Belgium - First country to ban burqa?

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
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Walking around Paris and some of the other cities of France over the past couple of weeks, going to the street markets, visiting neighborhoods apart from the usual tourist landmarks, I found a larger number of women wearing burqas than even in the past year.

In great part this is because many cities of Europe are being taken over demographically by Muslim immigrants, both legal and not.

This UK article goes over the trend and touches on the significance of such a major population shift to Europa -

Muslim Europe: the demographic time bomb transforming our continent

Are the countries of Europe, at risk of losing their national identities, finally taking action to forcibly assimilate these populations that have thus far failed to integrate much at all into the society of their adopted lands?

The Belgians, the French, the Dutch and others are looking askance at the results of their liberal immigration policies. Similar to the debate on enfranchising illegal immigrants here in the United States, the Europeans are considering the severe consequences of unenforced immigration laws.

The evident manifestation of the encroachment of Muslim populations in Europe is the proliferation of burqa on the streets of major European cities. In response, European governments are attempting to address both security concerns and cultural integration issues, and the public wearing of burqa is being targeted.

Here in America we ourselves have a noticeable urban American contingent of burqa wearers. In places like Philadelphia, Washington, DC and Detroit, these are not foreign or immigrant Muslim women - they tend to dress stylishly with a European sensibility or in student casual jeans. The great majority are Americans making a statement, sometimes a religious statement, but just as often an overtly hostile statement against the character of American society. Do you doubt this? Ask them yourself.

Some devout Muslim women here are fully supportive of the physical anonymity and the religious significance of the burqa. Zerqa Abid writes an interesting blog about life as a Muslim in the United States and expresses her traditional feelings about burqa.

But others use the burqa to intimidate, and do so with an urban character much, much different than the Muslims of Europe.

The size of the population here that wears burqa is insignificant compared to Europe. And America, in and of its very nature, is a nation of immigrants, where diversity, though often resisted, ultimately makes us who we are.

Europe is a different place, facing different circumstances, but we should still watch what happens there for it may be a harbinger of what might, under different guise, happen here in our own debate over legitimizing illegal immigration.
Belgium moves to become first European country to ban the burka

Daily Mail (UK)
31st March 2010


article-1262545-023C9059000005DC-915_233x417.jpg
Potential outlaw: Burka wearers could be jailed if they are caught in public

Belgium is on the verge of becoming the first European nation to ban the burka.

A parliamentary committee agreed yesterday to outlaw the wearing of face-covering veils in public. The full Parliament will vote later this month.

Under the proposals, women could face a week in prison or a fine for wearing a veil in public.

There are an estimated 650,000 Muslims in Belgium – 6 per cent of the population.

The text of the new law does not specifically mention burkas but makes it illegal for anyone to wear clothing ‘that covers all or most of the face’ in any public place.

Left-wing MP Denis Ducarme left no doubt the rules were targeting-Muslim extremists.

He said after the vote by the home affairs committee: ‘This sends a very strong signal to radical Islamists.’

The French-speaking liberals (Note: the use of the word liberal here is the European traditional meaning, here in the US we might use the word libertarian or conservative - PJABBER) who have proposed the law argue that an inability to identify people presents a security risk and that the veil is a ‘walking prison’ for women.

Daniel Bacquelaine, the bill’s chief promoter, said the ban might also be used against potentially violent demonstrators who covered their faces.

He estimated that only a few hundred women in Belgium wore facial veils, but said it was a rising trend.

The MP said Belgium did not wish to follow the ‘bad examples’ of Britain and the Netherlands, where he said many Muslims lived in separate communities.

The proposal is expected to become law as early as June as it has the support of all five parties in the coalition government. But opponents may appeal to the European Court of Human Rights.

There have been debates over banning the burka in France, Switzerland and Italy.

This week France’s highest administrative body said a full burka ban, which is supported by all political parties, could violate the French constitution and European law.

Brussels has been linked to Islamic extremist terror operations a number of times since September 11. In 2003, 18 men were convicted of involvement in a terror cell with links to Al Qaeda.
 
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her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
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The text of the new law does not specifically mention burkas but makes it illegal for anyone to wear clothing ‘that covers all or most of the face’ in any public place.
LOL... does this exclude ski slopes?
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
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LOL... does this exclude ski slopes?

The only skiing I ever did in Belgium when I lived in Brussels was cross country. Why bother with the inadequate slopes of places like Mont des Brumes when the Alps are so close?

Maybe they will exclude face masks for winter sports in the final legislation?

:D
 

Albatross

Platinum Member
Jul 17, 2001
2,344
8
81
The Europeans refuse to understand that they have a choice: Jesus or Allah.
This BS law is treating the symptoms;how can the weak gods of prosperity or the chauvinism of GDP/capita can compete with the powerful Allah?
''People in those old times had convictions; we moderns only have opinions. And it needs more than a mere opinion to erect a Gothic cathedral
''
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
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It's another European step towards genocide. Belgium has been at the forefront of that movement for years.

The results of their bigotry is not confined within Belgium. The anti-Americanism in Europe combined with constant oppression and denigration of minority groups there leads to radicalization and attacks against the United States. See 9/11 and the radicalization in Germany. Prevention of another 9/11 will require the capturing/attacking of the Belgian government.

The biggest threat to the United States is Europe. The military must be put to its use.

The proposal is expected to become law as early as June as it has the support of all five parties in the coalition government. But opponents may appeal to the European Court of Human Rights.

Good luck, the European Court of Human Rights has repeatedly ruled against minority groups. It's a champion of far-right causes.
 

Chaotic42

Lifer
Jun 15, 2001
34,653
1,826
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It's another European step towards genocide. Belgium has been at the forefront of that movement for years.

The results of their bigotry is not confined within Belgium. The anti-Americanism in Europe combined with constant oppression and denigration of minority groups there leads to radicalization and attacks against the United States. See 9/11 and the radicalization in Germany. Prevention of another 9/11 will require the capturing/attacking of the Belgian government.

The biggest threat to the United States is Europe. The military must be put to its use.



Good luck, the European Court of Human Rights has repeatedly ruled against minority groups. It's a champion of far-right causes.

I know that I am going to regret jumping in here, but what the hell. I like to try and argue different points to figure out where my feelings really stand, and I've wondered this myself:

Should a freedom-loving society allow a freedom-hating society use that freedom to take over and in the end destroy the freedom-loving society from within? Is it the freedom-loving society's duty to ensure freedom *now* at any cost, or is it to ensure the longest lasting balance of freedom for the most people?

I'm not saying that the muslims hate freedom or that the Belgians love it, it just seems like an appropriate thread.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,575
9,827
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This ban is only temporary, I can assure you of that.

Banning Islamic practices while allowing its people to stay is merely a matter of represenation. Their numbers will increase and then burqas will be the least of your concerns.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
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The text of the new law does not specifically mention burkas but makes it illegal for anyone to wear clothing ‘that covers all or most of the face’ in any public place.

Sounds a lot like the US.

http://publicdefenderdude.blogspot.com/2005/05/man-arrested-for-wearing-mask-in.html
Incredible as it may seem, it is illegal to wear a mask in public in West Virginia. When I talk about the pervasiveness of the police industrial complex, this is exactly what I'm talking about. The police note that tinted windows are also illegal, as they hinder law enforcement.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2458572/posts
A Tampa man faces charges after a deputy spotted him walking in a clown mask. According to jail records, the man was arrested Tuesday and charged with wearing a mask or hood on a public road over the age of 16


In general, it's often illegal to hide your identity. Having a tinted driver side front window of the car is illegal where I live. In many places, wearing a mask in public is illegal. The idea is that only criminals try to hide their face, and from what I've seen, that's probably true to some degree. People trying to steal shit from Best Buy were usually wearing a baseball cap to cover part of their face, and they kept their head down. We caught several people trying to steal CDs and they all dressed like that. Other employees even stated that was exactly what I should be looking for - people hiding their face and avoiding eye contact.
 
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CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
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Sounds a lot like the US.

http://publicdefenderdude.blogspot.com/2005/05/man-arrested-for-wearing-mask-in.html


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2458572/posts



In general, it's often illegal to hide your identity. Having a tinted driver side front window of the car is illegal where I live. In many places, wearing a mask in public is illegal. The idea is that only criminals try to hide their face, and from what I've seen, that's probably true to some degree. People trying to steal shit from Best Buy were usually wearing a baseball cap to cover part of their face, and they kept their head down. We caught several people trying to steal CDs and they all dressed like that. Other employees even stated that was exactly what I should be looking for - people hiding their face and avoiding eye contact.

The history behind this legislation clearly shows a discriminatory intent against a minority group historically under assault and threat from genocide by the government. There would be no article or outrage if they generally passed some law banning masks.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
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There would be no article or outrage if they generally passed some law banning masks.
I can agree with this.

Also, remember that it's not just fascists who want burqas banned. A lot of feminists support a ban on burqas, and many of those women are muslims. I remember one on TV describing it as being a symbol of oppression. If I remember correctly, the woman arguing this was a muslim woman born in Iran who stopped wearing her veil when she moved to Canada.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
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Maybe next they will ban all skirts and dresses that are above the knee. It is odd when a country starts banning one type of clothing.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,621
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Muslims are what we hate about ourselves. They are monsters of our own creation. If you don't love Muslims you aren't going to love yourself. Same for the folk who hate Europeans, Nazis, etc. It's all the result of mental illness. Naturally, however, people don't really like being told they are mentally ill, and particularly so when they are.
 

heyheybooboo

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2007
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The history behind this legislation clearly shows a discriminatory intent against a minority group historically under assault and threat from genocide by the government. There would be no article or outrage if they generally passed some law banning masks.

Not quite sure where you are going with this, but the reason it is illegal in many states for anyone ""to wear clothing that covers all or most of the face in any public place"" is because of the KKKluckers.




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Mani

Diamond Member
Aug 9, 2001
4,808
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Is the Burqa a religious or cultural thing? i.e. is it mandated in the Koran?
 

bigpimpatl

Senior member
Jul 11, 2005
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Is the Burqa a religious or cultural thing? i.e. is it mandated in the Koran?

In many places It is very much a cultural thing.

Different muslim countries have different expectations and views, and I'm glad you asked and if I am wrong someone else can chime in and correct me. Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, and to some extent Pakistan view have populations that believe that burqa should be worn at all times during public. Countries like Egypt, the Palestinian Authority (my personal experience), Lebanon, et al have very much a mix of attitudes. In Egypt I noticed a very small small amount of women wearing the full burqa covering; however I did see most women wearing a simple headscarf. I have a gut feeling that the same exists in most ME countries.

The Koran makes no specific reference to burqa, or even hijab (headscarf). However, female modesty is heavily emphasized and depending on who you ask, you will get an answer that directly reflects a personal belief and/or a level of religiosity.

IMO the burqa is being worn as a statement by women who are very much against the "liberalization" of women as sexual objects and toys. You don't have to walk too far out of your house to know what I'm talking about: billboards, newspapers, ads, magazines, television, movies etc. Heck, a third of all internet traffic is pornography!
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,270
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Countries that have allowed supposed tolerance and diversity to trump rational thought and common sense are starting to see the problems that having a big portion of the population adhere to beliefs that simply do not gel with a free society bring. They're starting to react (France, Switzerland, Netherlands, Belgium etc). It's about time.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
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One of the main reasons to get rid of the burqa is not because the face is covered up but because other things like exploding suicide vests knives and firearms can also be covered up. It also makes shoplifting easier. You can wear modest clothing without a Burqa.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
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Okay, all I have to say to this thread is WTF at many of the posters.

Look, I have no problem as an American to what any European country wants to do as long as it doesn't involve killing people. It's their country and if the people there want to ban an article of clothing, prevent immigration from certain areas of the world, or force everyone to wear a purple shirt on Tuesdays then more power to them I suppose.

As for Belgium and aniti-Americanism... WTF??? The person that made that statement, have you ever been there? Holy crap, I have and a few good friends of mine took a nice European trip to there, Denmark, and Prague. During my visit and people I know, they are all very polite, nice, and never once did I see or hear about any anti-Americanism. Now, if you are talking about the French, that is something completely different. But the Belgium people still love us. Unlike the French, they remember that we saved their bacon in WW2 and don't resent us for that.


Also, I am not a fan of the burqa for women personally. While I don't believe it's right, here in the US I'll defend the right of any person that wants to wear one. Not that I won't try to convince people to not wear them, but if they really want to, oh well. As for European countries, if they want to ban them, so be it.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
32,181
50,974
136
Okay, all I have to say to this thread is WTF at many of the posters.

Look, I have no problem as an American to what any European country wants to do as long as it doesn't involve killing people. It's their country and if the people there want to ban an article of clothing, prevent immigration from certain areas of the world, or force everyone to wear a purple shirt on Tuesdays then more power to them I suppose.

As for Belgium and aniti-Americanism... WTF??? The person that made that statement, have you ever been there? Holy crap, I have and a few good friends of mine took a nice European trip to there, Denmark, and Prague. During my visit and people I know, they are all very polite, nice, and never once did I see or hear about any anti-Americanism. Now, if you are talking about the French, that is something completely different. But the Belgium people still love us. Unlike the French, they remember that we saved their bacon in WW2 and don't resent us for that.


Also, I am not a fan of the burqa for women personally. While I don't believe it's right, here in the US I'll defend the right of any person that wants to wear one. Not that I won't try to convince people to not wear them, but if they really want to, oh well. As for European countries, if they want to ban them, so be it.

CanOfWorms is a troll, best to ignore him