Before you go and buy a conroe.. think about this

[Giffen]

The AM2 was the AMD chip for this cpu cycle, any new chips will not be out for another cycle which will most likely be 6months + from now.

AMD dropped the ball because they thought Intel's Conroe wouldn't be out for at least 3 more months which would have given them the chance to get closer to release of their next chip. With the pr machine chugging along, they could try and get consumers to wait another 2 to 3 months for their chip instead...

 

[Pederv]

Originally posted by: Giffen
The AM2 was the AMD chip for this cpu cycle, any new chips will not be out for another cycle which will most likely be 6months + from now.

AMD dropped the ball because they thought Intel's Conroe wouldn't be out for at least 3 more months which would have given them the chance to get closer to release of their next chip. With the pr machine chugging along, they could try and get consumers to wait another 2 to 3 months for their chip instead...

I look around the forums, I see people complaining about how they can't find the C2D they want or it's too high priced. Taking a look at the OEM's (Dell, HP, etc.) I see each OEM has one, maybe two, C2D systems available. That's a long way from market dominance, more like a drop in the bucket. It's still gonna be the end of the year before Intel has the C2D making up 25% of its product line. Plenty of time to introduce the 4X4 and hope it can find a market.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: Giffen
The AM2 was the AMD chip for this cpu cycle, any new chips will not be out for another cycle which will most likely be 6months + from now.

AMD dropped the ball because they thought Intel's Conroe wouldn't be out for at least 3 more months which would have given them the chance to get closer to release of their next chip. With the pr machine chugging along, they could try and get consumers to wait another 2 to 3 months for their chip instead...

Unfortunately for Intel, Intel seems to be helping AMD along just fine, since they've got so little supply of the Coroes and, to a lesser extent, the Allendales.

 

[getbush]

Originally posted by: myocardia
Speaking of being paid by Intel, how long have you been an employee there? Four posts on this site, and at least three of them pertaining to this guy whom you've illegaly disclosed things from his employment at Intel. Hmm, I smell a rat. Please stop posting on this forum, unless you have something to add to a discussion, or some product knowledge to share.

And to the OP, get over it. Intel has finally retaken the performance crown, and will likely retain the performance lead for the next one to two years, minimum.

Get off his nuts. That sharikou guy is a total nutjob and deserves anything that is said about him. You don't have any authority to tell someone to stop posting on the boards. Go boss your sister around or something if you need to power trip.

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: myocardia

Originally posted by: StrangerGuy
4x4 is going to be a bust, K8L or not.

Well, there's no way for us to know for sure, but yeah, it looks like it to me.

I just don't get how anyone can say 4x4 is going to "be a bust" without knowing anything yet...
Will it allow for Torrenza (co-processor instead of a second CPU)?
Will AMD and ATI produce quad GPUs that use HT connects directly to the cache?
Will the next FX be a native quad core?
What's the price going to be?

4x4 has the potential to FAR exceed any Conroe platform that we know of, so until we know more there's no way to answer the question...

As an aside, I don't know if anyone here has ever been to a Virtual World, but the 4x4 has the potential of creating a dual homemade Tesla Pod like the ones they use there...just an example (and a dream of mine...).

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: Giffen
The AM2 was the AMD chip for this cpu cycle, any new chips will not be out for another cycle which will most likely be 6months + from now.

AMD dropped the ball because they thought Intel's Conroe wouldn't be out for at least 3 more months which would have given them the chance to get closer to release of their next chip. With the pr machine chugging along, they could try and get consumers to wait another 2 to 3 months for their chip instead...

The next chips will be Socket F Opterons next week, followed by the 65nm chips in Nov/Dec...

 

[zsdersw]

Assessments of the "potential" of 4x4 are as useless as assessments of its success or failure.

If we don't know anything about it, we don't know anything about it.. and *any* assessments of it are useless.

 

[Nightmare225]

Originally posted by: xtwells
AMD 4x4 is coming out soon.

Conroe e6600 - $400 or so, right?

X2 3800 - $150
take two of them - $300
OC all 4 cores to 2.5ghz

Pop them on a 4x4 motherboard, for 4 cores total.

Add in reverse multithreading.

Do you guys think that 4 cores acting as one can outperform any conroe solution out there? Cause I sure as hell do.

Furthermore, just remember that on these sockets or what not, they will be able to get stuff like video gpus, except performing a helluva lot faster because it's directly on the motherboard rather than on an expansion slot.

I really like conroe, but I'm waiting to see what 4X4 has in store.

The conroe X6800 supposedly has reverse multithreading, but that is the only one. I want to see reverse multithreading on 4 cores, spending as little as $300 for the cpus.. and probably beating the living crap out of a conroe ;/

Simply cause 4 > 2

;p

The X6800 is no different from the rest of the conroes except for unlocked multiplier and higher clock speed.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Flaws of "4 x 4":

1. The need of an FX chip - if you could throw in 3800+s then it'd be a killer deal, providing inexpensive dual CPU setups to enthusiasts.

2. The second 4 implies 4 GPUs, which is completely unnecessary if you're primarily concerned with CPU processing power. I?m interested in the CPU power, but would still only throw in a single GPU. You can easily throw in a 3800+, and if you know what you?re doing you can always overclock them to much higher levels, making them on par with chips several times their own value - a huge boon for enthusiasts. You simply can?t do the same with GPUs, thus the value is destroyed - you're best off with one really fast one (unless you?ve got the money to burn on 4 really fast ones)

 

[deeznuts]

Originally posted by: myocardia

Originally posted by: Giffen
The AM2 was the AMD chip for this cpu cycle, any new chips will not be out for another cycle which will most likely be 6months + from now.

AMD dropped the ball because they thought Intel's Conroe wouldn't be out for at least 3 more months which would have given them the chance to get closer to release of their next chip. With the pr machine chugging along, they could try and get consumers to wait another 2 to 3 months for their chip instead...

Unfortunately for Intel, Intel seems to be helping AMD along just fine, since they've got so little supply of the Coroes and, to a lesser extent, the Allendales.

Dude, they've been out for 3 days. August 7th.

 

[imported_inspire]

Originally posted by: Viditor

Originally posted by: myocardia

Originally posted by: StrangerGuy
4x4 is going to be a bust, K8L or not.

Well, there's no way for us to know for sure, but yeah, it looks like it to me.

I just don't get how anyone can say 4x4 is going to "be a bust" without knowing anything yet...
Will it allow for Torrenza (co-processor instead of a second CPU)?
Will AMD and ATI produce quad GPUs that use HT connects directly to the cache?
Will the next FX be a native quad core?
What's the price going to be?

4x4 has the potential to FAR exceed any Conroe platform that we know of, so until we know more there's no way to answer the question...

As an aside, I don't know if anyone here has ever been to a Virtual World, but the 4x4 has the potential of creating a dual homemade Tesla Pod like the ones they use there...just an example (and a dream of mine...).

I'd like to agree with you, viditor - mainly because I like AMD and I'm easily excitable. I just wish AMD wasn't being so hush-hush about the details of 4x4. Release dates are sketchy and right around the corner, and still we have very little to go on.

Side note - I know there is at least One Developer that is developing a game that will utilize 4x4.

 

[dmens]

Originally posted by: Viditor
I just don't get how anyone can say 4x4 is going to "be a bust" without knowing anything yet...
Will it allow for Torrenza (co-processor instead of a second CPU)?
Will AMD and ATI produce quad GPUs that use HT connects directly to the cache?
Will the next FX be a native quad core?
What's the price going to be?

4x4 has the potential to FAR exceed any Conroe platform that we know of, so until we know more there's no way to answer the question...

As an aside, I don't know if anyone here has ever been to a Virtual World, but the 4x4 has the potential of creating a dual homemade Tesla Pod like the ones they use there...just an example (and a dream of mine...).

yeah well, amd *might* have "torrenza" plugins faster if they didn't forcibly close a bunch of startups who were developing products based on the expected cHT protocol. a bunch of people I know who bolted to such startups are knocking on the intel door again after they were forced to close up shop by amd. apparently amd wants to use ati designers to make the plugins, to keep the platform all in-house.

as for 4x4 speculation, given the fact that nobody knows anything about it, please stop speculating wildly... remember when conroe was announced and intel declared it will be 20+% faster and everyone was laughing (except people *really* in the know, haha), at least 20% is a reasonable claim. the kind of claims being made with 4x4 are absurd moonshots.

 

[RichUK]

I think that AMD?s 4X4 tech is supposed to beat Intel to the punch on home user quad core processing, mainly from a marketing point of view. From what i have read Intel plan to debut Kentsfield as the next s775 Extreme Edition processor, over the current x6800. This will be a single socket dual die processor, where as AMD plan the same thing but with two separate sockets for the two dual cores ala 4x4 (this much we already know).

I don?t think there will be any difference between the two other than Intel having the upper hand due to the new processing cores that will be used, aka 2 x Conroe cores, and obviously the difference in subsystem I/O of today.

So AMD will probably try and claim that they are the first to bring Quad core processing to the home user if they beat Kentsfield to launch.

Now I have also read that the two FX?s that are required for 4x4 to operate, has been projected to cost the same amount or near enough to what a normal single FX in the past has cost on release. So on a price basis AMD should be somewhat competitive to the Kentsfield EE. AMD by then will be manufacturing on 65nm, so this should balance costs compared to today?s 90nm manufacturing cost, aka to help make the lower cost possible for the end user when buying two FX?s. However at the time Kentsfield might have the upper hand, due to the fact current motherboards are said to be able to support Kentsfield. Not to mention Kentsfield?s superior processing power. And with AMD?s 4x4, you will obviously have to purchase a new mobo however much that will cost, so no obvious upgrade path. I have also read that AMD intend to produce the chipset for this 4x4 tech, instead of the likes of ATI or nVidia, however they will most likely out source the core logic.

The issue will still remain that even though AMD will perhaps have a speed bump from 65nm, they are still using the inferior K8 design compared to Intels superior Conroe/Kentsfield.

As we already know K8L will be the first single die quad core processor, along with all the new tweaks that will warrant its new core name, K8L. So from my POV, AMD plan to just hang in there until K8L arrives.

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: dmens

as for 4x4 speculation, given the fact that nobody knows anything about it, please stop speculating wildly... remember when conroe was announced and intel declared it will be 20+% faster and everyone was laughing (except people *really* in the know, haha), at least 20% is a reasonable claim. the kind of claims being made with 4x4 are absurd moonshots.

Please keep things in perspective Dmens...when I speculate, I clearly label it as such. I was responding to people who were stating categoricaly that "4x4 will be a bust" by illustrating ways that it might not be, nothing more...

 

[MrUniq]

Nobdy need 4x4 unless it's a work server or some kind of processing farm. It has no place on the consumer desktop and I think it'a a mistake for AMD to promote it as the next big thing.

 

[Pederv]

Originally posted by: MrUniq
Nobdy need 4x4 unless it's a work server or some kind of processing farm. It has no place on the consumer desktop and I think it'a a mistake for AMD to promote it as the next big thing.

You know, I swear I remember somebody saying that about dual processors also.

 

[harpoon84]

Originally posted by: Pederv

Originally posted by: MrUniq
Nobdy need 4x4 unless it's a work server or some kind of processing farm. It has no place on the consumer desktop and I think it'a a mistake for AMD to promote it as the next big thing.

You know, I swear I remember somebody saying that about dual processors also.

The thing is, we are approaching the point of diminishing returns from multiple cores. Right now there really isn't much use for 4x4 on the desktop.

We have jumped from single core to quad core/4x4 in the space of 18 months - you have to let the software catch up.

 

[Furen]

OMG, I cant believe you guys aren't excited about seeing dual-sockets come back to the desktop! Yes, you can't make any performance assesments about 4x4 since no one has enough information about BUT you also can't say "oh, it's gonna fail" without even a little bit of proof to back up your claims. Personally, I'm gonna bite on a 4x4 system (with only one video card) as long as the price for motherboards/CPUs is not too prohibitive (ie. If AMD wants to sell me a 2.6GHz part at more than 300 bucks I will not buy at all, nor will I buy if the mobos are more than 150-200 bucks or so). I am also very excited about torrenza and perhaps an AMD-only video card (HTX for the win).

 

[Pederv]

Originally posted by: harpoon84
The thing is, we are approaching the point of diminishing returns from multiple cores. Right now there really isn't much use for 4x4 on the desktop.

We have jumped from single core to quad core/4x4 in the space of 18 months - you have to let the software catch up.

LOL,
That's why quad cores are supposed to make an appearance later this year. That's why Intel has unofficially set 32 cores as the goal for a processor module.

I've watched enough product introductions to know that it's not what you need, it's what you want. All's it will take is a couple of the right benchmarks and the right price.

 

[harpoon84]

Originally posted by: Pederv

Originally posted by: harpoon84
The thing is, we are approaching the point of diminishing returns from multiple cores. Right now there really isn't much use for 4x4 on the desktop.

We have jumped from single core to quad core/4x4 in the space of 18 months - you have to let the software catch up.

LOL,
That's why quad cores are supposed to make an appearance later this year. That's why Intel has unofficially set 32 cores as the goal for a processor module.

I've watched enough product introductions to know that it's not what you need, it's what you want. All's it will take is a couple of the right benchmarks and the right price.

Yeah, Intel also said Netburst would scale to 10GHz, they fell short of 4GHz, I'm really gonna take their word on that! 😉

Product launches for me is all about the potential of the platform, as they always focus on the high end expensive products, and I don't see 4x4 being any different.

OK, let's just say I'm loaded and I'll get a 4x4 system at launch. How exactly will I benefit compared to an overclocked 3.5GHz Conroe system? I would hazard that most things would actually end up SLOWER since nothing on the consumer front actually takes any advantage of the extra cores except extreme multitasking.

Do you really expect me to apply filters in PS, while encoding videos and MP3s and game all at the same time?!

 

[Conky]

AMD fanboyism on this Conroe stuff is simply sick at this point.

It's like arguing for matches after the lighter was invented.

My next system is gonna be an E6600 based system that beats an FX-62 hands down in 99% of all benchmarks for a third of the price.

Basing a new system on even much higher priced, and slower, FX-62 would be pissing money away. Who is stupid enough to do that? Hello, anyone wanna answer that?

 

[Regs]

4x4 is really 4 processors with the same single threaded performance of a X2 @ 2.4- 2.6 GHz. It's also might expensive no matter what way you look at it.

 

[Pederv]

Even though I've wanted a dual proc system for almost as long as I've wanted a laptop (took 10 years to finally get a laptop) and a 4X4 should be less expensive than a current workstation/server system, I don't see one in my immediate future.

But I still say for them to get accepted, all it's going to take is some winning benchmark scores and a resonable price. Look around, there are people paying $200-$300 more for a CPU than the retail price is just so they can watch benchmarks run faster.

 

[F1shF4t]

Originally posted by: Beachboy
AMD fanboyism on this Conroe stuff is simply sick at this point.

It's like arguing for matches after the lighter was invented.

My next system is gonna be an E6600 based system that beats an FX-62 hands down in 99% of all benchmarks for a third of the price.

Basing a new system on even much higher priced, and slower, FX-62 would be pissing money away. Who is stupid enough to do that? Hello, anyone wanna answer that?

Well there were people buying intel preslers extreme editions, when a lowly 3800+ x2 slightly overclocked pounded them into the ground. And argued how good they were so to some point its not suprising.

The argument for the system is not which single cpu is better but which system will be better for the specific task. Its a fact that a slow 820 PD was quicker than a FX57 when it came to serious multitasking or encoding. Same thing will be with the 4*4 thing. Cause 2 3800+ x2 procesors will be better at multitasking than one conroe extreme adition (assumin no I/O or memory limitation)

Now for games, well conroe will rule that for a while, games are not enough optimised for multicores to have an effect.

 

[imported_Questar]

Originally posted by: harpoon84

Originally posted by: Pederv

Originally posted by: harpoon84
The thing is, we are approaching the point of diminishing returns from multiple cores. Right now there really isn't much use for 4x4 on the desktop.

We have jumped from single core to quad core/4x4 in the space of 18 months - you have to let the software catch up.

LOL,
That's why quad cores are supposed to make an appearance later this year. That's why Intel has unofficially set 32 cores as the goal for a processor module.

I've watched enough product introductions to know that it's not what you need, it's what you want. All's it will take is a couple of the right benchmarks and the right price.

Yeah, Intel also said Netburst would scale to 10GHz, they fell short of 4GHz, I'm really gonna take their word on that! 😉

Product launches for me is all about the potential of the platform, as they always focus on the high end expensive products, and I don't see 4x4 being any different.

OK, let's just say I'm loaded and I'll get a 4x4 system at launch. How exactly will I benefit compared to an overclocked 3.5GHz Conroe system? I would hazard that most things would actually end up SLOWER since nothing on the consumer front actually takes any advantage of the extra cores except extreme multitasking.

Do you really expect me to apply filters in PS, while encoding videos and MP3s and game all at the same time?!

AMD also said they would be at 10Ghz, have SMT, and huge caches. Where did all that go? Must have been in the cancelled K9 and K10.