Be afraid, very afraid, terrorists taking over flights: Update 2-3-04 U.S. says All Clear Boogie Men gone

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
U.S. says All Clear Boogie Men gone:

2-3-2004 U.S. Says No Plans to Ground New Flights

WASHINGTON - The "specific and credible" terrorist threats that led to the cancellation of seven flights have passed and there are no plans to ground any more flights, government officials said Monday.

"At this point we do not have any new threat reporting targeting specific flights like we did over the weekend," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said.

McClellan defended the decision to ground the flights.

"When we have specific intelligence that comes to our attention, we act on that intelligence, we share it, and that's what you are seeing done here," he said.


2-1-2004 Airline Cancels Washington-Houston Flight

WASHINGTON - Continental Airlines canceled a Sunday evening flight from Washington to Houston after security concerns were raised by the Homeland Security Department.

Department spokesman Brian Roehrkasse said Flight 1519 was canceled "due to security concerns and threat reporting about that particular flight."

He added that the federal agency and Continental "worked closely on the matter," but did not give any further details of the threat.

The National Football League's Super Bowl was being played Sunday evening at Reliant Stadium, approximately 27 miles from the airport.


1-31-2004 Flights to U.S. Canceled on Terror Fears

LONDON - British Airways and Air France on Saturday announced the cancellation of seven flights to and from the United States because of security concerns. The United States has indications of al-Qaida's continued interest in targeting international flights to America, a government official said.

A government official, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said based on threat reporting there are a handful of specific flights on three airlines ? Air France, British Airways and a U.S.-based carrier that flies internationally ? that are of concern. The official declined to identify the third airline or provide information about its flights.

Dennis Lopez, 48, a lawyer from Tampa, Fla., boarding the plane, said the cancelations were unnerving.

"I'm a little worried and if I had another flight arrangement right now that could take me there I would definitely take advantage of that," he said... It hadn't occurred to me that this flight could be a possible target."
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Please show us these Terrorists in captivity, otherwise it is just brainwashing drivel.
 

maluckey

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2003
2,933
0
71
To whom it may concern,

So, waiting till they kill someone is better? I'd rather keep them on their toes, making it diffucult to get to their victims. Others apparenly want a Welcome Mat, then get upset whent the known-to-be-less-than-gracious guests try to kill the hosts.
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
29,470
1
81
See...this sort of outlook is what makes me completely discount all the op/ed pieces saying that 9/11 could have been prevented...

The public only marginally accepts the postponing of flights and the ban of 2" blades now; how much louder would the crying have been on 10 September 2001 and before?
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
An attack on the scale of 9/11 or anything resembling those tactics could have EASILY been prevented. 9/11 required a series of failures. The current strategy of cavity-searching grandma and confiscating nail clippers hasn't made anyone safer. Pilots being instructed to fly planes instead of negotiate with hijackers, actual inspection of baggage/cargo, plus liberal use of sky marshals have all improved domestic security. Every reasonable person tolerates the inconveniences. If the US, UK, and France cannot secure their flights then direct international air travel to the US might as well stop.
 

MacBaine

Banned
Aug 23, 2001
9,999
0
0
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
An attack on the scale of 9/11 or anything resembling those tactics could have EASILY been prevented.

rolleye.gif
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
0
0
The current strategy of cavity-searching grandma and confiscating nail clippers hasn't made anyone safer.

There is no strategy of "cavity searching grandma". There is a strategy of doing random searches and when grandma's number comes up then grandma gets searched. Random searches are an integral part of any good security system. Patterns will quickly be recognized and exploited if they exist. Whether nail clippers are a weapon or not is a matter of opinion I guess but why take a chance and what possible difference does it make?
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
0
0
The current strategy of cavity-searching grandma and confiscating nail clippers hasn't made anyone safer.

There is no strategy of "cavity searching grandma". There is a strategy of doing random searches and when grandma's number comes up then grandma gets searched. Random searches are an integral part of any good security system. Patterns will quickly be recognized and exploited if they exist. Whether nail clippers are a weapon or not is a matter of opinion I guess but why take a chance and what possible difference does it make?
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
The current strategy of cavity-searching grandma and confiscating nail clippers hasn't made anyone safer.

There is no strategy of "cavity searching grandma". There is a strategy of doing random searches and when grandma's number comes up then grandma gets searched. Random searches are an integral part of any good security system. Patterns will quickly be recognized and exploited if they exist. Whether nail clippers are a weapon or not is a matter of opinion I guess but why take a chance and what possible difference does it make?

Oh Ahhhhhhhhhh, help, it's attack of the Nail Clippers, please save me!!!

 

Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
21,938
6
81
I got into the US, post Sept 11th, with a small bottle-opener/corkscrew/knife "thing".
The knife blade was ~1 1/2" long, if that (probably 1" long).

Could a terrorist use this to threaten someone/hijack a plane? Maybe. But I got through Canadian, Hawai'ian, UK and US "searches" with this in my pocket. Even post Sept 11th it's not all that great. (Don't have it anymore, it got spotted when I flew from Guernsey to the UK at Christmas, I'd had it with me since Sept 2002, on more than a dozen flights).

People shoul dbe concerned if objects can be smuggled oonto flights, and they still can.
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
29,470
1
81
I got into the US, post Sept 11th, with a small bottle-opener/corkscrew/knife "thing".
The knife blade was ~1 1/2" long, if that (probably 1" long).

Could a terrorist use this to threaten someone/hijack a plane? Maybe. But I got through Canadian, Hawai'ian, UK and US "searches" with this in my pocket. Even post Sept 11th it's not all that great. (Don't have it anymore, it got spotted when I flew from Guernsey to the UK at Christmas, I'd had it with me since Sept 2002, on more than a dozen flights).

People shoul dbe concerned if objects can be smuggled oonto flights, and they still can.
So are you saying there should be stricter rules? I doubt the public would stand for that with the number of people that are riled up that airports are "cavity searching grandma." :)
Oh Ahhhhhhhhhh, help, it's attack of the Nail Clippers, please save me!!!
I'm sure most people would have said the same thing about box cutters pre-9/11 ;)
Originally posted by: MacBaine
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
An attack on the scale of 9/11 or anything resembling those tactics could have EASILY been prevented.

rolleye.gif

 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Looks like another line of initiate distraction to cover heat towards Bush Baby.

If they really had leads as to what flights and when - why wouldn't they put on several
special agents that were armed to the teeth and wait for someone to act suspicious ?

Last row of each cabin section on the aisle so they can see everyone in front of them and follow the
progress of anyone who would enter from a cabin behind, since thay could observe movement as well.

2 in the front, 2 in the middle and 2 all the way to the back monitoring the aft lavatories.
That is 6 good guys and if anyone dare become agressive you pretty much got them.

Blurting out 'Wolf ! Wolf ! ' every other week is bogus - if they really have any data they
would keep it quite so as not to tip their habds and bait and execute the trap.

Paranoids running the Government - that's unforgivable.
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
0
0
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Looks like another line of initiate distraction to cover heat towards Bush Baby.

If they really had leads as to what flights and when - why wouldn't they put on several
special agents that were armed to the teeth and wait for someone to act suspicious ?

Last row of each cabin section on the aisle so they can see everyone in front of them and follow the
progress of anyone who would enter from a cabin behind, since thay could observe movement as well.

2 in the front, 2 in the middle and 2 all the way to the back monitoring the aft lavatories.
That is 6 good guys and if anyone dare become agressive you pretty much got them.

Blurting out 'Wolf ! Wolf ! ' every other week is bogus - if they really have any data they
would keep it quite so as not to tip their habds and bait and execute the trap.

Paranoids running the Government - that's unforgivable.

You don't use a plane full of innocent people as bait. They are doing the prudent thing.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
They don't have to be bait - board the planes move to a remote area with some chatter,
"Ladies and Gentlemen our takeoff will be delayed as maintainence checks for something at random"

Any timed and co-ordinated plot has to initiate and execute within a small departure envelope,
so a delay at the start should be able to 'Sweat-Out' any possible perpertrators.

Even if a flight was near capacity, there would be many who would forfieght thier seating to an officer.
Descrete observation of those arriving for boarding should provide many candidates that would not arouse suspision,
replace maybe 10 to 20 'Targeted Non-Suspect' types with agents in disguise, and never take off -
No squirrels ? Go back to the gate & unload, re--verify those who would have flown.
 

Tripleshot

Elite Member
Jan 29, 2000
7,218
1
0
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
They don't have to be bait - board the planes move to a remote area with some chatter,
"Ladies and Gentlemen our takeoff will be delayed as maintainence checks for something at random"

Any timed and co-ordinated plot has to initiate and execute within a small departure envelope,
so a delay at the start should be able to 'Sweat-Out' any possible perpertrators.

Even if a flight was near capacity, there would be many who would forfieght thier seating to an officer.
Descrete observation of those arriving for boarding should provide many candidates that would not arouse suspision,
replace maybe 10 to 20 'Targeted Non-Suspect' types with agents in disguise, and never take off -
No squirrels ? Go back to the gate & unload, re--verify those who would have flown.

Sounds like a very good approach, but you forgert one thing. Bush wants the American public scared t odeath, so they will see him as the vindicator and patron saint of our security while he is at the helm. This is Bull Crap knee jerk super bowl sunday "look at me, you are safe with my reaction to nebulous airwave chatter from arab despots we'll shut down the air traffic. That will show em we mean business."

Good heavens,we need new leadership desperately.
rolleye.gif


 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
I actually agree that cancelling flights is better than setting a trap. Personally, if the feds had intelligence that terrorists might be planning to hijack my plane I'd be much happier if my flight was cancelled, than to have them try and take them out while onboard. I don't care if we were in the air or not, guns and bombs scare me. ;)

Then again, I didn't participate in the ever-growing art of France bashing when they had the gall to cancel some flights a while back.
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
0
0
Originally posted by: Tripleshot
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
They don't have to be bait - board the planes move to a remote area with some chatter,
"Ladies and Gentlemen our takeoff will be delayed as maintainence checks for something at random"

Any timed and co-ordinated plot has to initiate and execute within a small departure envelope,
so a delay at the start should be able to 'Sweat-Out' any possible perpertrators.

Even if a flight was near capacity, there would be many who would forfieght thier seating to an officer.
Descrete observation of those arriving for boarding should provide many candidates that would not arouse suspision,
replace maybe 10 to 20 'Targeted Non-Suspect' types with agents in disguise, and never take off -
No squirrels ? Go back to the gate & unload, re--verify those who would have flown.

Sounds like a very good approach, but you forgert one thing. Bush wants the American public scared t odeath, so they will see him as the vindicator and patron saint of our security while he is at the helm. This is Bull Crap knee jerk super bowl sunday "look at me, you are safe with my reaction to nebulous airwave chatter from arab despots we'll shut down the air traffic. That will show em we mean business."

Good heavens,we need new leadership desperately.
rolleye.gif

It sounds like a horrible approach and it doesn't even deserve cursory consideration. How many people are you willing to sacrifice in some vain hope that you can "catch" terrorists before they do any damage. This isn't some movie script where the lights go out, you hear some rustling and gun shots, and when the lights go back on, some hero has killed all the bad guys and gets the girl. Gimme a friggin' break. As to the assertion that the admin. is making this up to scare people, try saying it out loud and then admit how ridiculous it sounds. And then ask yourself what your reaction would be if there was a terrorist attack or better yet what your reaction would be if we actually tried that John Wayne/Ramboesque stunt that you described and innocent people died in the process. If you want to criticize this admin. about something, pick something that's real, there's plenty to choose from. This latest little rant is a non-starter.
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Looks like another line of initiate distraction to cover heat towards Bush Baby.

If they really had leads as to what flights and when - why wouldn't they put on several
special agents that were armed to the teeth and wait for someone to act suspicious ?

Last row of each cabin section on the aisle so they can see everyone in front of them and follow the
progress of anyone who would enter from a cabin behind, since thay could observe movement as well.

2 in the front, 2 in the middle and 2 all the way to the back monitoring the aft lavatories.
That is 6 good guys and if anyone dare become agressive you pretty much got them.

Blurting out 'Wolf ! Wolf ! ' every other week is bogus - if they really have any data they
would keep it quite so as not to tip their habds and bait and execute the trap.

Paranoids running the Government - that's unforgivable.


Perhaps you would like to volunteer to sit in the seat directly between the armed marshalls and the hijackers.

 

Spamela

Diamond Member
Oct 30, 2000
3,859
0
76
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Looks like another line of initiate distraction to cover heat towards Bush Baby.

If they really had leads as to what flights and when - why wouldn't they put on several
special agents that were armed to the teeth and wait for someone to act suspicious ?

Last row of each cabin section on the aisle so they can see everyone in front of them and follow the
progress of anyone who would enter from a cabin behind, since thay could observe movement as well.

2 in the front, 2 in the middle and 2 all the way to the back monitoring the aft lavatories.
That is 6 good guys and if anyone dare become agressive you pretty much got them.

Blurting out 'Wolf ! Wolf ! ' every other week is bogus - if they really have any data they
would keep it quite so as not to tip their habds and bait and execute the trap.

Paranoids running the Government - that's unforgivable.

they don't do it every other week, only when Shrub's poll numbers go down.
 

Tripleshot

Elite Member
Jan 29, 2000
7,218
1
0
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Looks like another line of initiate distraction to cover heat towards Bush Baby.

If they really had leads as to what flights and when - why wouldn't they put on several
special agents that were armed to the teeth and wait for someone to act suspicious ?

Last row of each cabin section on the aisle so they can see everyone in front of them and follow the
progress of anyone who would enter from a cabin behind, since thay could observe movement as well.

2 in the front, 2 in the middle and 2 all the way to the back monitoring the aft lavatories.
That is 6 good guys and if anyone dare become agressive you pretty much got them.

Blurting out 'Wolf ! Wolf ! ' every other week is bogus - if they really have any data they
would keep it quite so as not to tip their habds and bait and execute the trap.

Paranoids running the Government - that's unforgivable.


Perhaps you would like to volunteer to sit in the seat directly between the armed marshalls and the hijackers.



With six armed marshalls on board, and any faith I have in airport security doing its job correctly, knowing that we are alert to shoe bombers now, Yes I would board that flight........ and bring on the damn wouldbe hijackers. It aint gunna happen.

Crying wolf every time Bushs poll numbers goes down, or every damn time a popular event happens in the US and we go on some freakin crayon colored alert, I'm sick of this crap. You believe what you want, I believe the closest to terrorism you will ever see is confined to suicide car bombers at best, and probably not on US soil, but in some foreign land. Hijacking planes after 9/11? Not gunna be. Its hype for election time, thats all.
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
That's two people that have made a correlation between hijacking threats and Pres. Bush's poll numbers.

Would anyone care to present their research and prove that correlation.



I didn't think so.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: etech
That's two people that have made a correlation between hijacking threats and Pres. Bush's poll numbers.

Would anyone care to present their research and prove that correlation.

I didn't think so.

No, of course not, no correlation at all, no correlation between Terrorism and Osama or Hussein either and those Nail Clippers are the most lethal weapon of all time.

 

maluckey

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2003
2,933
0
71
FWIW...

We (INS/Customs/Agriculture/BP/SP/PD, and/or Mexican autorities) used to shut down certain Southern Border, Ports of Entry at times when the intel was good enough. These shutdowns deterrred the would-be smugglers, and ne'er-do-goods. They never knew when they would be forced to change plans, or get stuck in traffic. In this case, it wasn't like in an aircraft with no way out. They sometimes jumped out of the cars and ran. Sometimes we would find empty cars, just sitting there, loaded with drugs, guns, or just the car of a wanted fugitive. Others were stupid and tried to be cool about it. They were caught. In an aircraft, they likely would take hostages, or just start the killing.

The moral is that Al-Qaida, and their operatives are not totally stupid. They will not risk getting caught if it can be at all avoided.

Also, some of the Euro flights were cancelled not because of intel of terrorists, but because they had "logistical" problems. This is likely because they had no Air Marshall, or equicalent available as per FAA regs.

Keep up the good work I say.