Bayer attempting to takeover Monsanto

[norseamd]

Earning forecasts had been cut, and the company was entangled in legal disputes across the world sending its shares down almost 20% before news of the Bayer approach. “It’s a relentless string of bad news,” Jonas Oxgaard, an analyst at Sanford Bernstein told Bloomberg. “It’s almost like they forgot to sacrifice a goat to the gods.”

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...h-grant-bayer-takeover-protests?CMP=edit_2221

 

[kage69]

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...h-grant-bayer-takeover-protests?CMP=edit_2221

Hard to feel sympathy for a company like that. I hope whatever happens it's as painful and unpleasant as possible for the company's leadership. Fuck those corporate terrorists and their seed gestapo, go nuts Bayer.

In conclusion: rough times for Monsanto? Good.

 

[MajinCry]

Monsanto, the lads who made agent orange, decried the malformed Vietnamese children as lying thieves trying to steal your money, as well as having chucked pfoa into the environment.

Monsanto's falling apart? Good.

 

[IronWing]

Um, compared to Bayer, Monsanto's history has been sunshine and lollipops.

 

[Brainonska511]

Hard to feel sympathy for a company like that. I hope whatever happens it's as painful and unpleasant as possible for the company's leadership. Fuck those corporate terrorists and their seed gestapo, go nuts Bayer.

In conclusion: rough times for Monsanto? Good.

Monsanto today is not the same company of old. The chemical division, responsible for things like PCBs and Agent Orange, was sold off long ago. But uninformed people leap to all sorts of crazy assertions when they hear the name Monsanto.

 

[Vic]

Um, compared to Bayer, Monsanto's history has been sunshine and lollipops.

Yep. The company that made Zyklon B is buying the company that made Agent Orange. It's a beautiful day.

 

[norseamd]

Heroin

Heroin (diacetylmorphine), now illegal as an addictive drug, was trademarked and marketed by Bayer as a cough suppressant and non-addictive substitute for morphine from 1898 to 1910.[13] Bayer scientists were not the first to make heroin, but their scientists discovered ways to make it, and Bayer led commercialization of heroin.[14] Heroin was a Bayer trademark until after World War I

World War II

During World War II, IG Farben used slave labor in factories that it built adjacent to German concentration camps, notably Auschwitz,[23] and the sub-camps of the Mauthausen-Gusen concentration camp.[24] IG Farben purchased prisoners for human experimentation of a sleep-inducing drug and later reported that all test subjects died.[25][26] IG Farben held a large investment in Degesch which produced Zyclon B used to gas and kill prisoners during the Holocaust.[27]

After World War II, the Allies broke up IG Farben and Bayer reappeared as an individual business "inheriting" many of IG Farben's assets.[25] Fritz ter Meer, an IG Farben board member from 1926 to 1945 who directed operations at the IG Farben plant at Auschwitz, was sentenced to seven years in prison during the IG Farben Military Tribunal at Nuremberg. He was elected Bayer's supervisory board head in 1956.[28]

In 1995, Helge Wehmeier, the head of Bayer, publicly apologized to Elie Wiesel for the company's involvement in the Holocaust at a lecture in Pittsburgh.[27]

Post World War II

In the 1960s Bayer introduced a pregnancy test, Primodos that consisted of two pills that contained norethisterone (as acetate) and ethinylestradiol. It detected pregnancy by inducing menstruation in women who were not pregnant. The presence or absence of menstrual bleeding was then used to determine whether the user was pregnant. The test became the subject of controversy when it was blamed for birth defects, and it was withdrawn from the market in the mid-1970s. Litigation in the 1980s regarding these claims ended inconclusively. A review of the matter by the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency in 2014 assessed the studies performed to date, and concluded that it found the evidence for adverse effects to be inconclusive.[29]

In 1978, Bayer purchased Miles Laboratories and its subsidiaries Miles Canada and Cutter Laboratories (along with product lines including Alka-Seltzer, Flintstones vitamins and One-A-Day vitamins, and Cutter insect repellent).

Along with the purchase of Cutter, Bayer acquired Cutter's Factor VIII business. Factor VIII is a clotting agent used to treat hemophilia, and at that time it was produced by processing donated blood. In the early days of the AIDS epidemic, people with hemophilia were found to have higher rates of AIDS, and by 1983 the CDC had identified contaminated blood products as a source of infection.[30] According to the New York Times, this was "one of the worst drug-related medical disasters in history."[30] Companies including Bayer developed new ways to treat donated blood with heat to decontaminate it, and these new products were introduced early in 1984. In 1997, Bayer and the other three makers of such blood products agreed to pay $660 million to settle cases on behalf of more than 6,000 hemophiliacs infected in United States.[30] In 2003 documents emerged showing that Cutter continued to sell unheated blood products in markets outside the US until 1985.[30]

In the late 1990s, Bayer introduced a statin drug, Baycol (Cerivastatin) but after 52 deaths were attributed to it, Bayer discontinued it in 2001. The side effect was rhabdomyolysis, causing renal failure, which occurred with a tenfold greater frequency in patients treated with Baycol in comparison to those prescribed alternate medications of the statin class.[31]

Chemical accident

On 28 August 2008, an explosion occurred at the Bayer CropScience facility at Institute, West Virginia, United States. A runaway reaction ruptured a tank and the resulting explosion killed two employees.[111] The ruptured tank was close to a methyl isocyanate tank which was undamaged by the explosion.[112]

 

[woolfe9998]

Yep. The company that made Zyklon B is buying the company that made Agent Orange. It's a beautiful day.

Zyklon B was actually manufactured by a company called Dagesch. It was manufactured as an insecticide but the SS figured out it was deadlier to humans than insects.

"Bayer" back then was part of IG Farben which was broken up after WWII into several different companies because they profited from slave labor at Auschwitz.

Then again, lots of German companies around today had some relationship to the Nazis.

Edit: just noticed Norseamd's post already contains most of this information.

 

[CaptainGoodnight]

Hard to feel sympathy for a company like that. I hope whatever happens it's as painful and unpleasant as possible for the company's leadership. Fuck those corporate terrorists and their seed gestapo, go nuts Bayer.

In conclusion: rough times for Monsanto? Good.

I doubt I can change your mind, but I'll respond for others out there who have heard rumblings about Monsanto, but don't really know what it's about.
The complaints about Monsanto basically fall into three buckets:

1. Complaints about their history as a chemicals manufacturer
2. Complaints about GMOs (in general)
3. Complaints about their legal approach toward patent violators

As for (1), I don't know what else to say except that they spun off that division in the 90s. The modern-day Monsanto is an agriculture / bio-sciences company. It's fair to talk about stuff that happened in the 60s, but it's not fair to pretend that it has anything at all to do with Monsanto as it exists today. What is the point of bringing up Agent Orange in a debate about GMOs? It's merely a distraction tactic.

As for (2), realize that the science is pretty clear on this. Some people think it's weird to be mucking around with plant DNA, but we've been doing it for a few thousand years with selective breeding. The arguments against it are almost universally pseudo-scientific.

As for (3), this has been wildly exaggerated. Yes, Monsanto does patent their products. Yes, that means that farmers who violate those patents get sued. You'll sometimes hear stories about how some farmer accidentally got some Monsanto seeds blown onto his farm and then got sued. They're talking about this case: Monsanto Canada Inc v Schmeiser. You can read about it for yourself, but I think (as did the court) that Schmeiser pretty clearly violated their patent and deserved what he got.

The rabbit hole is deep on this one, so I encourage anyone interested to read further. Yes, Google searches are easy. They're too easy. You need to wade through a ton of nonsense on this topic to get to the facts.

 

[Vic]

Zyklon B was actually manufactured by a company called Dagesch. It was manufactured as an insecticide but the SS figured out it was deadlier to humans than insects.

"Bayer" back then was part of IG Farben which was broken up after WWII into several different companies because they profited from slave labor at Auschwitz.

Then again, lots of German companies around today had some relationship to the Nazis.

Edit: just noticed Norseamd's post already contains most of this information.

My comment was largely sarcastic. I'm familiar with the history, and I'm actually pro-GMO except for some concerns like patent laws and cross-contamination.

Lots of American companies had some relationship with the Nazis too.

 

[Brainonska511]

My comment was largely sarcastic. I'm familiar with the history, and I'm actually pro-GMO except for some concerns like patent laws and cross-contamination.

Lots of American companies had some relationship with the Nazis too.

The patent issues are nothing new though. Plant patents have been around since the 1930s and farmers don't want to save seeds due to the nature of hybrid plants and the amount of work necessary to save seeds.

 

[CaptainGoodnight]

The patent issues are nothing new though. Plant patents have been around since the 1930s and farmers don't want to save seeds due to the nature of hybrid plants and the amount of work necessary to save seeds.

Not to mention that the Round Up patent expired in 2015.

 

[Brainonska511]

Not to mention that the Round Up patent expired in 2015.

That actually expired in 2000. The active ingredient, glyphosate, has been sold for years by other companies. It was some of the first Roundup-Ready soy patents that expired last year.

 

[norseamd]

As for (2), realize that the science is pretty clear on this. Some people think it's weird to be mucking around with plant DNA, but we've been doing it for a few thousand years with selective breeding. The arguments against it are almost universally pseudo-scientific.

There are arguments that go beyond GMO=bad and non-GMO=good, and deal more with the more detailed aspects of GMOs.

As for (3), this has been wildly exaggerated. Yes, Monsanto does patent their products. Yes, that means that farmers who violate those patents get sued. You'll sometimes hear stories about how some farmer accidentally got some Monsanto seeds blown onto his farm and then got sued. They're talking about this case: Monsanto Canada Inc v Schmeiser. You can read about it for yourself, but I think (as did the court) that Schmeiser pretty clearly violated their patent and deserved what he got.

I think you well know better than this. There are a huge list of complaints and witness statements involving Monsanto.

 

[Brainonska511]

There are arguments that go beyond GMO=bad and non-GMO=good, and deal more with the more detailed aspects of GMOs.



I think you well know better than this. There are a huge list of complaints and witness statements involving Monsanto.

The GMO contamination stiff is mostly a red herring. When some organic farmers tried to preemptively sue Monsanto a few years ago, they could dig up no evidence that they have gone after small, inadvertent contamination.

And the patents are a nonissue. Hybrid plants that other gamers plant routinely are generally covered by similar licensing agreements. And there are always open source or off-patent plants that farmers can use. No one holds a gun to their heads and forces them to buy and sign.

 

[kage69]

Monsanto today is not the same company of old. The chemical division, responsible for things like PCBs and Agent Orange, was sold off long ago.

My issues with Monsanto actually have nothing to do with the substances you and someone else have cited. I encourage you to get a handle on correct attribution before passing judgment on perspectives you nothing little to nothing about.

 

[Brainonska511]

My issues with Monsanto actually have nothing to do with the substances you and someone else have cited. I encourage you to get a handle on correct attribution before passing judgment on perspectives you nothing little to nothing about.

And I encourage you to not whine about a seed gestapo (as that's an entirely false characterization of the situation). As I've mentioned elsewhere here, no one holds a gun to farmers heads. They are business people to who are free to make their own choices. If Monsanto seeds don't make them more money than a competitor's, they wouldn't buy them.

https://www.geneticliteracyproject....ntional-organic-farmers-dont-want-save-seeds/
https://www.geneticliteracyproject....to-sue-farmers-inadvertent-gmo-contamination/

 

[CaptainGoodnight]

... their seed gestapo, ....

An organic seed organisation (OSGATA) tried to take out a class action lawsuit against Monsanto to stop these sorts of lawsuits from happening. The courts threw their case out when OSGATA's own team of lawyers couldn't cite a single occasion of it actually happening, plus not a single one of OSGATA's 300,000 members had ever been threatened with such a lawsuit.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/20...smisses-organic-farmers-case-against-monsanto

 

[thraashman]

I'm glad I'm not the only person who would rather spread factual information than demonize Monsanto for some imagined act and I'm glad other have already posted that the claims of them suing for cross contamination are false. It should also be mentioned that Monsanto was not the only company that manufactured Agent Orange for the US government.

I joined a Facebook page a while back that is dedicated to exposing and correcting the different anti science beliefs of anti GMO activists. And the 3 main perpetrators of such anti science are David "Avacado" Wolfe, Vani Hari (aka the Food Babe), and March Against Monsanto pages. So I've learned a lot about Monsanto because hold crap do these March Against Monsanto people believe some absurd bullshit.

 

[kage69]

And I encourage you to not whine about a seed gestapo (as that's an entirely false characterization of the situation). As I've mentioned elsewhere here, no one holds a gun to farmers heads. They are business people to who are free to make their own choices. If Monsanto seeds don't make them more money than a competitor's, they wouldn't buy them.

https://www.geneticliteracyproject....ntional-organic-farmers-dont-want-save-seeds/
https://www.geneticliteracyproject....to-sue-farmers-inadvertent-gmo-contamination/

I see hyperbole isn't one of your things. No matter. The people who work for Monsanto are known to engage in all sorts of secret-police like surveillance towards people suspected of wronging the company. This is what I was referring to, not rendition and torture.


In a nutshell, I have a big problem with predatory companies who engage in monopolistic practices. I despise the regulatory song and dance that these companies usually orchestrate, where they get to essentially write their own regulations. Their M$ like march through the industry absorbing competitors and strong arming customers is similarly distressing. Look at what has happening to prices since they became king of the mountain, soybeans up over 300%, cotton went through the roof! Monsanto takes advantage of the farmers that do business with it, just like the poultry industry does to it's sorry lot. They lie and manipulate to put people under their boot, and to keep them there. I recall a guy named Dave Runyon getting a good taste of what I'm talking about, look him up. I think the view of farmers having no worries when dealing with Monsanto is pretty laughable actually. Don't tell them you're thinking about buying a competitors seeds!

Sorry, this company is hardly a benevolent, innocent victim here. I understand they had a few spurious cases brought their way, and fended them off, but that doesn't excuse or expunge the rest of what they are responsible for.

 

[Texashiker]

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...h-grant-bayer-takeover-protests?CMP=edit_2221

Recent news shows weeds are cross pollinating with GMO crops and creating superweeds.

Golden rice has been a failure.

The promises made about GMO crops have fallen through.

Probably best to sell while they can.

 

[dainthomas]

People still cry about Monsanto? Lol. If companies like them weren't doing the work they do, a lot more people would be going hungry.

Almost all arable land is currently under production. The only way to increase production is to genetically modify existing cereal crops. Anyone who argues against that is laughably uninformed.

 

[kage69]

People still cry about Monsanto? Lol. If companies like them weren't doing the work they do, a lot more people would be going hungry.

Please elaborate.

What work are you talking about? It's not a zero sum game, you can be in business and not fuck people and the environment over I hope you realize. Monsanto has a much different view on competition than you or I, ask their distributors who want to also carry seeds from other sources.

What other pesticide companies are you talking about? Can you give me an example of another company who was able to get Congress to allow them to plant, develop and sell whatever the hell they wanted even if it was shown to be harmful. State laws? Federal oversight? Monsanto thinks it above all that. The USDA and FDA are it's playthings.

You acting like Monsanto is the victim of a smear, that it's the good guy - just misunderstood...

lol indeed

 

[kage69]

Recent news shows weeds are cross pollinating with GMO crops and creating superweeds.

Golden rice has been a failure.

The promises made about GMO crops have fallen through.

Probably best to sell while they can.

Yep, thanks for the even hardier, 6ft tall pigweed Monsanto. They're lots of fun.

I really hope to hear what it is that Monsanto does that's so great, whatever justifies a >500% price hike in GM corn prices must be pretty epic, although something tells me that part wasn't mentioned at the farmer's convention.

 

[dainthomas]

Please elaborate.

What work are you talking about? It's not a zero sum game, you can be in business and not fuck people and the environment over I hope you realize. Monsanto has a much different view on competition than you or I, ask their distributors who want to also carry seeds from other sources.

What other pesticide companies are you talking about? Can you give me an example of another company who was able to get Congress to allow them to plant, develop and sell whatever the hell they wanted even if it was shown to be harmful. State laws? Federal oversight? Monsanto thinks it above all that. The USDA and FDA are it's playthings.

You acting like Monsanto is the victim of a smear, that it's the good guy - just misunderstood...

lol indeed

GMO technology is completely necessary to increase food production. (With no significant amounts of uncultivated arable land available). They are also good for the environment as they decrease the amount of pesticides, herbicides, and fertilizers required versus a non GMO crop.

The "organic" movement does nothing to increase food production and has no scientifically proven benefits over genetically modified foods.

Could they do some things differently? I'm sure. But if farmers didn't make more money using their products then they wouldn't.