Bearings were spun

[illusion88]

Well I got the bearingsoff the crank shaft and rods. The most damaged ones are on the left. Here is another image of the spun bearings. I haven't ordered new ones yet. The dealership can't look up what bearings I have and they rely on a color coded system. The color is supposed to be on the side of the bearing, but of course mine are ruined so the color is gone. Eventually I found out that there is a number on the rod and a letter on the crank that correspond to the correct color code. I have those numbers, and hopefully on Monday, when the dealership reopens, I can order new ones. On a side note, people at dealerships, mechanics and the folk in the parts store alike, are retarded. None of them could help me. Never heard of a d17a1 engine? It was in EVERY Honda Civic LX from 2003 to 2006.

What else should I replace to ensure a healthy motor? What else should I check? Yes, I know, replacing the engine would be the correct thing to do but I am trying this first. If it comes to that then I'll replace it. For now, let's see if we can get this baby running (her name is Claire BTW).

Any help?


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New question

The reason I was getting the oil pan off was to get to my rod bearings and crankshaft.

There is this cradle, I think it's the Main bearing cap bridge. The oil pickup was attacked to it. It seems to serve as a way to distribute oil onto the crankshaft bearings.

I identified it using a Haynes guide. It has ten bolts, I took them off. It's not even loose. I tapped it with a soft mallot, I banged on it with a block of wood and a hammer. No luck. Is there a bolt I am missing? There is a hex that I see that might be connecting something but it is hard to tell. I am thinking that the cradle has been torqued on there for so long it's just stuck. Or I've missed something and I can't figure it out.

Here is a picture. It's not the best image, taken with a cell phone and it's a bit close.... Unfortunatly the image doesn't show the hex screw I was talking about. It would be past the upper right hand corner.
Thanks!

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New question

The reason I was taking the exhaust off was to get to the oil pan. I've removed the exhaust, and this shield thing and have taken all of the screws and nuts off the oil pan (18 total). The danm thing is stuck there! I banged on it with a hammer, I tried to apply pressure on it but it won't budge. Any suggestions?

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I am attempting to remove my exhaust pipe. Ugh, those bolts are stuck! The book I have suggests a hacksaw (cutting torch really but I don't have that). It's pretty vague on what to cut. Do I just cut through the spring and everything? I did some looking online and some sites suggested just cutting the pipe, but that was mostly if a replacement was the intended goal.

I've already disabled the vehicle, so taking it to a muffler shop to get the bolts off isn't an option.

What are you tricks and tips for these frozen bolts?

 

[lsd]

Shoot it with PBblaster or Kroil and let it sit for a day and then heat it up with a propane torch.

 

[Turin39789]

dremel tool and cutting wheel?

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: lsd
Shoot it with PBblaster or Kroil and let it sit for a day and then heat it up with a propane torch.

This plus a little foot action on your wrench ought to do something.

 

[illusion88]

Got them off
Much easier then I thought!

I applied some Liquid Wrench and tried again a few hours later. Worked like a charm.

New question

The reason I was taking the exhaust off was to get to the oil pan. I've removed the exhaust, and this shield thing and have taken all of the screws and nuts off the oil pan (18 total). The danm thing is stuck there! I banged on it with a hammer, I tried to apply pressure on it but it won't budge. Any suggestions?

 

[BlackTigers]

I got mine off by prying it with a flatblade, but SLOWLY and CAREFULLY.

Angle the blade towards the pan and not the engine though, it's much easier to flatten out an oil pan than it is to resurface the bottom of your block.

 

[darom]

There is probably permatex type gasket silicone sandwiched between the block and oil pan. If you have room around the pan, get a box cutter (I like using a medical scalpel) and start cutting the glued gasket.

 

[Squisher]

I wonder how a windshield wire would work?

btw-check first, you might already have this in your kit of killing tools.

 

[lsd]

Putty knife & mallet
Tap it around as much of the pan you can then use a slot screw driver to break the seal.

 

[illusion88]

up to the top with a new title and question. Thanks guys!

 

[alfa147x]

Originally posted by: lsd
Putty knife & mallet
Tap it around as much of the pan you can then use a slot screw driver to break the seal.

yup thats what i did when we cleaned out the pan in a 1997 Town and Country

 

[brblx]

main caps usually require a little bit of effort to get loose. is that girdle integral with all the caps? i'd work it back and forth with a rubber mallet until it comes loose.

of course, if engine is still in the car (and it's an inline engine), your crank is going to fall out with it...

 

[Raduque]

Originally posted by: brblx
main caps usually require a little bit of effort to get loose. is that girdle integral with all the caps? i'd work it back and forth with a rubber mallet until it comes loose.

of course, if engine is still in the car (and it's an inline engine), your crank is going to fall out with it...

The front and end seal will probably hold it in. I doubt the crank will just "fall" straight out if you remove the main cap/crank skirt.

 

[lsd]

In my experience some girdles need a little prying to remove them. If you're sure you've got all the bolts take a pry bar or long screw drive are lightly pry it up in a star pattern.

But I think you're going about this the wrong way. I hope your crank isn't damaged or you don't have a bent rod....

 

[franksta]

In the picture it looks like there's 10 bolts and you've removed 5 of them. Is that correct?

 

[illusion88]

Originally posted by: franksta
In the picture it looks like there's 10 bolts and you've removed 5 of them. Is that correct?

Thats right, I took the picture half way though. All ten bolts are off now.

Originally posted by: lsd
But I think you're going about this the wrong way. I hope your crank isn't damaged or you don't have a bent rod....

The whole reason I am going about this is to fix an engine knock. I believe the bearings are the cause of this (I ran out of oil and the knock started). If I can pull the main cap I can get into the bottom end of the cylinders and replace the bearings.

You think I'm going about this the wrong way... any suggestions on how to go about it the right way? Should I be doing this with the engine out of the car? The book I have says I can't remove the crank with it in the car, but I don't need to do that (unless it's really in the way). I hope it won't be.

If I pull the cap, and the crank is scared, I am going to buy a new engine. New cranks cost $975 vs a used engine at $600-700. I don't think that will be the case, the oil pan was clean, no metal shavings or anything like that.

 

[brblx]

main bearings don't knock. you have a rod bearing problem.

and if you ran out of oil, all your bearings are probably trashed, not just the one that spun.

 

[illusion88]

Originally posted by: brblx
main bearings don't knock. you have a rod bearing problem.

and if you ran out of oil, all your bearings are probably trashed, not just the one that spun.

My apologies, I know it's the rod bearing, just didn't type that. And yes, I'm going to replace all of the bearings as well as some gaskets and seals. Here is a question, should I replace the oil pump? I'm already half way there to getting it out, shouldn't be too much more effort to do so. I'm told that Honda oil pumps are near indestructible and I should be okay. What's your opinion?

 

[lsd]

Originally posted by: illusion88

Originally posted by: franksta
In the picture it looks like there's 10 bolts and you've removed 5 of them. Is that correct?

Thats right, I took the picture half way though. All ten bolts are off now.

Originally posted by: lsd
But I think you're going about this the wrong way. I hope your crank isn't damaged or you don't have a bent rod....

The whole reason I am going about this is to fix an engine knock. I believe the bearings are the cause of this (I ran out of oil and the knock started). If I can pull the main cap I can get into the bottom end of the cylinders and replace the bearings.

You think I'm going about this the wrong way... any suggestions on how to go about it the right way? Should I be doing this with the engine out of the car? The book I have says I can't remove the crank with it in the car, but I don't need to do that (unless it's really in the way). I hope it won't be.

If I pull the cap, and the crank is scared, I am going to buy a new engine. New cranks cost $975 vs a used engine at $600-700. I don't think that will be the case, the oil pan was clean, no metal shavings or anything like that.

Yes the correct way is to pull the engine first. Chances are the crank is damaged too if it is indeed a spun bearing. But either way your crank needs to be mic'd or "blue printed" for new bearing size. Your crank is attached to the transmission by way of the flexplate/flywheel. You can't get to it the way your doing it...

 

[SpatiallyAware]

What is this out of and what area of the country do you live?


It really may be easier to do an engine swap if you can find something low mileage and clean.


When you run a motor totally out of oil there is usually other long term damage. Your top end takes a ton of abuse, as it generally dries up first. Every bearing has burnt oil coating the inside of it..

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Also pics.bbzzdd is down but I looked earlier and I believe another poster was right - it looks like you've only removed half of the bolts.

 

[illusion88]

Thanks again for the help guys. You've been great.

 

[franksta]

Check the bearing journals on the crank. If they are scored you might need to have it reground to the first undersize and you'll need a different bearing size for that.

 

[boomerang]

What caused this problem is my concern. Although bearings are relatively cheap, this is a lot of labor to go through to have it happen again.

Obviously it's an oil pressure or delivery problem of some type.

Low on Oil? Or spirited driving causing the oil pump to starve for oil?

Oil pump bad?

An internal leak which caused the pressure to drop? Something up in the cylinder head loose or coming loose that's bleeding off oil pressure?

I'm not in the slightest familiar with the engine in your car, so I'm throwing out general questions. The heart of the problem needs to be addressed or all of your efforts will be in vain.

When I see bearings that bad, here are some things that come to mind. In your earlier pics that cradle (bridge) to me looked discolored. I know the pic quality was bad, but is it truly discolored? That would be a sign of overheating. In this case due to low oil pressure. When metals get too hot they sometimes warp. Not good.

Along those lines, What about the big end of the connecting rods. Any discoloration? Again, overheating. If so, they need to be checked to make sure they are still truly round. The caps need to be installed and torqued to specs and they need to be checked for roundness, taper and diameter.

The journals on the crankshaft need to checked, not just visually for scoring and signs of overheating, but to ensure that they are still truly round and not worn undersized or tapered. The rod journals can be checked in car, but the main journals will be impossible to check. You can see where this is going.

Bearings are designed to be the softest wearing part and are in a sense sacrificial. But when they are damaged to this extent, the corresponding parts most certainly need to be checked out. As I said earlier, the root cause must be determined or the problem will repeat itself. Damage like this is not normal wear.

 

[illusion88]

Originally posted by: boomerang
What caused this problem is my concern. Although bearings are relatively cheap, this is a lot of labor to go through to have it happen again.

Obviously it's an oil pressure or delivery problem of some type.

Low on Oil? Or spirited driving causing the oil pump to starve for oil?

Oil pump bad?

An internal leak which caused the pressure to drop? Something up in the cylinder head loose or coming loose that's bleeding off oil pressure?

I'm not in the slightest familiar with the engine in your car, so I'm throwing out general questions. The heart of the problem needs to be addressed or all of your efforts will be in vain.

When I see bearings that bad, here are some things that come to mind. In your earlier pics that cradle (bridge) to me looked discolored. I know the pic quality was bad, but is it truly discolored? That would be a sign of overheating. In this case due to low oil pressure. When metals get too hot they sometimes warp. Not good.

Along those lines, What about the big end of the connecting rods. Any discoloration? Again, overheating. If so, they need to be checked to make sure they are still truly round. The caps need to be installed and torqued to specs and they need to be checked for roundness, taper and diameter.

The journals on the crankshaft need to checked, not just visually for scoring and signs of overheating, but to ensure that they are still truly round and not worn undersized or tapered. The rod journals can be checked in car, but the main journals will be impossible to check. You can see where this is going.

Bearings are designed to be the softest wearing part and are in a sense sacrificial. But when they are damaged to this extent, the corresponding parts most certainly need to be checked out. As I said earlier, the root cause must be determined or the problem will repeat itself. Damage like this is not normal wear.

I didn't get the oil changed for about 5-6k miles. I know, bad. I must also have a small leak or it's burning oil. A friend of mine told me that all Honda engines burn a bit of oil. Not sure if that's correct or not. Either way, when I checked my oil after the knock started I was bone dry. I added 3 qts of oil and it just put it inbetween the lines on the dipstick.

So the route of the problem is a combination of me not changing the oil and the oil either leaking or burning over 5-6k miles.

Two of the caps and rod ends are discolored. Those are the two that had the burnt bearings. The cradle isn't discolored. It also fits back in easily. I haven't been able to get to the main journals, how much risk is it to just leave them there and hope for the best? Is that straight retarded?

I don't have an oil pressure gauge, but I bet Napa autoparts carries one.