do it.


Btw you know about the scaling stuff? Would it even override software/driver settings such as the 1-1 scaling on ATI Catalyst Settings?

 

[xtknight]

Oh, it's true some people are bothered about it more than others yeah. Or maybe some are more tolerant than others. I don't really know. It's a good relative measure though.

Would what override the driver settings? Nothing does as far as I know. Scaled resolutions will have worse ghosting on an LCD because the pixels are going to be doubled up. More crystals to change for the same picture.

 

[Diasper]

No no I mean from what reviews have said, the Belinea monitor forces any image input to be scaled to full screen (quotation from prad.de as above) - I wanted to know if this was true not about the effect on ghosting.

You see if the monitor always forced upscaling and thus distortion that would be a deal-breaker as it means any games etc that didn't support widescreen would get distorted.

 

[itsrunninghot]

Originally posted by: Diasper
No no I mean from what reviews have said, the Belinea monitor forces any image input to be scaled to full screen (quotation from prad.de as above) - I wanted to know if this was true not about the effect on ghosting.

You see if the monitor always forced upscaling and thus distortion that would be a deal-breaker as it means any games etc that didn't support widescreen would get distorted.

I think this is only if you are connecting with an analog cable.

"If the Belinea 102035W is connected digitally, users are given the option of making interpolation settings via the menu of the graphics card driver."

 

[Diasper]

hmm, yeah should do I hope - I just wish someone else had it to confirm it.


Btw, just a note on ghosting/motion blur - does it actually mean the image that's displayed is actually perceptively slower than a CRT ie it's a few frames behind?

Just wondering as in the prad.de review they took a video of the Belinea next to a CRT using clone using some fast paced Doom 3 action and the Belinea did in fact seem a few frames behind the CRT.... Play the video found here - pause it and then use the arrow keys to go forward frames to see the differences. Some very obvious stuff included a rocket fired at the player still being on the Belinea screen while on the CRT it had already shot past out of the field of view.


I didn't realise that the delay's in LCDs could be that significant.. or am I seeing something wrong?

 

[LIVAN]

Originally posted by: Diasper
Dell has overdrive too. hm. Anyone else noticed twinkling on it?

I wish the review had directly compared them - they seem pretty close

Dell 2005FPW (S-IPS) or Belinea (P-VMA) is the question. What is better?

Isn't the Dell 2405fpw MVA too?

 

[xtknight]

2405FPW is S-PVA and 2005FPW is S-IPS.

I hooked up my LCD and CRT on my dual-DVI 7800GT. They were precisely the same speed. The LCD shouldn't be delayed. Probably a bad graphics card setting. It's stupid to conclude something when you have no control variable (no CRT hooked up to 'slow' output). Using the second input on my LCD and old 6800NU, I can tell that the second output on the graphics card was just a tad slower in mouse movement. Very likely that's what's happening here. On my new 7800GT that doesn't seem to be a problem.

 

[Diasper]

Thanks. It'll be that no doubt.

Just for interest here's a nice long thread at ocuk on the monitor.


Well anyway, I've decided - I'm buying it tomorrow.

£329 at overclock.co.uk.

Well, I hope this monitor's ok with deadpixels and backlight bleeding as some people have been experiencing. Overclock have just had new stock in recently so here's hoping I get a good one.

I'll report back with a review when I get it. : )

(edited)

 

[Diasper]

I got the monitor...

I'll do a fuller review in time, I haven't calibrated it and checked all the driver settings but wow this monitor is excellent.

- First off no dead pixels!
- Back light bleeding is there but minimal. However, it is certainly better than my brother's Dell 2005FPW.
- Build quality is pretty good thought in my opinion mixed. The main monitor part itself looks and feels solid - I like the squarer edged design of it vs the Dell. The speaker bit I was unsure of when I bought it but it's kinda growing on me such that it's fine. The only thing I will complain about is the buttons on the front. They feel like the buttons you get on cheap mobile phones as they can be 'wobbled' with your finger - that said I don't aim to be 'wobblying' them much and otherwise they look fine.
- Viewing angles are the same if not possibly better - a HUGE step up from my previous TN panel. To get any significant hue change you have to go rather far out- about 50 degrees there is some shift beginning (whitening) and getting a gradual whiter hue. However, next to TN panel the shift is insignificant and for film viewing is still great. Meanwhile for more colour conscious users the 50 degree arc should be fine to maintain colour accuracy for a single user - 'colour professionals' should however probably look elsewhere.
- Blacks are pretty damn decent - really rather good though a good CRT will no doubt easily beat it here although it's something I'm pretty sure I'll never notice as it is close or close enough for my eyes. Otherwise contrast is very good and I in fact had to turn it down a touch (to about 75). Brightness I had to turn down a lot and I have it at 15 (0-30 seems the optimal band and also reduces blacklight bleeding significantly)
- Now onto the main bit - ghosting and response - all I can say is wow this is fast. I tested it on Far Cry and there was no ghosting I could see whatsoever while the game looked truly fantastic in widescreen. Fast films were also similarly great and looked amazing on it. For something more objective I got pretty much the exact same image as xtknight with tempo 8. It is really is good. The only effect I have noticed is some afterglow. This was more in the chase test and more so in test 3 with the blue and white squares. However, it is generally minor - since I started tweaking the screen the glow effect has reduced significantly such that I'm sure I can reduce it more with better calibration.

In all I can say is this is my favourite purchase ever and in my opinion easily a match for the Dell 2005FPW

I'll get my camera out and do a more objective and fuller review over the next week as time allows.


(edited)