Bay Trail benchmark appears online, crushes fastest Snapdragon ARM SoC

[Khato]

One extremely subjective measurement of the veracity of these Silvermont benchmarks - just how wild the reasons for Intel's certain failure in the market become. It really is amusing how the point of argument has morphed from denial of the Antutu benchmark that basically confirms the numbers on Intel's marketing slide to Intel's past attempts at entering the smartphone and tablet market being proof that they'll fail in the future as well... and now HSA is actually an allied front to block Intel from entering the market!

To comment on the one bit of actual merit in the last page - nice find Sweepr! Guess we're only going to have to wait another 2 months roughly to get actual reviews of Baytrail. This year's IDF just keeps getting better and better! Here's a link to the CPU-World article (which then references VR-Zone) that's claiming the late August/early September launch window for Baytrail-T.

 

[ShintaiDK]

It looks like a bigggggggggg chip

Yet its only 40mm x 24mm x 1.5mm.

 

[galego]

Watch out to not get fooled by the usual benchmark manipulations.
Marketeers won't lie outside the lawyer determined boundaries.
They'll let the journalists and naive fans do all the lying for them.

AnTuTu and Quadrant came into focus when Microsoft choose Nvidia's
Tegra3 for surface tablets as a direct competitor.

For instance this the Atom in the Motorola Razr-i scores better as the
Nvidia Tegra3 in Quadrant but if you go one step further and look at
the subscores in detail then you'll see that the Atom CPU score is just
1/3 of that of the Quad A9 Tegra3.....

source.

The 2GHz Atom with hyper-threading score is second in the list and the
CPU sub-score is the blue piece of the bar.

Furthermore. A benchmark as AnTuTu can easily be abused with
processors that can run in burst-mode at 5+ times or so their
(advertised) TDP. The benchmark is to short to warm up the phone
if you run at a far higher burst mode TDP.

Here's a simple example how the score degrades if you run AnTuTu
multiple times:

source.

And this is with an Arm device without all the high TDP super bursting
features of the Baytrail SOC...

Hans

Excellent post :thumbsup:

 

[rgallant]

TSMC is already catching up on Intel's capex spending, and all they do is build fabs. They may already spend more on fabs than Intel does, certainly with globalfoundries both easily overtake Intel's fab spending. Samsung is about equal to Intel as well (not on fabs obviously).

Your problem is you read too much on Anandtech forums and not enough elsewhere.

that's great , but what if I can't get a 20nm gpu until 3-4q 2014 or 1q 2015 to match my 22nm intel cpu installed in June 2012 ? all fabs don't seem = at this point.

 

[ViRGE]

I've just handed out several infractions and shaved off about a page of posts from this thread, as we'd ideally rather keep it open than have to close it because of the usual idiots.

It goes without saying that this needs to stay on topic. This isn't an AMD thread and this isn't an HSA thread. We will gladly entertain tangental matters, but at some point you need to take it to a new thread rather than trying to derail the current thread.

Also, it goes without saying that the rhetoric needs to be toned down. Passion is good, but cheerleading is not a technical discussion. "Intel is going to kick ARM's butt !1!!1" is slightly less useful than posting nothing at all, at least without some kind of greater insight to share with your peers.

-ViRGE

 

[SiliconWars]

that's great , but what if I can't get a 20nm gpu until 3-4q 2014 or 1q 2015 to match my 22nm intel cpu installed in June 2012 ? all fabs don't seem = at this point.

You're right - they aren't equal.

However Intel is about to equalise things for us enthusiasts by ensuring the "Haswell Refresh" is all we get in 2014, so it'll be 20nm gpu and 22nm cpu.

 

[Zucker2k]

From Francois on Facebook, in reaction to article in link below:

So, let's call a cat, "A CAT" ... there are now people "lying" and providing financial advised, if I were the guys about to lose money on some of those stocks, I would take this firm to court : "we have seen similar benchmarks which clearly score the 1.8GHz Cortex A12 (ie not even the high end A57) ahead of the 2.4GHz Silvermont"
This is a pure lie, the silicon of A12 does not exist, and when it comes to reality, it will not win either. Gareth Jenkins is purely lying right there. This is my personal opinion, my employee did not ask me to post anything here, this is just outrageous, and nobody call them on their ignorance or dishonesty.

http://blogs.barrons.com/techtrader...icensing-overblown-says-ubs/?mod=yahoobarrons

 

[Sweepr]

To comment on the one bit of actual merit in the last page - nice find Sweepr! Guess we're only going to have to wait another 2 months roughly to get actual reviews of Baytrail. This year's IDF just keeps getting better and better! Here's a link to the CPU-World article (which then references VR-Zone) that's claiming the late August/early September launch window for Baytrail-T.

Yes, this kinda goes in line with their plans of accelerating Atom's roadmap. At this point it wouldnt surprise me if Airmont is their first 14nm product (or maybe just a few weeks after Broadwell in mid 2014).

 

[SiliconWars]

From Francois on Facebook, in reaction to article in link below:


http://blogs.barrons.com/techtrader...icensing-overblown-says-ubs/?mod=yahoobarrons

Wasn't he the guy who told us Haswell was an overclockers dream, and that all the previous benchmarks were nothing like what he had seen in his lab?

Btw his ranting seems a bit strange considering that ARM says their current A7's and A15's will beat Silvermont - http://www.techhive.com/article/2040582/arm-claims-processor-superiority-over-intels-silvermont.html

The analyst was probably referring to this image -

“The A15 and A7 on 28-nanometer is outstripping Silvermont on 22-nanometer FinFET,”

If cherry-picked ICC-biased benchmarks are the best Intel has to show, is it any surprise that ARM doesn't seem worried?

 

[Abwx]

Wasn't he the guy who told us Haswell was an overclockers dream, and that all the previous benchmarks were nothing like what he had seen in his lab?

He also said that the early chinese HW leaks were bs
and that the CPU will show numbers of a completely
different level....

Anyway , what could he say else given that he s an
intel official employee?

 

[erunion]

How would ARMH know how fast silvermont is? They have a stolen ES chip in their labs?

(in reality, they don't know. The footnote says the slide is based on Intel claims)

 

[NTMBK]

Wasn't he the guy who told us Haswell was an overclockers dream, and that all the previous benchmarks were nothing like what he had seen in his lab?

Maybe he meant Haswell-E, the version where they remember how to solder things

 

[krumme]

Haswell is a damn fine mobile cpu. And the new Atom is probably going to be a huge step forward and the competition is more than welcome. It just hurts my eyes to see such excellent engineering presented like we are idiots. Sunspider #2 here we come.

Unlike earlier launches the customers is oem market. Its not going with intel inside and bs bm anymore. If i were to advice Intel it would be to trust and stand behind their fine products instead of this b2c advertising. Its not needed. They need to push credibility and commitment for the oem profit. A new attitude and respectfull approach is welcome. They need to tell the oem and partners that. And themselves. They might even like it

 

[krumme]

Haswell is a damn fine mobile cpu. And the new Atom is probably going to be a huge step forward and the competition is more than welcome. It just hurts my eyes to see such excellent engineering presented like we are idiots. Sunspider #2 here we come.

Unlike earlier launches the customers is oem market. Its not going with intel inside and bs bm anymore. If i were to advice Intel it would be to trust and stand behind their fine products instead of this b2c advertising. Its not needed. They need to push credibility and commitment for the oem profit. A new attitude and respectfull approach is welcome. They need to tell the oem and partners that. And themselves. They might even like it

So you think a new "attitude" will make Samsung and Apple buy the cpu? Lol fanboy

 

[krumme]

So you think a new "attitude" will make Samsung and Apple buy the cpu? Lol

No but i think there is a huge market for intel besides the holy thin clients. The market for eg. s4 and ip5 looks to stagnate. There is always a huge place for company like Intel that can make incredible tech. It might even not be meassured in mm2?

 

[USER8000]

Haswell is a damn fine mobile cpu. And the new Atom is probably going to be a huge step forward and the competition is more than welcome. It just hurts my eyes to see such excellent engineering presented like we are idiots. Sunspider #2 here we come.

Unlike earlier launches the customers is oem market. Its not going with intel inside and bs bm anymore. If i were to advice Intel it would be to trust and stand behind their fine products instead of this b2c advertising. Its not needed. They need to push credibility and commitment for the oem profit. A new attitude and respectfull approach is welcome. They need to tell the oem and partners that. And themselves. They might even like it

So you think a new "attitude" will make Samsung and Apple buy the cpu? Lol fanboy

No but i think there is a huge market for intel besides the holy thin clients. The market for eg. s4 and ip5 looks to stagnate. There is always a huge place for company like Intel that can make incredible tech. It might even not be meassured in mm2?

Why are you arguing with yourself??

 

[TuxDave]

I was wondering the same thing. Thought my browser was broken or something.

 

[NTMBK]

Why are you arguing with yourself??

Go home krumme, you're drunk.

 

[zlatan]

Is Baytrail supposed to include Intel GEN gpu XTORS?

Yes. It's an HD Graphics 2500/4000 but with only 4 EUs. The URB cache is reduced, and there will be only one texturing block. Also it's pathetic but the texture channels still don't use four samplers for Gather4.
The iGPU will be a good update compared to GMA 36xx, but compared to the Temash iGPU it won't have a chance. The Adreno 330 will be also faster. I don't know how much. Intel don't have native OpenGL ES 2.0/3.0 implementation so the actual performance is very bad. But I think they will provide usable driver for Android later.

 

[Vesku]

OMG, ARM Intel is doomed. /s

Can we save the 100 page thread for when some real meaty information shows up?

 

[Khato]

Wasn't he the guy who told us Haswell was an overclockers dream, and that all the previous benchmarks were nothing like what he had seen in his lab?

Don't believe so? Only mention I can find him making of Haswell overclocking is this post on twitter. I guess you can take the statement of "Haswell = Overclocking" with a link to a Tom's Hardware article discussing the just-revealed details on Haswell overclocking features to imply that it's an awesome overclocker if you want to... I tend to just take it as a statement that Haswell includes more overclocking features.

Btw his ranting seems a bit strange considering that ARM says their current A7's and A15's will beat Silvermont - http://www.techhive.com/article/2040582/arm-claims-processor-superiority-over-intels-silvermont.html

How well have unsubstantiated powerpoint slides served AMD? If ARM had data on how Silvermont performed and they were winning do you really think that they wouldn't be citing specific figures?

 

[AtenRa]

Why are you arguing with yourself??

ahhahaha and i thought i had too much beer

 

[SiliconWars]

If ARM had data on how Silvermont performed and they were winning do you really think that they wouldn't be citing specific figures?

I like your thinking, however you need to apply it to Intel and not ARM.

Intel already knows how the S800 performs and they chose to show biased and cherry-picked benchmarks as a response. That's what the loser usually does.

Apply everything you've seen AMD's marketing do in the past 5 years in response to Intel and you'll quickly realise that Intel has nothing against Qualcomm. Silvermont will be a good chip, but so many people here are going to be very disappointed in the result if they truly believe that this is a knockout blow to ARM.

 

[SiliconWars]

Btw, on Silvermont's graphics -

Intel claims a 3x improvement over Clovertrail, which to me is likely and realistic. However you have to understand the incredibly low performance they are coming from to see what that means.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7082/...-preview-qualcomm-mobile-development-tablet/6

Even with 3-4x improvement, Intel will still be only half as fast as the S800's Adreno 330, and still lagging far behind Jaguar. So even if the cpu is faster, it'll still feels more sluggish than the main competitors in graphics.

It's still an Atom, remember that.

 

[podspi]

I can't tell whether krumme is winning or losing


Seriously though, while I don't think OEMs are going to be willing to let Intel dominate (like they have in the PC world), I think that they will play ball and move ARM (farther) downmarket if Atom really is compelling. Intel's biggest obstacle (on mobile) at this point is also their greatest strength (on desktop), the ISA. I imagine x86-based phones are going to have lots of trouble running random apps, even moreso than the random incompatibilities that pop up now