Battlefield 3 64 Players on PC only and Jets confirmed

[Ackmed]

The jets were the absolute worst part about BF2.

I agree. At least in Desert Combat for 1943, you could actually shoot them down. There is zero chance you could ever kill a jet with a skilled pilot in BF2. It got to where I wouldnt play maps with them.

 

[Eugene86]

I never understood the complaints about jets. If the pilot is skilled, then why should the AA be buffed so that any noob can just hop in and shoot him down right away?
It takes time and effort to learn how to fly well so why should a skilled pilot not be rewarded with a large amount of kills, that he rightfully earns, if the enemy team is too stupid to do anything about him?
Its the same thing with snipers, people complain about them as well all the time. They're not really that effective in most players' hands anyways and its only the really skilled ones that can be a pain in the ass. Most people usually get killed by other classes but seem to get pissed off when a sniper kills them. Besides, there are so many ways to counter them anyways. There are so many terrible players who will keep doing the same thing over and over without learning and then bitch about it. If you keep getting sniped in a certain area, DON'T keep going there over and over and try to flank the sniper if you want to take him out.

I'm just so happy that developers generally don't take a lot of advice off forums and such. Otherwise we'd be playing a game with no vehicles, no aircraft, and with only one class to choose from so that everyone would be equal.

 

[Maximilian]

I never understood the complaints about jets. If the pilot is skilled, then why should the AA be buffed so that any noob can just hop in and shoot him down right away?
It takes time and effort to learn how to fly well so why should a skilled pilot not be rewarded with a large amount of kills, that he rightfully earns, if the enemy team is too stupid to do anything about him?
Its the same thing with snipers, people complain about them as well all the time. They're not really that effective in most players' hands anyways and its only the really skilled ones that can be a pain in the ass. Most people usually get killed by other classes but seem to get pissed off when a sniper kills them. Besides, there are so many ways to counter them anyways. There are so many terrible players who will keep doing the same thing over and over without learning and then bitch about it. If you keep getting sniped in a certain area, DON'T keep going there over and over and try to flank the sniper if you want to take him out.

I'm just so happy that developers generally don't take a lot of advice off forums and such. Otherwise we'd be playing a game with no vehicles, no aircraft, and with only one class to choose from so that everyone would be equal.

Its because they had no chance at all vs the snipers or jets, all the other classes they had a chance to kill them first but were unlucky etc.

Snipers are the most worthless annoying class in any game, i stabbed 5 in a row in bad company 2 the other day, all 5 were camping on the same hill and had shot me numerous times prior to that, their team lost every single game as well. There should be a limit on snipers. They dont cap points, their kdr's are nothing to write home about, they dont provide ammo or medibags, they just piss off their own team and the opposing team.

 

[Red Storm]

Its because they had no chance at all vs the snipers or jets, all the other classes they had a chance to kill them first but were unlucky etc.

Snipers are the most worthless annoying class in any game, i stabbed 5 in a row in bad company 2 the other day, all 5 were camping on the same hill and had shot me numerous times prior to that, their team lost every single game as well. There should be a limit on snipers. They dont cap points, their kdr's are nothing to write home about, they dont provide ammo or medibags, they just piss off their own team and the opposing team.

This.

They are universally hated in almost all games because of the fact that they are designed to engage you in uneven fights i.e. they can kill you, but you can't kill them. It's why they are annoying. People like to win (and lose) fights that they actually partake in.

 

[CVSiN]

I never understood the complaints about jets. If the pilot is skilled, then why should the AA be buffed so that any noob can just hop in and shoot him down right away?
It takes time and effort to learn how to fly well so why should a skilled pilot not be rewarded with a large amount of kills, that he rightfully earns, if the enemy team is too stupid to do anything about him?
Its the same thing with snipers, people complain about them as well all the time. They're not really that effective in most players' hands anyways and its only the really skilled ones that can be a pain in the ass. Most people usually get killed by other classes but seem to get pissed off when a sniper kills them. Besides, there are so many ways to counter them anyways. There are so many terrible players who will keep doing the same thing over and over without learning and then bitch about it. If you keep getting sniped in a certain area, DON'T keep going there over and over and try to flank the sniper if you want to take him out.

I'm just so happy that developers generally don't take a lot of advice off forums and such. Otherwise we'd be playing a game with no vehicles, no aircraft, and with only one class to choose from so that everyone would be equal.

Sorry in real life Shoulder fired AA missiles destroy fighters.. as do fixed and mobile AA guns.

In the game there were not enough counter measures against aircraft.
I'm all for having them in the game.. but there should be a way to defend against them that is way better than BF2.

In real life the skill is not dropping bombs on target.. it's evading AA missiles as well as fighter interceptors. the computer in modern fighter jets does all the bombing computations all the pilot has to do is press the "pickle" when the computer tellls him to..
not alot of skill there any more. the chore is staying on path to do so with defenses..

 

[Eugene86]

Its because they had no chance at all vs the snipers or jets, all the other classes they had a chance to kill them first but were unlucky etc.

I know many people, including myself, who have no problem taking out snipers and aircraft. As a matter of fact, its easier for me to counter-snipe a sniper with either my machine gun as a medic or with my sub machine gun as an engineer.
The point is, you can't just dumb down a game because people refuse to learn how to take out jets/snipers/whatever it is that pisses them off.

Sorry in real life Shoulder fired AA missiles destroy fighters.. as do fixed and mobile AA guns.

In the game there were not enough counter measures against aircraft.
I'm all for having them in the game.. but there should be a way to defend against them that is way better than BF2.

In real life the skill is not dropping bombs on target.. it's evading AA missiles as well as fighter interceptors. the computer in modern fighter jets does all the bombing computations all the pilot has to do is press the "pickle" when the computer tellls him to..
not alot of skill there any more. the chore is staying on path to do so with defenses..

Sorry but in real life shoulder fired AA missiles are used against helicopters primarily and not fighters since they are very fast and have a very high chance of evading the missile. Same thing with the fixed and mobile AA guns. Most would not be able to hit a fighter anyways. But let's not even bother getting into this conversation.

If you want an AA system in BF3 that will take out fighters on the first shot, then why even bother with that? You may as well just introduce a button or key bind in the game that destroys any aircraft once they start to annoy you. Fighter pilots need to be able to survive for a little bit as well, otherwise why even have jets in the first place?

 

[dudeofdur]

Its because they had no chance at all vs the snipers or jets, all the other classes they had a chance to kill them first but were unlucky etc.

Snipers are the most worthless annoying class in any game, i stabbed 5 in a row in bad company 2 the other day, all 5 were camping on the same hill and had shot me numerous times prior to that, their team lost every single game as well. There should be a limit on snipers. They dont cap points, their kdr's are nothing to write home about, they dont provide ammo or medibags, they just piss off their own team and the opposing team.

first of all i totally agreed on the cap. but snipers are useful in many ways. Spotting is a big one considering theres a big advantage to knowing where the enemy is. also the mortar strike comes in handy for flushing out choke points. Last time i played sniper my kdr was 10:1 with gol mag. However it gets ridiculous when everbody goes sniper and nothing happens... so maybe limit one sniper to a squad and force everbody to join squads?

 

[dudeofdur]

This.

They are universally hated in almost all games because of the fact that they are designed to engage you in uneven fights i.e. they can kill you, but you can't kill them. It's why they are annoying. People like to win (and lose) fights that they actually partake in.

well most people that complain run around in the open in straight lines like idiots and don't even bother to find cover. even if you go against a good sniper stuff like smoke cover can still be used, they just need to find balance. as long as they don't have one hit ko sniper rifles its still fun.

 

[Paul98]

If the Pilot's are good enough there is about nothing you can do against them. Sure there is a chance you can get them down but even if you do they will have most likely done so much damage that it won't matter anyway.

As for being rewarded for being good at flying, that would be valid if other good players had a chance against you. But it doesn't matter how good you have gotten you will still get raped by air assets.


Snipers on the other hand are nothing special.

 

[CVSiN]

I know many people, including myself, who have no problem taking out snipers and aircraft. As a matter of fact, its easier for me to counter-snipe a sniper with either my machine gun as a medic or with my sub machine gun as an engineer.
The point is, you can't just dumb down a game because people refuse to learn how to take out jets/snipers/whatever it is that pisses them off.



Sorry but in real life shoulder fired AA missiles are used against helicopters primarily and not fighters since they are very fast and have a very high chance of evading the missile. Same thing with the fixed and mobile AA guns. Most would not be able to hit a fighter anyways. But let's not even bother getting into this conversation.

If you want an AA system in BF3 that will take out fighters on the first shot, then why even bother with that? You may as well just introduce a button or key bind in the game that destroys any aircraft once they start to annoy you. Fighter pilots need to be able to survive for a little bit as well, otherwise why even have jets in the first place?

And you would be 100% wrong..
10 years working on F/A-18C D and E Hornets. AT2 USN
Working in Avionics and countermeasures.

I have the real life experience to back up what I say.
modern shoulder fired weapons as well as mobile and fixed AA (guns as well as missle battieries) will tear a modern fighter/ground attack aircraft to pieces.. that's why my jammers countermeasures and other top secret systems are so important on modern aircraft.
does it make it fool proof and easy? nope still takes ALOT of pilot skill to evade and defeat a missle or high tech gun system..
We had NUMEROUS Hornets and A-7s and even A-6s come back with HEAVY gun damage and missile debris damage to them during Desert Storm 1 and had several fatalities..

The below quote says flat out that LOW FLYING (yes that is a key word) as ALL engagements in BF2/3 are low altitude and are pertinent. Iraq and Desert Storm were not the best examples as the training and implementation of the Iraqi defenses was horrible but it does stand that the weapons even last generation are effective against fast movers as well as rotary wing aircraft.

Iraqi antiaircraft defenses, including shoulder-launched ground-to-air missiles, were surprisingly ineffective against coalition aircraft and the coalition suffered only 75 aircraft losses in over 100,000 sorties, though only 42 of these were the result of Iraqi action. The other 33 were lost to accidents.[12] In particular, RAF and U.S. Navy aircraft which flew at low altitudes to avoid radar were particularly vulnerable, though this changed when the aircrews were ordered to fly above the AAA.[13]

 

[zerocool84]

lol @ trying to say that since air is very powerful in real life it should be really powerful and unbalanced in a game. It's a video game and unbalanced video games suck, just how it is. Sorry but a helicopter or jet fighter cannot magically get more ammo and repair itself by flying close to the airstrip or it's landing pad. This is the #1 reason why air is overpowered in BF2. Too easy to reload and repair. AA sucking just adds to the problem.

 

[Maximilian]

I know many people, including myself, who have no problem taking out snipers and aircraft. As a matter of fact, its easier for me to counter-snipe a sniper with either my machine gun as a medic or with my sub machine gun as an engineer.
The point is, you can't just dumb down a game because people refuse to learn how to take out jets/snipers/whatever it is that pisses them off.

Well if he hasn't seen you then yeah, but if hes looking right at you or even in your direction 9 times out of 10 you will die in a long range engagement with a sniper when you have an assault rifle or MG. Which is fine, im not knocking snipers because i cant kill them its because when theres too many its just cheap for the opposing team and the team with too many snipers will likely lose anyway due to their inability to cap points. BG for all involved...

Its not dumbing down the game, its balancing it, snipers in general are the least useful class. Dudeofdur made a good point about them spotting which is actually very useful i never thought about that but when 7-8 of your 16 player team are sniping and spotting it nullifies the advantage as out on the field you will be outnumbered significantly by the other team who arent sitting behind a rock/tree and are out actively taking points and pushing forward.

 

[Eugene86]

And you would be 100% wrong..
10 years working on F/A-18C D and E Hornets. AT2 USN
Working in Avionics and countermeasures.

I have the real life experience to back up what I say.
modern shoulder fired weapons as well as mobile and fixed AA (guns as well as missle battieries) will tear a modern fighter/ground attack aircraft to pieces.. that's why my jammers countermeasures and other top secret systems are so important on modern aircraft.
does it make it fool proof and easy? nope still takes ALOT of pilot skill to evade and defeat a missle or high tech gun system..
We had NUMEROUS Hornets and A-7s and even A-6s come back with HEAVY gun damage and missile debris damage to them during Desert Storm 1 and had several fatalities..

The below quote says flat out that LOW FLYING (yes that is a key word) as ALL engagements in BF2/3 are low altitude and are pertinent. Iraq and Desert Storm were not the best examples as the training and implementation of the Iraqi defenses was horrible but it does stand that the weapons even last generation are effective against fast movers as well as rotary wing aircraft.

Iraqi antiaircraft defenses, including shoulder-launched ground-to-air missiles, were surprisingly ineffective against coalition aircraft and the coalition suffered only 75 aircraft losses in over 100,000 sorties, though only 42 of these were the result of Iraqi action. The other 33 were lost to accidents.[12] In particular, RAF and U.S. Navy aircraft which flew at low altitudes to avoid radar were particularly vulnerable, though this changed when the aircrews were ordered to fly above the AAA.[13]

So after everything that you just wrote, you basically summarized exactly what I have said in your last paragraph...
Nobody is saying that aircraft are not vulnerable to ground fire, be it AAA or missile based, but as you just wrote yourself, out of over 100,000 sorties only 42 aircraft were shot down... That seems like a pretty damn good survival rate to me.

And just to clear this up, I'm NOT trying to say that since air power is powerful in real life it should be powerful in the game. I agree that the game must be balanced and directed towards having a good time. But what you guys seem to be proposing is that once an aircraft is to take off, it should be very easy to shoot it down. Then what the hell is the point of even having aircraft if they can't do their job?
I've never had an issue shooting down aircraft with a squad that properly interacted with each other. If you're on a pubbie team with half the players running around like chickens with their heads cut off, then I'm not surprised that the aircraft are such an issue.

 

[Eugene86]

And I agree that the airplanes should have to land to repair and re-arm. It's kinda stupid that you can just fly over the airfield and have it done in a few seconds.

 

[Bill Brasky]

Snipers are the most worthless annoying class in any game, i stabbed 5 in a row in bad company 2 the other day, all 5 were camping on the same hill and had shot me numerous times prior to that, their team lost every single game as well. There should be a limit on snipers. They dont cap points, their kdr's are nothing to write home about, they dont provide ammo or medibags, they just piss off their own team and the opposing team.

I understand what you're talking about, but there is a HUGE distinction between sniping and playing recon. On certain conquest maps, I usually score the highest on my team playing recon. Also, I take a lot of pride in my motion mine placement because knowing where your enemy is coming from is an enormous advantage.

My favorite setup for recon is USAS auto shottie, c4, extra ammo, and extended magazines because I can play highly aggressive. In CQC with motion mines, it can not be stopped. Obviously this doesn't work on hardcore servers since there isn't a mini-map.

 

[CVSiN]

So after everything that you just wrote, you basically summarized exactly what I have said in your last paragraph...
Nobody is saying that aircraft are not vulnerable to ground fire, be it AAA or missile based, but as you just wrote yourself, out of over 100,000 sorties only 42 aircraft were shot down... That seems like a pretty damn good survival rate to me.

And just to clear this up, I'm NOT trying to say that since air power is powerful in real life it should be powerful in the game. I agree that the game must be balanced and directed towards having a good time. But what you guys seem to be proposing is that once an aircraft is to take off, it should be very easy to shoot it down. Then what the hell is the point of even having aircraft if they can't do their job?
I've never had an issue shooting down aircraft with a squad that properly interacted with each other. If you're on a pubbie team with half the players running around like chickens with their heads cut off, then I'm not surprised that the aircraft are such an issue.

Those 42 were almost all in the first 48 hours of fighting.. against a clearly unprepared enemy. had this been against Russia or China the losses would have been much nastier.
we just bombed them into oblivion and gained total air superiority VERY quickly. I was there... the damaged aircraft did not get shot down but also did not complete their sorties either still making the point valid for a game.. We should eb able to keep the pilots busy enough where they cannot deliver thier payloads 100% of the time.

The point was that even shoulder fired weps are effective against fast movers which you said it was not.
as well as Gun systems especially the larger ZSU's with properly trained and motivated crews will tear a jet to pieces..

 

[Ackmed]

Well I was going to reply but it seems CVSiN has taken care of it.

No matter what happens in real life, this is a video game. And BF2 is very unbalanced towards jets. This is a fact. Sure it takes time to be really good at flying. But you cannot be "good" enough to take down a skilled pilot. Mainly because they fly so fast, and pretty much have infinite health/flares. You can never do enough damage on one pass. I really hope they learned their lesson, and dont make the same mistake.

Gulf of Oman is one of my favorite maps, and will be in BF3. I will not play with 32/64 players if jets are over powered though.

 

[Eugene86]

Those 42 were almost all in the first 48 hours of fighting.. against a clearly unprepared enemy. had this been against Russia or China the losses would have been much nastier.
we just bombed them into oblivion and gained total air superiority VERY quickly. I was there... the damaged aircraft did not get shot down but also did not complete their sorties either still making the point valid for a game.. We should eb able to keep the pilots busy enough where they cannot deliver thier payloads 100% of the time.

The point was that even shoulder fired weps are effective against fast movers which you said it was not.
as well as Gun systems especially the larger ZSU's with properly trained and motivated crews will tear a jet to pieces..

I can make the same parallel, with the unprepared Iraqi army being the regular pubbies you see on servers who don't know how to play and the Russians/Chinese being the players who actually know what they're doing. But honestly, I don't wanna bother arguing over this.

Anyways, I think the AA that is in BF2 should be reworked. I, personally, really liked the system they had in Desert Combat in BF 1942. You had a stinger missile launcher that shot a very fast missile towards the airplane, which flew faster than the Gustav in BC2. It was not guided and did not drop as it flew further but it did have a proximity fuse and would explode when it got close to the airplane. This way you didn't have to actually hit the airplane dead on but could still damage it.
With the current system in BF2, the only thing you can really do is lock on to the airplane and launch the missile, but once it is in flight, your shot is basically at the mercy of the missile's path finding towards the plane. With the Desert Combat system, you could aim ahead of the plane and estimate the shot at least.

 

[Arsinek]

I want to know, can you look to the side while running? They add that and Ill be happy.

 

[DannyLove]

HEEEEEELLLLLLL YEAAAAAAAAAAAAA, time to resurrect my clan!

 

[TehMac]

WTF, where is my post about China?

Is China going to be a faction? Also http://redux.com/f/1985611/Battlefield-3-Can-Take-Up-to-256-Players

 

[DarkKnightDude]

If they added 128 player servers, that'll be nuts.

But it depends on the map design, imagine Karkand with 128 players.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

If they added 128 player servers, that'll be nuts.

But it depends on the map design, imagine Karkand with 128 players.

It's already been confirmed at 64 players on PC.