Battleship Bismarck

[Pastfinder]

The Discovery Channel has a great program on the wreck of the battleship Bismarck coming on at 9PM EST



I'm a history major, so I love this stuff

just FYI. Be careful, you might learn something :Q

 

[Lars]

Originally posted by: Pastfinder
Be careful, you might learn something

Thanks for the warning.

 

[Evadman]

I love the Bizmark, Titanic, and most shipwrecks. Thanks!

 

[MustangSVT]

Originally posted by: Lars

Originally posted by: Pastfinder
Be careful, you might learn something

Thanks for the warning.

 

[AdamK47]

The Bismark was one big mofo. Too bad that it was taken down so easily.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: AdamK47 - 3DS
The Bismark was one big mofo. Too bad that it was taken down so easily.

If you watch the show (and I remember correctly) I believe you'll find out that it wasn't -- once the rudder was destroyed (a stroke of luck) -- it took a lot of ordinance to take the thing down. Even after hours of bombardment by the british fleet, it is suggested that the thing was actually scuttled by her own crew.

 

[0roo0roo]

not easily at all. its armor was quite insane. flawed against plunging angle shots though, but still. it meant everyone inside might die, but it would take a long time to sink her

which is basically what happened after she got cross fired to death by the angry brits

i so wish it wasn't sunk so deep. walking on her deck would have been so damn kewl

 

[Grasshopper27]

Originally posted by: AdamK47 - 3DS
The Bismark was one big mofo. Too bad that it was taken down so easily.

It was taken down by WWI torpedo bombers that had almost no tatical value whatsoever in any other situation.

The Bizmark is a great example of what happens when you have a super massive powerful ship, but nothing smaller to screen it. You need destroyers, cruisers, carriers, etc. to form a combined arms force.

Today, our powerful carriers never sail alone, they always have a dozen or more ships around them of various sizes, as well as a few subs to boot!

Grasshopper

 

[So]

Originally posted by: grasshopper26

Originally posted by: AdamK47 - 3DS
The Bismark was one big mofo. Too bad that it was taken down so easily.

It was taken down by WWI torpedo bombers that had almost no tatical value whatsoever in any other situation.

The Bizmark is a great example of what happens when you have a super massive powerful ship, but nothing smaller to screen it. You need destroyers, cruisers, carriers, etc. to form a combined arms force.

Today, our powerful carriers never sail alone, they always have a dozen or more ships around them of various sizes, as well as a few subs to boot!

Grasshopper

Very good point -- That is, quite possibly the best lesson learned from the Bismark's demise.

 

[WinkOsmosis]

History Channel isn't about history. It's about stories. Find me a channel that looks at the big picture and I'll show you a history channel.

 

[rome]

the bismarck "was" floating kick ass, and yes the brits emptied their magazine's out on that bad boy heh.

 

[0roo0roo]

well it also got lucky and went up against the hood, which was fatally flawed more over loaded battle cruiser then battleship, not enuph armor. was set for a retrofit i think, never got around to it prince of whales was too new and untested, one gun even failed, sad really

 

[tm37]

Originally posted by: grasshopper26

Originally posted by: AdamK47 - 3DS
The Bismark was one big mofo. Too bad that it was taken down so easily.

It was taken down by WWI torpedo bombers that had almost no tatical value whatsoever in any other situation.

The Bizmark is a great example of what happens when you have a super massive powerful ship, but nothing smaller to screen it. You need destroyers, cruisers, carriers, etc. to form a combined arms force.

Today, our powerful carriers never sail alone, they always have a dozen or more ships around them of various sizes, as well as a few subs to boot!

Grasshopper

WHn I was at sea we called thoose ships "blockers" or TARGETS

 

[Pastfinder]

Incredible camera footage. Bump for kicking ass

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Pastfinder
Incredible camera footage. Bump for kicking ass

Unfortunately, I have no cable here at college. Oh well, I'm having my parents tape it for me so I can watch it when I go home next week.

 

[0roo0roo]

Today, our powerful carriers never sail alone, they always have a dozen or more ships around them of various sizes, as well as a few subs to boot!

Grasshopper

apparently not according to the movie sum nof all fears

i so hate that movie, and affleck even more so.

 

[So]

Where in sum of all fears did they show an unescorted carrier?

 

[bizmark]

just thought that I *had* to make an appearance in this thread

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: So
Where in sum of all fears did they show an unescorted carrier?

when the russian jets fired two missles at one.

 

[MadRat]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: So
Where in sum of all fears did they show an unescorted carrier?

when the russian jets fired two missles at one.

I think it was more than two missiles fired, but that is in the movies and not real life. The Soviets never officially tracked a carrier successfully for longer than a three day stretch. There are alot of ways to hide a ship, even that big, on the open ocean.

 

[optoman]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: So
Where in sum of all fears did they show an unescorted carrier?

when the russian jets fired two missles at one.

Little off topic, but I thought that part in the movie was really bad. How could the planes get in so close and past all the escorts. I don't think it would be possible but it is a movie. And didn't they fire around 10 missles at the carrier and only 2 got past the sea wiz?

 

[JACKHAMMER]

For what it is worth (didn't have time to watch the show) I actually have talked at length to one of the bismark survivors and he instists that they scuttled it.

 

[Darein]

The program had some good animation as well, although discovery is usually pretty good at that stuff, better than the history channel usually.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: optoman

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: So
Where in sum of all fears did they show an unescorted carrier?

when the russian jets fired two missles at one.

Little off topic, but I thought that part in the movie was really bad. How could the planes get in so close and past all the escorts. I don't think it would be possible but it is a movie. And didn't they fire around 10 missles at the carrier and only 2 got past the sea wiz?

not to mention those soviet jets seemed to have stealth capability.. how they got that close without reaction.. ah bleh. bad movie. i'm sure clancy is sorta embarrassed about it when he's not counting his money

 

[Grasshopper27]

Originally posted by: So
Where in sum of all fears did they show an unescorted carrier?

When the carrier was hit by the Russian AS-4 "Kitchen" anti-ship missiles fired by what I think were Su-24 Fencers

Su-24 Fencer

AS-4 Kitchen

The flaw in the movie of course is that the AS-4 isn't fired by the Su-24 Fencer, rather by the Tu-22 Blinder or the Tu-22 Backfire. If I'm wrong and Tu-22 Blinders were used in the movie, please correct me, but I was sure I was looking at Su-24 Fencers.

What makes them so deadly is their 300 mile range which is quite far for any air launched missile (other than a cruise missile of course).

What you saw in that movie shooting down some of the missiles was the MK 15 Phalanx Close-In Weapons System (CIWS)

MK 15 Phalanx

The truth is, with a dozen ships around the carrier, an AWACS aircraft in the air, several F-14 and F/A-18 fighters running patrols, it is unlikely a half dozen airplanes could hit a carrier. Any AS-4s launched could be intercepted by either Standard Missiles launched from destroyers and crusiers, or from AIM-54 Phenoix missiles launched from the F-14s.

Standard Missile

AIM-54 Phoenix

Now, that isn't to say the carrier is invincable, it just says that 6 airplanes can't hit it. If you launched a force of 30 or 40 airplanes after it, you might well get it. You have to be able to overwhelm the defenses and have enough left over to do the job.

Grasshopper