Belgium lawmakers considering banning burqas

[William Gaatjes]

So? I don't understand the point you are trying to make.

Afcourse you do not...

 

[CanOWorms]

You can state al you like. But it is not true. If there is any trouble, it is the same as always. People who not speak the language. And there misunderstandings arise. Afcourse there will aways be some attitude by a part of the people that jobs should go to natives first. But that is the case in every country. Also in the US. Which is nothing to be ashamed off. It just is the way it is in the current global economic climate.

Of course it's true. You just admitted it yourself by talking about language.

You generalize to much to give any one who reads your post the impression it is not about some deranged individuals who exist in every country(sad but true) but your opinion is biased and based against all people of a country, or any european location.

Nope. Where are the generalizations? Everything I said can be supported by facts. I don't say ALL Europeans do so and so. I refer to governments, social groups, etc. When Germany wants to construct concentration camps in the African desert and I mention it, that is not a generalization. It's a fact. When I say that most Europeans are racist, that is a fact supported by polls, surveys, etc.

What you wish to do is simply brush these social ills away as if they are nothing. Yes, deranged individuals live in every country. However, concentration, degree, influence, and other factors are important. You are denying what is happening. Pretending that the far-right is a fringe element of society is no longer a luxury that can be afforded. Their interests have entered the mainstream.

You are acting like someone in Sudan saying that someone was killed in the streets of London and comparing it to the genocide in Darfur. There is a huge difference.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Of course it's true. You just admitted it yourself by talking about language.



Nope. Where are the generalizations? Everything I said can be supported by facts. I don't say ALL Europeans do so and so. I refer to governments, social groups, etc. When Germany wants to construct concentration camps in the African desert and I mention it, that is not a generalization. It's a fact. When I say that most Europeans are racist, that is a fact supported by polls, surveys, etc.

What you wish to do is simply brush these social ills away as if they are nothing. Yes, deranged individuals live in every country. However, concentration, degree, influence, and other factors are important. You are denying what is happening. Pretending that the far-right is a fringe element of society is no longer a luxury that can be afforded. Their interests have entered the mainstream.

You are acting like someone in Sudan saying that someone was killed in the streets of London and comparing it to the genocide in Darfur. There is a huge difference.

http://www.truthaboutdeception.com/confront_a_liar/public/pathological-compulsive.html

There will always be a small group of deranged individuals in any country who will blame everyone and everything for something and when confronted try to lie their way out of it. You are no different from those people. You remind me of the description of a compulsive liar :

A compulsive liar is defined as someone who lies out of habit. Lying is their normal and reflexive way of responding to questions. Compulsive liars bend the truth about everything, large and small. For a compulsive liar, telling the truth is very awkward and uncomfortable while lying feels right. Compulsive lying is usually thought to develop in early childhood, due to being placed in an environment where lying was necessary. For the most part, compulsive liars are not overly manipulative and cunning (see, Pathological Liar), rather they simply lie out of habit - an automatic response which is hard to break and one that takes its toll on a relationship (see, how to cope with a compulsive liar).

 

[CanOWorms]

http://www.truthaboutdeception.com/confront_a_liar/public/pathological-compulsive.html

There will always be a small group of deranged individuals in any country who will blame everyone and everything for something and when confronted try to lie their way out of it. You are no different from those people. You remind me of the description of a compulsive liar :

Well, I've stated no lies so I'm not sure how that is applicable to me.

 

[tvarad]

First of all, I don't imagine acid throwing is a religious-motivated issue but cultural or tribal.

I'm simply stating that these issues with minorities and immigrants in Europe revolve around more than just religion. Many Eastern Europeans are massively discriminated against, and most of them are not Muslim. Same with the Chinese, for example, in Italy.

I criticize their horrific social ills and political pandering to the far-right. Criticism is not prejudice. If it was, then I would say that your criticism of me shows that you are racist. Does criticism of Israel then mean that you are anti-semitic? Of course not.

The Taliban and other extremist Muslim organizations say, "In Islam, you are supposed to cover your head and face. Conform or we'll throw acid on your face". How is that not a religious-motivated issue? You're just quibbling.

When almost all the Belgian parliament as well as the highest elected body in France vote to ban the burqa, then it ceases to be more than just a far-right pandering.

Besides, the discrimination that non-Muslims face in most Muslim countries dwarfs anything that happens in Europe. Most of them have declared themselves Islamic republics and automatically made non-Muslims who have resided there for generations second-class citizens. There is just no comparison. At the very least, the Eastern Europeans do not have to fear for their lives.

 

[CanOWorms]

The Taliban and other extremist Muslim organizations say, "In Islam, you are supposed to cover your head and face. Conform or we'll throw acid on your face". How is that not a religious-motivated issue? You're just quibbling.

Is that the motivation? I thought it was related to family honor.

When almost all the Belgian parliament as well as the highest elected body in France vote to ban the burqa, then it ceases to be more than just a far-right pandering.

It IS pandering to the far-right. It's just that the ideology of the far-right has entered into the mainstream and become accepted. Most analysis on Sarkozy's veil obsession say that he is pandering to the far-right votes.

Besides, the discrimination that non-Muslims face in most Muslim countries dwarfs anything that happens in Europe. Most of them have declared themselves Islamic republics and automatically made non-Muslims who have resided there for generations second-class citizens. There is just no comparison. At the very least, the Eastern Europeans do not have to fear for their lives.

That's nice, but irrelevant.

 

[tvarad]

Is that the motivation? I thought it was related to family honor.

"Three sisters have suffered serious facial burns after two unidentified men on a motorbike threw acid at them in Pakistan's Balochistan province."

I would suggest you put your visual faculty to better use.

It IS pandering to the far-right. It's just that the ideology of the far-right has entered into the mainstream and become accepted. Most analysis on Sarkozy's veil obsession say that he is pandering to the far-right votes.

That's what bleeding-heart liberals would like one to believe, especially because a mass of perpetually disgruntled citizenry trained to think that the govt. should play a nanny role is a leftist vote-bank. What you have now is the consequence of an immigration policy that has not thought through the consequences of people plucking themselves out of basket-case societies and plopping themselves in the middle of Europe, and those in-charge of said immigration policy not making an iota of effort to train them into integrating into an alien society. The European mainstream is finally taking notice of this. Politicians are followers and they have sensed it, which is why a mainstream politician like Sarkozy has decided to act.

That's nice, but irrelevant.

As every piece of factual evidence is to you. Sheesh.

 

[tvarad]

There are many articles on the issue of the burqa and obviously a lot of reaction to these articles. The following letter from a British diplomat to one such article caught my eye and describes succinctly why the burqa, more than any other piece of ethnic garb, carries such an anti-social message:

Diplomatic incident
Knight reflects what many of us feel: we want to let people wear what they want but we have this uncomfortable feeling when confronted with Muslim dress. And I include the male dress as well as the burqa. I don’t feel this way about the sari or the turban.

I was an air adviser in the UK high commission in India in the 1990s, and so I lived and worked with Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists etc. I could enjoy socialising with everyone except the Muslims.

My wife and I learnt that when we were invited to Muslim houses. I started going alone after some inhospitable experiences: my wife would be sent to the kitchen with the women. An invitation to the Iranian embassy always excluded women. Everyone except the Muslims rubbed along well together.

When I see a burqa, I see a Muslim saying: you have to adapt to me. I never get this feeling when I see ladies in saris or a Sikh turban. No one can deny that the way we dress sends a message.

John Bell
Attenborough, Nottinghamshire

 

[CanOWorms]

"Three sisters have suffered serious facial burns after two unidentified men on a motorbike threw acid at them in Pakistan's Balochistan province."

I would suggest you put your visual faculty to better use.

Sorry, I didn't read your post with the article. Even then, it says that there are 150 acid attacks in Pakistan. That would imply a tremendously smaller number in Europe. It appears to be a subject that is over exaggerated, very similar to Nazi strategies to demonize minority groups.

That's what bleeding-heart liberals would like one to believe, especially because a mass of perpetually disgruntled citizenry trained to think that the govt. should play a nanny role is a leftist vote-bank. What you have now is the consequence of an immigration policy that has not thought through the consequences of people plucking themselves out of basket-case societies and plopping themselves in the middle of Europe, and those in-charge of said immigration policy not making an iota of effort to train them into integrating into an alien society. The European mainstream is finally taking notice of this. Politicians are followers and they have sensed it, which is why a mainstream politician like Sarkozy has decided to act.

Yes, they've decided to act, which is unfortunate since it's on a road to genocide.

As every piece of factual evidence is to you. Sheesh.

I fail to see how it's relevant. It's the typical far-right avoidance strategy of "hey, look at that over there"