Batman AA fiasco: Who's telling the truth?

[Ben90]

I dont have the advanced knowledge as Schmide, Seero, and others that have contributed to this thread; but I can understand the issue now after this long debate, the two sides are as follows:

I disagree with the separate code path for each vendor, I believe in the standards.

Rocksteady wrote the game without AA support, but do they have to? Nothing like that was printed on the box. Can't Nvidia pick up a game and enhance its quality for their own customer only? Since when giving things to people I like for free unethical? ATI can pick up a game that is written in Dx9 and port it to Dx11 and free it to all ATI user and prevents Nvidia card to benefit from it.

The parties have taken their sides, and this topic in my opinion has turned into something that should be moved into P&N as basically it has turned into a miniature democrat vs republican debate: both sides make excellent points, but in the long run it doesn't really matter as everyone has already taken a side.

The facts have been laid out, and unless we actually hear from Edios/Rocksteady/ATI/Nvidia to reveal more information I doubt anyone's opinion will change soon.

I will say though that I appreciate everything that has been said in this thread, it did change my opinion on the matter, but now you guys are just running in circles . I think its time to agree to disagree.

Although I think we can all agree that Rocksteady Studios sucks wiener since they couldn't even code-in MSAA by themselves

 

[Ben90]

Look at that, my post got its own page... Its a sign its time to turn a new page and forget the issue lol

 

[lopri]

There is some truth to what you said, Ben90, but I'm afraid it's a bit more complicated than that in Video. It'd be easier to agree to disagree, or to find a common ground if a discussion centers around logic and principles. But as you may have observed, what we have here isn't just about P&N stuff but also folks who favors company X over company Y for whatever reasons. And some of them will change their stances, move the goal posts, use down-right double standards, simply spread FUD, or resort to personal attacks (explicit or implied) in order to achieve their 'perceived' wins.

I do agree that this thread has run its course, and unless there is a further factual development, the arguments will likely run circles.

 

[Keysplayr]

Fruitlessly?

I'm a cantankerous old man who plans to to retire on the residuals earned in this thread.

and

It's raining so I can't rake my leaves.

Hehe. Nice.

Yes, fruitlessly. You cannot convince Seero on your points (which are good) and Seero cannot convince you on his points (which are good). So, it's an endless argument and Lopri deftly described what is happening here. And it could go on for a long, long time and very likely without resolution either way.

If it's raining, and you're a cantankerous old man, I'm sure you could find something better to do other than just raking wet leaves. . As well as Seero.

/peace guys.

 

[jvroig]

I appreciate all the technical stuff discussed here. Schmide and Seero, thanks for the debate, it contributed a lot of knowledge to non-GPU-tech savvy people like me. But since you guys have been arguing in circles, I agree it's time to just end it peacefully Thanks for all the contributions.

 

[Seero]

I dont have the advanced knowledge as Schmide, Seero, and others that have contributed to this thread; but I can understand the issue now after this long debate, the two sides are as follows:

Although I think we can all agree that Rocksteady Studios sucks wiener since they couldn't even code-in MSAA by themselves

Very well said. I don't have advanced knowledge, but do want to state my opinions on the matter. I also agreed that none of this will happen if Rocksteady Studios can code-in MSAA by themselves.

Hehe. Nice.

Yes, fruitlessly. You cannot convince Seero on your points (which are good) and Seero cannot convince you on his points (which are good). So, it's an endless argument and Lopri deftly described what is happening here. And it could go on for a long, long time and very likely without resolution either way.

If it's raining, and you're a cantankerous old man, I'm sure you could find something better to do other than just raking wet leaves. . As well as Seero.

/peace guys.

Yes, I have been hard headed. Now that Ben90 quoted the main point out, the facts and stances are very clear. I was trying to state what I want others to see without knowing that it was clear from the beginning.

Thank you for both of you.

 

[Nemesis 1]

This was a good thread. But it does make me chuckle. Befor this game came out befor these cards were out. Right here at AT in this forum . I stated that 2010 was going to be crazy . I stated that differant hardware wouldn't function on someones elseshardware . What happened and what was said after word is up to you to finf ans. with forum search . But I did say it. FACT. My accuracy is uncanny . Another fact. Other than the R500 or whatever I been so close to truth its scary. The R500 was my brother inlaw giving bad info . But today that info is correct . better late than never . lol. The real question ya need to ask yourself is how I know . Than ya need to ask self is other things I say fact or fiction . Best decide real soon .

 

[lopri]

Very well said. I don't have advanced knowledge, but do want to state my opinions on the matter. I also agreed that none of this will happen if Rocksteady Studios can code-in MSAA by themselves.

Not to drag this discussion but this is an example of ambiguous stances in the forum that I mentioned a few posts above. I thought your position was that it didn't matter whether the developer sold the in-game AA to AMD or NV (or NV proposed, the end result would be the same) since we're living in a capitalist society? With that logic nobody should be at fault here. But now you're saying the developer was somehow incompetent (thus implying they're at fault). By doing so you are exposing (probably inadvertently) your desire to vindicate/give a pass to a certain other hardware company.

OK, I'm done here.

 

[Seero]

Not to drag this discussion but this is an example of ambiguous stances in the forum that I mentioned a few posts above. I thought your position was that it didn't matter whether the developer sold the in-game AA to AMD or NV (or NV proposed, the end result would be the same) since we're living in a capitalist society? With that logic nobody should be at fault here. But now you're saying the developer was somehow incompetent (thus implying they're at fault). By doing so you are exposing (probably inadvertently) your desire to vindicate/give a pass to a certain other hardware company.

OK, I'm done here.

I agree it will be unethical if Rocksteady somehow sold the right to implement AA to Nvidia, but this isn't the case as ATI is open to have their implementation of it. I didn't say Rocksteady is incompetent to implement AA, but if they have done it natively, then all vendors can have AA.

It was never my stance for someone to sell in-game AA to any video card vendors. However, if someone comes in and add new functionalities on top of a game at their expenses, then it is their decision to who, what, where, and how should it be used. Publishers decide whether or not the publish it, and consumers can decide to buy or not.

 

[jvroig]

This was a good thread. But it does make me chuckle. Befor this game came out befor these cards were out. Right here at AT in this forum . I stated that 2010 was going to be crazy . I stated that differant hardware wouldn't function on someones elseshardware . What happened and what was said after word is up to you to finf ans. with forum search . But I did say it. FACT. My accuracy is uncanny . Another fact. Other than the R500 or whatever I been so close to truth its scary. The R500 was my brother inlaw giving bad info . But today that info is correct . better late than never . lol. The real question ya need to ask yourself is how I know . Than ya need to ask self is other things I say fact or fiction . Best decide real soon .

Do you really want that to be the case? Do you want to forget open standards, with PC games ending up like the console wars where a game might not run on your card because it's for the other company's card?

(By the way, I'm glad you're back here Nemesis How come your name now has "1" after it? I don't remember your name having that before)

 

[Tempered81]

What do you guys think about this benchmark? Seems odd to me that a 5870 can be so slow, but when you slap in a 275 to calculate the 'high physx' with the patched drivers, the 5870 is again at full speed. Do they not only want physics to run only on Nvidia cards, but when attempted on ati to be severely handicapped? This is horrible in my eyes.

source:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-hd5800-crossfirex_8.html#sect1

 

[Wreckage]

What do you guys think about this benchmark? Seems odd to me that a 5870 can be so slow, but when you slap in a 275 to calculate the 'high physx' with the patched drivers, the 5870 is again at full speed. Do they not only want physics to run only on Nvidia cards, but when attempted on ati to be severely handicapped? This is horrible in my eyes.

source:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-hd5800-crossfirex_8.html#sect1

It's most likely trying to run PhysX on the CPU when a supported GPU is not present. Dragging the whole system down.