Beggar at 7 Eleven today

[Corporate Thug]

I am just telling you the way it is.

He hates being bothered constantly for money. You can't walk 20 feet downtown without someone asking for money. Some have attacked those who won't give them money. Many now refuse to go downtown because of it.

So you can see why some people seem heartless.

I help out homeless people when I can. I don't give them money because it doesn't go to food or shelter, but to booze and drugs and smokes.

We have a decent social safety net here, so begging is unnecessary, unless you have a vice that needs a fix.

People have their reasons for disliking beggars.

Trust me dude, I get it. I used to live in Downtown San Francisco. There are a RIDICULOUS amount of beggers in the area and they get quite annoying (even more so since most are on drugs). BUT there is a huge difference between not giving them money/avoiding them versus taking money from them.

 

[ixelion]

How do you not take a brainless no skill required job paying $15 per hour

holy fuck, I get only slightly more than doing actual skilled work. How is this even possible.

 

[yuchai]

I cant count how many times(over 500) i offered beggers(not the nasty ones but the cleaner ones) a job for a day possibly longer if they performed well to come do some grunt work, we paid the temps $15 a hour so it wasnt like it was bad money, do that for a few weeks or months and it would be enough to get you back on your feet. Out of the 500+ people i offered jobs to only 1 ever took me up on it and he ended up being a solid employee, but every other one turned me down.

How do you not take a brainless no skill required job paying $15 per hour when you are homeless living on the street, answer is you are worthless scum that dosnt deserve to live.

You didn't stop asking after, say, the 50th guy who turned you down?

 

[Ichinisan]

I remember a couple of years ago I was driving through Wyoming with one of my best friends and my girlfriend. My friend has been a lifelong, die-hard Christian, conservative, old school guy. Incredibly good-natured and likable though, to meet him is to instantly be his friend. Great guy.

And I was always the atheist super-liberal, so we disagreed on most things. We still got along, and were even roommates for a while. You'd have to be a strange person indeed to not get along with him.

So back to Wyoming... he was working on a llama farm out there, (that's his job part of the year, the rest of the year he pumps fuel in Antarctica) and he got out of the car with me as we're gassing up my vehicle at this remote Wyoming gas station.

A group of grungy hippy type teenagers come up to us with an empty gas can and start begging for gas or money or what have you. Now, I was in the very apex of my bleeding-heart liberal phase (which consisted of 99% of my life) - and had I been there alone, the chances I'd have helped them with some cash would have been very high.

My friend would have none of it and engaged them in conversation for a good few minutes, unflinchingly looking right into their eyes and confronting them with things like "sounds like you didn't have a very good plan to drive cross country if you don't have money for gas?" etc etc, he got their back story from them and interrogated them, all in a completely polite, kind way but stern. He was using it as an opportunity to try to actually teach these kids something about responsibility, planning, etc.

Now, I was mostly embarrassed and felt bad for them. Part of me admired his approach... but as I said I was still firmly in the grips of my liberal haze.

I've seen changed a great deal and now my respect for his approach has skyrocketed. I realize now, this mindset is KEY to raising good kids, and having a long term viable civilization. All that shit about "tough love" etc, and the people I dismissed my whole life as being cold-hearted assholes because they railed against affirmative action and welfare, etc etc... they were fucking completely right the entire time. I see it now very clearly.

I don't get a chance to talk to him often and he doesn't know yet that I have undergone a dramatic realignment of my views, I'll have to tell him soon. I just got some texts yesterday from a former shipmate on my submarine who was a die-hard conservative who I had some good debates with while we were out to sea... and I informed him of my conversion. I wouldn't call myself conservative now, exactly... but definitely not liberal anymore. He was very happy for me. People such as them helped me see how intelligent, and aware conservatives can be. I had always dismissed them as uneducated, etc.

I had a lot to learn. Even in my 30's.

Sorry for the long-windedness it's how I roll and this thread reminded me of that incident.

You might be transforming into a libertarian.

 

[mmntech]

In NYC, bums that ask for money aren't bums.

They're deadbeats that think they are too good to work a normal job that all the shelters offer them. They're too good to listen to basic rules that the shelters offer in exchange for a warm bed and help to move on with their lives. These people simply want to do nothing yet enjoy all the fruits that hard work gives a man.

Same in Toronto. Except some of them actually do lead normal lives outside their "job". If 1000 people pass you in an hour and ten give you a dollar, you're already making minimum wage tax free, doing basically nothing. Better than working your ass off at Tim Hortons.

 

[Geosurface]

You might be transforming into a libertarian.

I think that's probably right.

 

[Rifter]

holy fuck, I get only slightly more than doing actual skilled work. How is this even possible.

It was 10 years ago before the fall of the economy. Around here $15 for grunt warehouse work was low at the time, i actually left my manager job at that company to work in a cold/frozen storage warehouse as a simple order picker, for $25-29 a hour depending on my speed(was a heavily weighted performance bonus payscale). I was only making $23 as a manager.

 

[Rifter]

You didn't stop asking after, say, the 50th guy who turned you down?

No i consistantly offered beggers temp jobs for the 4 years i worked there, hoping that i could at least help a few people get back on their feet. Would never do that now that i know whats going on and that they are worthless leeches. My view on society has changed dramtically since then.

 

[sactoking]

My two stories:

I was in Dallas walking home from a party and I got lost. After a bit I knew I was in trouble, so I put my hands in my pockets and emptied out my wallet of everything (without taking it out of the pocket) and slid it into my hidden coat pocket, so if I got mugged I could throw an empty wallet at the guy and run. Well, after a couple of blocks a guy comes running up to me and says "Don't worry, I'm not going to rob you." I knew this was going to be good. Anyway, he was homeless and got locked out of the shelter and just wanted a hot meal. We chatted for a few seconds and I got the gut feeling that he was legit. I told him "I want to respect your humanity, so I'll give you a trade. You help me find my way back to my hotel and I'll buy you a hot meal and give you all of the cash I have left." He agreed, it took us about an hour to find our way, he got a meal and about $20, and he thanked me for helping him retain some dignity.

My wife works for a local charity and is pretty plugged into the community. We have a ton of female panhandlers here and they pretty much all claim to be victims of domestic abuse. My wife will often roll down her window and ask if they have tried the Advocates to End Domestic Violence. Depending on their answer, she does one of three things:
1) If they say no, she gives them the contact address;
2) If they say yes, but they were full she gives them the contact address for her charity; or
3) If they say something like "My husband knows where that is and he'll find me" she kindly responds "You've been standing in a parking lot in public for x amount of time, if your husband wanted to find you he would have. AEDV has several safe houses throughout town that your husband does not know about. You're lying and I won't enable you."

 

[tcsenter]

I've seen changed a great deal and now my respect for his approach has skyrocketed. I realize now, this mindset is KEY to raising good kids, and having a long term viable civilization. All that shit about "tough love" etc, and the people I dismissed my whole life as being cold-hearted assholes because they railed against affirmative action and welfare, etc etc... they were fucking completely right the entire time. I see it now very clearly.

What a fantastic man. Can you imagine the "impact" or "influence" he could've had on folks had he been around during the Dust Bowl and Great Depression?

"Sir, we've lost our farm and we're moving to California to work the fields there. We haven't eaten in two days and my wife's real sick. Do you think you might be able to spare a few gallons of gasoline to get us to the next town? We have some family there who might be able to help us."

"Well now, let's consider all the poor planning that must have been required to culminate into your current situation, shall we? Starting with having those children even though you didn't have enough funds to support their needs all the way through the age of 18...."

Shit there were desperate people broken down all over the highways into California during the Dust Bowl. Some people literally died on the side of the road, like in India and shit. He could have had a field day driving up and down some stretches of highway, shaking his finger and telling them how poor their planning was.

Lessons become self-evident to persons at some point, usually after something goes wrong. Some smarmy fucking asswipe giving them a lecture on where they went wrong is not going to help anyone except stroke his own ego.

 

[CZroe]

What a fantastic man. Can you imagine the "impact" or "influence" he could've had on folks had he been around during the Dust Bowl and Great Depression?

"Sir, we've lost our farm and we're moving to California to work the fields there. We haven't eaten in two days and my wife's real sick. Do you think you might be able to spare a few gallons of gasoline to get us to the next town? We have some family there who might be able to help us."

"Well now, let's consider all the poor planning that must have been required to culminate into your current situation, shall we? Starting with having those children even though you didn't have enough funds to support their needs all the way through the age of 18...."

Shit there were desperate people broken down all over the highways into California during the Dust Bowl. Some people literally died on the side of the road, like in India and shit. He could have had a field day driving up and down some stretches of highway, shaking his finger and telling them how poor their planning was.

Lessons become self-evident to persons at some point, usually after something goes wrong. Some smarmy fucking asswipe giving them a lecture on where they went wrong is not going to help anyone except stroke his own ego.

People who own cars don't go on a cross-country trip with no clue how to get gas unless they expect you to pay their way. They have a car. A CAR. They aren't desperate or destitute and yet they left expecting to take advantage of YOU?

 

[Fenixgoon]

i ran into the dollar store the other day and a guy said he needed food for his family. incidentally, i had just gone grocery shopping. i told him i would give him food, but i had no money. he said he needed a ride home too - that's where i drew the line. he ended up not taking any food despite claiming to need some. i had bags which he could have carried (it sounded like he didn't live *that* far away).

 

[tcsenter]

People who own cars don't go on a cross-country trip with no clue how to get gas unless they expect you to pay their way. They have a car. A CAR. They aren't desperate or destitute and yet they left expecting to take advantage of YOU?

OK, so the Dust Bowl and Great Depression never happened. Check! People never get mugged or have their money/wallets stolen. Check! People never have an unexpected repair problem that consumes most or all of their money. Check! People never get pulled-over in some speed trap and are required to pay the fine in full before leaving the jurisdiction. Check! Bands never get stiffed by clubs or bars after performing. Check! People never get promised work hundreds or thousands of miles away but then after driving there, are told "Sorry, we hired someone else or there is no work here." Check! I could go on and on, including the common first-time mistake of underestimating the total costs of a trip (which surely you and Mr. Conservative guy would never do because people like you never make mistakes out of inexperience or naivety, even when you were young), but I'm guessing you're not going to let facts or reason influence your opinion.

 

[BUTCH1]

I hate beggers, like absolutly hate them and hope they all end up dead, they are nothing but worthless scum, like leeches. Completly worthless to society. They dont even want jobs or to have to work they just want a easy handout.

I used to think that they were just people who fell on hard times and were trying to get back on their feet, but then i got a job as a warehouse manager and my view of them completly changed.

I took the light rail transit to work and got off in downtown vancouver to take a quick bus to work so ran into 100's of beggers a day at the transit stations and bus stops. And I worked for a very poorly managed company and we were constantly moving stock from one building to the next and assembling and dissasembaling racking, as well as unloading containers. So i was constantly using those labour ready type businesses to get 1-4 general labourers per day to do the grunt work so my FL operators and pickers/shippers could focus on their work and not have to do the grunt tasks.

I cant count how many times(over 500) i offered beggers(not the nasty ones but the cleaner ones) a job for a day possibly longer if they performed well to come do some grunt work, we paid the temps $15 a hour so it wasnt like it was bad money, do that for a few weeks or months and it would be enough to get you back on your feet. Out of the 500+ people i offered jobs to only 1 ever took me up on it and he ended up being a solid employee, but every other one turned me down.

How do you not take a brainless no skill required job paying $15 per hour when you are homeless living on the street, answer is you are worthless scum that dosnt deserve to live.

Shens, never heard of ANYONE paying $15/hr for temp labor and you really asked 500 people and all but one turned you down? I don't believe it..

 

[Puppies04]

Shens, never heard of ANYONE paying $15/hr for temp labor and you really asked 500 people and all but one turned you down? I don't believe it..

He already answered this a few posts up, and trust me a lot (not all but a lot) of homeless people don't want to work. Next time a begger asks you for money offer them $10 an hour for doing 8 hours gardening for you and see what they say.

 

[eits]

i give change to homeless people. when i have the opportunity, i buy them food instead of giving them change.

 

[PeeluckyDuckee]

In the winter time when I get off work I'd grab a coffee or hot chocolate (free where I work) and if I see a beggar on the street on my way home and it's really cold I'd offer them my beverage. Rarely do I ever hand over money.

 

[Doppel]

I'd be careful being unkind to these people even just for your own safety. It's a fact that many (most?) homeless people have some mental issues and who knows what the hell one is going to do to you. I've seen them ranting and raving before to invisible people. Just don't want to antagonize them.

 

[Geosurface]

What a fantastic man. Can you imagine the "impact" or "influence" he could've had on folks had he been around during the Dust Bowl and Great Depression?

"Sir, we've lost our farm and we're moving to California to work the fields there. We haven't eaten in two days and my wife's real sick. Do you think you might be able to spare a few gallons of gasoline to get us to the next town? We have some family there who might be able to help us."

"Well now, let's consider all the poor planning that must have been required to culminate into your current situation, shall we? Starting with having those children even though you didn't have enough funds to support their needs all the way through the age of 18...."

Shit there were desperate people broken down all over the highways into California during the Dust Bowl. Some people literally died on the side of the road, like in India and shit. He could have had a field day driving up and down some stretches of highway, shaking his finger and telling them how poor their planning was.

Lessons become self-evident to persons at some point, usually after something goes wrong. Some smarmy fucking asswipe giving them a lecture on where they went wrong is not going to help anyone except stroke his own ego.

Well actually he is a fantastic guy, and as I said he talked to them and got their whole story before he said anything negative.

They were early 20's stoners in a VW bug who had never had any plan other than mooching - they had successfully mooched their gas from I think Massachusetts all the way to Wyoming and he wasn't a dick about it, you'd have to know him but he came off much more like a kind older brother than a dick.

Dust bowl or depression refugees, these were not. Situations like that are another matter.

 

[Rifter]

Shens, never heard of ANYONE paying $15/hr for temp labor and you really asked 500 people and all but one turned you down? I don't believe it..

Then you are a idiot, whats so hard to understand about it. Min wage was over 10$ a hour at the time. All the labour ready/instant labourer type companies take a large(30-40%) cut of the money we paid out for themselves to provide their service so to get a worker who was only getting paid min wage himself cost our comany about $15 a hour(10$ and change to labourer to meet min wage and then the cut to labour comany).

So when we hired friends of current employee's we paid them $15 a hour as well as thats what we were paying out to labour ready anyways so cost to company was thye same but any non labour ready temps just ended up with more money in their pockets.

I really dont see why you are having such a hard time grasping such a simple concept.

 

[Ichinisan]

What a fantastic man. Can you imagine the "impact" or "influence" he could've had on folks had he been around during the Dust Bowl and Great Depression?

"Sir, we've lost our farm and we're moving to California to work the fields there. We haven't eaten in two days and my wife's real sick. Do you think you might be able to spare a few gallons of gasoline to get us to the next town? We have some family there who might be able to help us."

"Well now, let's consider all the poor planning that must have been required to culminate into your current situation, shall we? Starting with having those children even though you didn't have enough funds to support their needs all the way through the age of 18...."

Shit there were desperate people broken down all over the highways into California during the Dust Bowl. Some people literally died on the side of the road, like in India and shit. He could have had a field day driving up and down some stretches of highway, shaking his finger and telling them how poor their planning was.

Lessons become self-evident to persons at some point, usually after something goes wrong. Some smarmy fucking asswipe giving them a lecture on where they went wrong is not going to help anyone except stroke his own ego.

You missed the point. He exposed their lie. They were traveling across the country with a plan to mooch off of gullible people to get gas. They just kept finding people they could take advantage of. If his questions revealed that there was a valid/believable reason, he probably would have shown some generosity.

 

[Ichinisan]

OK, so the Dust Bowl and Great Depression never happened. Check! People never get mugged or have their money/wallets stolen. Check! People never have an unexpected repair problem that consumes most or all of their money. Check! People never get pulled-over in some speed trap and are required to pay the fine in full before leaving the jurisdiction. Check! Bands never get stiffed by clubs or bars after performing. Check! People never get promised work hundreds or thousands of miles away but then after driving there, are told "Sorry, we hired someone else or there is no work here." Check! I could go on and on, including the common first-time mistake of underestimating the total costs of a trip (which surely you and Mr. Conservative guy would never do because people like you never make mistakes out of inexperience or naivety, even when you were young), but I'm guessing you're not going to let facts or reason influence your opinion.

All of those would be valid / believable stories. Those kids did not present a valid/believable story. They were simply leeching off the generosity of others.

 

[CZroe]

OK, so the Dust Bowl and Great Depression never happened. Check!

They have nothing to with teenagers expecting you to pay for gas.

People never get mugged or have their money/wallets stolen. Check!

That wasn't their story at all.

People never have an unexpected repair problem that consumes most or all of their money. Check!

That wasn't part of their plan NOR reality. You don't just make up a backstory that excuses their request when they are standing right in front of you and capable of responding to inquiry. Fact is, an excuse like that is more often a lie. When they don't even go as far as giving you an explanation like that and just ask you to help their poorly-planned trip, it's much more likely the truth. "My wife is in the hospital having a baby and I ran out of gas on the ramp back there and I left my wallet at the office" may be air-tight as far as questions, but I've heard it from 10 different people and know it's bogus.

People never get pulled-over in some speed trap and are required to pay the fine in full before leaving the jurisdiction. Check!

That wasn't their story at all and, well, not that I've heard of. Sounds like something from a Central American country that should be illegal (extortion + guilty before proven innocent).

Bands never get stiffed by clubs or bars after performing. Check!

That wasn't their story at all.

People never get promised work hundreds or thousands of miles away but then after driving there, are told "Sorry, we hired someone else or there is no work here." Check!

That wasn't their story at all and, no, you don't drive "thousands of miles" without some guarantee. Duh.

I could go on and on, including the common first-time mistake of underestimating the total costs of a trip (which surely you and Mr. Conservative guy would never do because people like you never make mistakes out of inexperience or naivety, even when you were young),

That wasn't their story at all.

but I'm guessing you're not going to let facts or reason influence your opinion.

Wow. Read your own words. Now: Find the applicable "facts" in your scenarios that had nothing to do with these kids.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

You might be transforming into a libertarian.

Socially liberal, economically conservative is the only thing he has described. Maybe conservative raising of children too?

But how you got libertarian at is beyond me...

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Also, I giggle everytime I see beggers - Everytime there is always the sign... "ANYTHING (keyword) Helps". Hand them a bag of chips or food from your car, they don't tear it open and immediately chow down in starvation. They put it on the side of the road - plenty leave it there too. They want cash and only cash. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves. It's right next to the pity of having a child next to you in an effort to make you feel bad for them - and it's disgusting. I pity anyone stupid enough to support this. And I would honestly like to see people publicly lynched for bringing innocent children into such despicable acts.

To anyone that offers to give them food / a hot meal? By all means, that is fine - and it is commendable on your part. Anyone else? Including giving them the loose change in your vehicle... You're a dumbass.