battery died in Z4, replaced it, now won't start. EDIT: BAD STARTER KILLED BATTERY

[LTC8K6]

Those numbers sound okay to me.

Have you tried a spare key?

 

[TechBoyJK]

yea i lost my spare about 2 months ago.. havent gotten a new one yet. slacker.. i know

 

[Possessed Freak]

Eh, borrow a neighbor's battery just for testing purposes. A known good battery will solve that part of the equation.

 

[TechBoyJK]

I called the service department and they said there is a safety switch connected to the battery that if jarred to hard will break and disconnect the starter. this is to stop the car from running in case of an accident. they said it could possibly be that.

i have free towing via insurance, and my CPO deductible is only $50

I already called in sick today and wasted a sick day. I'm about to give up and have it towed up to the stealer. ugh

 

[Kirby]

I called the service department and they said there is a safety switch connected to the battery that if jarred to hard will break and disconnect the starter. this is to stop the car from running in case of an accident. they said it could possibly be that.

i have free towing via insurance, and my CPO deductible is only $50

I already called in sick today and wasted a sick day. I'm about to give up and have it towed up to the stealer. ugh

find the switch
fix it
save $50
...
profit?

 

[TechBoyJK]

find the switch
fix it
save $50
...
profit?

The problem is that I don't know if it's the switch or not. I could go through the hassle of ordering one, waiting, spending the time to fix it, and then find out its not the problem.

 

[Q]

I called the service department and they said there is a safety switch connected to the battery that if jarred to hard will break and disconnect the starter. this is to stop the car from running in case of an accident. they said it could possibly be that.

i have free towing via insurance, and my CPO deductible is only $50

I already called in sick today and wasted a sick day. I'm about to give up and have it towed up to the stealer. ugh

Well it's either take it to the stealer, get a guarantee fix, spend more than you needed, or take another sick day, miss work, lose money anyway?

 

[Zargon]

well it's either take it to the stealer, get a guarantee fix that is likely not correct, spend more than you needed, or take another sick day, miss work, lose money anyway?

ftfy

 

[KK]

I called the service department and they said there is a safety switch connected to the battery that if jarred to hard will break and disconnect the starter. this is to stop the car from running in case of an accident. they said it could possibly be that.

i have free towing via insurance, and my CPO deductible is only $50

I already called in sick today and wasted a sick day. I'm about to give up and have it towed up to the stealer. ugh

Is that the switch that has explosives on it? ANyways, would it be possible to bypass the switch?

 

[MrWizzard]

Not that this will help you but BMWs can be a pain in the but to jump-start. My father has a 2003 E39 M5. He didn't drive it for a few months so the battery died. So he jumped-started it. Turns out if you jump-start it from the battery you fry the GPS board because it’s built into where the battery is. You have to jump it from some poles in the trunk instead..... BMW says the GPS is 3k to fix. Other M5 owners have done the same. It's just how they are built. Hope you didn't fry anything.

 

[LTC8K6]

I would think he'd have heard the pyrotechnic fuse go off if it was that.

 

[kornphlake]

If it's turning, it's not the anti-theft.

My toyota with the toyota anti-theft (chipped key) will crank if a key without the chip is placed in the ignition (I have a spare key without a chip just for opening doors if the keys get locked inside.) The security system disables the fuel injectors if the chip isn't present, all other systems function properly including the starter. There are a few different approaches to implementing anti-theft.

 

[Kirby]

The problem is that I don't know if it's the switch or not. I could go through the hassle of ordering one, waiting, spending the time to fix it, and then find out its not the problem.

With a multimeter you can probably check it to see if it's working. You got a factory service manual?

 

[TechBoyJK]

I think I figured out how to get it fixed.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/techboyjk/IMG00522.jpg

 

[Zenmervolt]

I had the alternator go on a car, it was very obvious what was happening. When I pulled up to a stop the lights would dim, the radio would cut in and out, etc. If the car runs fine but has trouble starting it sounds more like a battery issue.

Based on the description in the OP, it does sound more like a computer problem. Everything works with the new battery except that the car doesn't start. Sounds like it may very well be a security system issue.

Even a battery that's on its way out should be topped-up enough after a moderate drive to get a warm engine to fire. If the car started at work and then refused to start when he got home, then the battery wasn't getting topped off properly. This doesn't mean the alternator is dead, but something sure seems marginal to me.

I had an alternator die completely, at night. The car ran entirely off the battery for my entire drive home (about 45 minutes) and nothing electrical went wonky until I was literally pulling into my driveway when the voltage had dipped low enough that the the turn signal drew enough current for the brake fluid warning light to flash in time with the turn signal. If the charging system light hadn't come on at the start of the drive, I'd have never noticed an issue.

Unless your charging system is wonky, even a marginal battery should be in better shape immediately after a 30-45 minute drive than it was before. If the battery is losing charge even when the car is running, something's wrong. It may well not be shot entirely, but it seems like it might fail a load test. Or the OP's commute is really short. There are dozens of possibilities, but I'd want to at least load test the charging system if it were my car.

ZV

 

[Quiksilver]

I think I figured out how to get it fixed.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/techboyjk/IMG00522.jpg

ROFL at the tow trucks logo/motto.

 

[halik]

I have a 2004 bmw z4 3.0 with 72k miles. it had the original battery in it.

over the past week I started noticing that my electrical system seemed weak. it was getting harder and harder to start my car, the top was struggling to go up and down, etc.

Yesterday, I went to start it after work, and it really struggled. I thought it might be my starter, but on my way home I cranked the stereo, AC, car seat heaters, etc. so I could try and put as much drain on the battery as possible. When I got home and parked it in my garage, I shut it down, and tried to restart it. It struggled to start (as if the battery were dead) and never turned over. Stereo struggled, etc. Battery was dead. I jumped it and it worked fine.

I had the battery tested and it tested bad.

So I bought a new one, and it fits perfectly. Has the vent and all. Got it hooked up, and all the electronics work fine. Everything seems ok.

however, now it just won't start. I go to turn it over and it just clicks. Nothing.

I read online where someone had a similar problem, and it had to do with security codes (anti theft) being reset. They had to go have their keyfob reconfigured to the car.

I'm going to talk to the dealer tomorrow but I'm just curious if anybody has any experience with changing batteries on a bmw and if they think it could be anything else.

Thanks!

Dead alternator

 

[Bartman39]

Just and I mean just had a Z4 do the same thing (last week)... Guess what put a new battery in and still would`nt start...

Checked the silly switch you were talking about its right beside the battery and was good...

Uh changed the starter and bingo...! Realized the low voltage from the weak battery caused the starter to die as well... Its been fine ever since... BTW was a 2004 as well...

 

[Spicedaddy]

Dead alternator

Yep, that was my thought also.

Old battery slowly went dead because alternator wasn't charging it. Put in a new battery, it works for a while and then dies... = charging problem

 

[Zenmervolt]

Realized the low voltage from the weak battery caused the starter to die as well...

It would take almost forever for low voltage to kill a starter. Low voltage kills electric motors by increasing amp draw and overheating. A starter motor doesn't run long enough to overheat (unless a mechanically-insensitive owner tries to keep it cranking for an excessively long time, in which case it's operator error and not low voltage) and if a battery is down far enough that it's supplying low voltage to the starter, the amperage is also going to be low.

Electric motors are typically rated for +/- 10% of nominal voltage. A "12-volt" starter motor should be able to survive anything from just under 11 volts to just over 13 volts for extended periods of time. An automotive SLI battery will have just over 12.6 volts at full charge and if it's down to 12.0 volts, it's considered to be at a 0% state of charge. By the time it's down to 12.0 volts (unloaded), it's probably not even going to trip the solenoid. Even with a dead battery that can't trip the solenoid, the starter motor would still be within its rated +/- 10%.

I mean, I can see a freak combination of factors potentially causing an issue, but it's ridiculously unlikely.

ZV

 

[jlee]

It would take almost forever for low voltage to kill a starter. Low voltage kills electric motors by increasing amp draw and overheating. A starter motor doesn't run long enough to overheat (unless a mechanically-insensitive owner tries to keep it cranking for an excessively long time, in which case it's operator error and not low voltage) and if a battery is down far enough that it's supplying low voltage to the starter, the amperage is also going to be low.

Electric motors are typically rated for +/- 10% of nominal voltage. A "12-volt" starter motor should be able to survive anything from just under 11 volts to just over 13 volts for extended periods of time. An automotive SLI battery will have just over 12.6 volts at full charge and if it's down to 12.0 volts, it's considered to be at a 0% state of charge. By the time it's down to 12.0 volts (unloaded), it's probably not even going to trip the solenoid. Even with a dead battery that can't trip the solenoid, the starter motor would still be within its rated +/- 10%.

I mean, I can see a freak combination of factors potentially causing an issue, but it's ridiculously unlikely.

ZV

Hmm, maybe I need to replace my battery before it dies on me...on 'acc' with the stereo on, it'll drop from 12.4-ish to 12 flat after not too much time.

 

[LTC8K6]

The way I read the OP, he never got the car started after replacing the battery.

 

[Bartman39]

The way I read the OP, he never got the car started after replacing the battery

Exactly the reason for the starter being the issue now... Trust me I scratched my head out in the frick`in heat trying to figure out why it would not crank...? I too called Bubba`s Motor Works (BMW) and they said the same thing about the switch mentioned but nothing else other than possibly the starter which it turned out to be... The alternator could be bad or weak and the original cause of things but come on guys a hot new battery tells the tale the frick`in starter is toast...


Zenmervolt... I understand what you mean it sure it does not make alot of sense but hey I`ve had alot of strange stuff with 12 volt and even stranger stuff with 24 volt systems... Right now I have a 12 volt system in a Sullair 185Q air compressor that will crank right up but run it for say an hour and shut it down... Then try to recrank it and the it will not even click at the starter... Let it cool down for about 45 min to an hour and it will fire up no problem... Yep it heat soaks but what the real strange part is I found out the solenoid gets its ground through the starter motor itself because its built in and is not replaceable unless you change the whole starter... The starter was replaced new like 6 months ago but because of it being a piece of construction equipment there is little or no warranty and dont want to change it again at $400 a pop and is still working... So just tell who ever I send it out to to not shut it down or they have to wait for it to cool off... The guys have got smart and at lunch put a fan on it so it only takes like 30 min for it will fire up again... When it dies fully we will replace it but hey we improvise to save $$$...

Sorry but I dont buy into the 12 volts being a state of 0 % charge as I have seen to many times a battery draw down to as low as 9 volts still crank an engine over but it fails to start because of the ignition system requiring atleast 10 volts to operate (meaning the battery has a bad cell)... Yes the lower the voltage the higher the amp draw which can be almost double of what is normal and heat then becomes the killing factor of the starter and its componets and over a period of time its not to hard to figure out... This is just the real world experience I have have seen over the 30+ years as an aircraft/auto/heavy truck & equipment mechanic and for the past few years the heavy shop & logistics superintendant for my construction company... This not to say to step on anyone`s toes either its just what I have seen and learned over a long period of time...

 

[Zenmervolt]

Zenmervolt... I understand what you mean it sure it does not make alot of sense but hey I`ve had alot of strange stuff with 12 volt and even stranger stuff with 24 volt systems...

I'm not challenging the fact that the starter had died too, it just seems more coincidental than causal. I've seen my share of cars with chronically-weak starters (come to think of it, they're usually British or German). British is probably because of Lucas, and I'm guessing the German problem is the same as with every other uniquely German issue: The German engineers tend to believe that they're so incredibly good that they don't need a margin of error.

Sorry but I dont buy into the 12 volts being a state of 0 % charge as I have seen to many times a battery draw down to as low as 9 volts still crank an engine over but it fails to start because of the ignition system requiring atleast 10 volts to operate (meaning the battery has a bad cell)...

My fault. I should have specified 12.0 volts as a no-load voltage. You're absolutely right that even a good battery will draw down to much less while cranking.

ZV

 

[futuristicmonkey]

It would take almost forever for low voltage to kill a starter. Low voltage kills electric motors by increasing amp draw and overheating. A starter motor doesn't run long enough to overheat (unless a mechanically-insensitive owner tries to keep it cranking for an excessively long time, in which case it's operator error and not low voltage) and if a battery is down far enough that it's supplying low voltage to the starter, the amperage is also going to be low.

Electric motors are typically rated for +/- 10% of nominal voltage. A "12-volt" starter motor should be able to survive anything from just under 11 volts to just over 13 volts for extended periods of time. An automotive SLI battery will have just over 12.6 volts at full charge and if it's down to 12.0 volts, it's considered to be at a 0% state of charge. By the time it's down to 12.0 volts (unloaded), it's probably not even going to trip the solenoid. Even with a dead battery that can't trip the solenoid, the starter motor would still be within its rated +/- 10%.

I mean, I can see a freak combination of factors potentially causing an issue, but it's ridiculously unlikely.

ZV

I'm gonna second this. If the voltage did get too low to start causing problems the starter contactor would have dropped out.