Bathroom remodeling

[SearchMaster]

I've begun a major bathroom remodeling project. Fortunately it's a relatively unused bathroom at the moment so I'm not under tremendous pressure to finish the project quickly. I'm hoping to have it done before 2008 but not tied to that. The bathroom is about 5'x8', with about 2 more feet in the closet that I'm hoping to remove, which would make it 5'x10'.

I don't have pics right now, sorry.

As I'm pulling the old tile off, which was 5 feet high on most of the walls (6 feet high in the shower enclosure), there is about a 1" mortar base under the tile instead of drywall which I will now have to replace. Question: is it better to put the green drywall or cement-based 'backerboard'? Can I use the backerboard only in the shower enclosure and green sheetrock in the rest of the room? I know I'll need a moisture barrier behind for either. I used backerboard when I tiled my kitchen countertop but is there anything special to know in this installation? I plan to do about 6 feet of tile all the way around.

Now to the ceiling. Currently it has a stippled ceiling. I know that style is a bit dated but it does fit the rest of the house (almost 40 years old now). If I decide to remove the stippling and go with a smooth painted ceiling, how hard is it going to be to sand down the stippling and paint over it? Am I better off removing it altogether and putting up all new drywall? I'm already going to have to patch several places (old lighting, removing closet wall, etc.) and I've never 'stippled' so I'm not sure how well I'd be able to match what's there already.

Shower enclosure - I'd like to use glass block to create one part of the shower enclosure (no bathtub). So 3 of the 4 walls of the enclosure will be tiled, then there will be a half wall 6 feet high of block (2-2.5 feet wide), with a pivot shower door. I've never worked with glass block before - any tips on working with glass block? Will I be able to attach the shower door directly to the block, or should I install it on the tile/wall side? I'm tempted to attach it to the block if possible and avoid the 'rounded edge' - those tiles are ridiculously priced compared to regular glass block but overall cost isn't a huge issue in this project.

Removing the closet - there is currently a closet (again, 2'x5') that is pretty useless because of its location and door location. I'd like to remove it altogether. The rest of the room will already be mostly down to the studs - is this a difficult operation assuming it's not a LB wall?

Door and toilet - currently the toilet is located between the shower and vanity. Assuming I can remove the closet, I'd like to move the toilet where the closet is now, and expand the shower stall and turn the vanity into a double vanity. The entire room will be gutted already, and I have access to the floor from underneath - how difficult would it be to move the toilet approximately 5 feet?

If I move the toilet, the existing door will open right into the toilet. My wife has been itching to put a pocket door there, and I'm warming to the idea. Have any of you ever installed a pocket door, and if so, how difficult is it? The portion where the door would slide into will already be exposed to the studs - I assume I will have to remove the drywall on the other side of the wall (in the kids' bedroom) and completely reframe it all? I'd also need to move the lightswitch to the other side of the door frame but that shouldn't be a problem.

Thanks for any insight anyone can provide.

Update 1 - 12/6/07 - well, phase I is complete - the demolition. It went very well all things considered. My goal was to get the demo done this week, not cause any water leaks or electrical shorts, and not to damage any other part of the room. Mission accomplished! Everything looks pretty good, there are a couple of studs near the toilet that have some slight water damage but the subfloor is in very good shape.

I looked under the room and I think moving the toilet won't be that bad if we go through with it. It's PVC and not iron, which is good.

I have not removed the closet wall yet. My wife is out of town and I'm waiting to show her things before making a permanent decision on that. We'll need to do exact measuring and planning before we proceed on that. But if it works out, it sure will make things nice in there.

 

[edro]

Question: is it better to put the green drywall or cement-based 'backerboard'?
Yes, use backerboard behind the shower and green drywall everywhere else.

How difficult would it be to move the toilet approximately 5 feet?
Easy, as long as there is good room underneath.

 

[iamwiz82]

is it better to put the green drywall or cement-based 'backerboard'?

greenboard everywhere except around the tub is fine. Note that backerboard will still let moisture through, it just won't fall apart.

how hard is it going to be to sand down the stippling and paint over it?

Save yourself a LOT of dust and just cut it all out and put new drywall up.

is this a difficult operation assuming it's not a LB wall?

No, especially if you are ripping out everything to the studs.

how difficult would it be to move the toilet approximately 5 feet?

Depends. A lot of hidden nightmares could be discovered. You will have to tear everything back before you will really know for sure. Generally it shouldn't be a big deal, though you may discover some weird plumbing oddities.

 

[SearchMaster]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

is it better to put the green drywall or cement-based 'backerboard'?

greenboard everywhere except around the tub is fine. Note that backerboard will still let moisture through, it just won't fall apart.

how hard is it going to be to sand down the stippling and paint over it?

Save yourself a LOT of dust and just cut it all out and put new drywall up.

is this a difficult operation assuming it's not a LB wall?

No, especially if you are ripping out everything to the studs.

how difficult would it be to move the toilet approximately 5 feet?

Depends. A lot of hidden nightmares could be discovered. You will have to tear everything back before you will really know for sure. Generally it shouldn't be a big deal, though you may discover some weird plumbing oddities.

I was hoping you'd answer - you're always so helpful . Thanks to edro for his response as well.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: SearchMaster

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

is it better to put the green drywall or cement-based 'backerboard'?

greenboard everywhere except around the tub is fine. Note that backerboard will still let moisture through, it just won't fall apart.

how hard is it going to be to sand down the stippling and paint over it?

Save yourself a LOT of dust and just cut it all out and put new drywall up.

is this a difficult operation assuming it's not a LB wall?

No, especially if you are ripping out everything to the studs.

how difficult would it be to move the toilet approximately 5 feet?

Depends. A lot of hidden nightmares could be discovered. You will have to tear everything back before you will really know for sure. Generally it shouldn't be a big deal, though you may discover some weird plumbing oddities.

I was hoping you'd answer - you're always so helpful . Thanks to edro for his response as well.

Hold on, I need to send Lola a link to this post!

BTW, make sure you wear a mask when cutting the backerboard, and do it outside. The dust is bad news.

 

[SearchMaster]

The dust already has been a nightmare, and I'm only about halfway through the initial teardown. I do remember cutting the backerboard outdoors the last time I used it, thanks for the reminder. I am NOT looking forward to the cleanup of my initial mess (right now I have an ankle deep pile of tile on the floor ). There are two things I dread the most - (1) the cleanup, and (2) my wife liking the end result so much that she will want me to remodel our master bathroom next.

 

[amdskip]

What do you guys use for cutting cement backerboard? I did a rather primitive method last time, screwdriver + hammer. I scored and crumbled, the joints all get taped and mudded anyways. I'm waiting for the spring to continue laying tile, too cold to be cutting it outside for me, and well too dark out when I get home at night.

What's below this bathroom?

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: amdskip
What do you guys use for cutting cement backerboard? I did a rather primitive method last time, screwdriver + hammer. I scored and crumbled, the joints all get taped and mudded anyways. I'm waiting for the spring to continue laying tile, too cold to be cutting it outside for me, and well too dark out when I get home at night.

Box cutters to score it and then fold it by hand.

 

[PlatinumGold]

if you don't mind me asking,

how much do you estimate all this will cost you in materials?

i have to redo my kids bathroom and probably our master bathroom within the next year or so.

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

actually you want to use a paperless or purple drywall, not greenboard. Greenboard allows mold growth so it's bad for areas exposed to moisture and humidity. Durock would be best under the tile, but is a MUST under the tile in the shower.

texture ceiling shouldn't be sanded. instead, take warm water an mist the ceiling with a sprayer. Let it sit for a few minutes, then scrape off the texture with a 4" putty knife. the surface underneath may vary, so it might be able to be taped as is, skim coated, or may require replacement or lamination with 1/4" rock

glass block can be tricky, and I've not done any. you won't be able to swing the door off it though.

the closet removal should be easy. and the walls most likely aren't load bearing.

moving the toilet will require re-routing the waste, vent and supply plumbing. This can be difficult or easy, depending on your skill. Remember some places require a licensed plumber to do this work.

pocket doors are a bitch, especially in an existing wall. without a floor plan, I'm a bit confused, but if the door is that close to the toilet, you need to rethink your floor plan.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
if you don't mind me asking,

how much do you estimate all this will cost you in materials?

i have to redo my kids bathroom and probably our master bathroom within the next year or so.

There's a huge range of prices for remodeling a bathroom. Depending on the size of the room, and the materials, it can vary from a few hundred (gut the room to the studs, new wallboard, shower enclosure, wall paper, new sink base and sink) to quite a few thousand. Just the showerhead and faucets can vary from $25 to several hundred, depending on the quality, type of metal, and style you decide to go with.

Are you planning to simply do a face-lift? Or a complete remodeling job?

Oh, and OP, since the rest of the room is gutted, I wouldn't screw around trying to remove the stippling on the ceiling, unless you're really trying to save money. But greenboard is pretty darn cheap, compared to the value of most people's time. The only thing that would make me hesitate would be the discovery of blown in cellulose insulation sitting right on top of the ceiling. I hate that stuff with a passion.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats
actually you want to use a paperless or purple drywall, not greenboard.

I have a hard time finding it in my area. In fact, none of the Lowes nor HDs carry it at all here. Special Order, apparently.

National Gypsum says that their XP wallboard is mold-resistant, not mold-proof, though. Lawyerese, I guess.

 

[amdskip]

I'm in the process of doing semi major bathroom remodels. I replaced the sink bases (250+), sink tops(50+), durock ($9/sheet), tile ($.80/sq foot), mortar (10), grout (10), mirror (40), faucet (100), and all new towel bars (60). It adds up but looks so much better than what was there.

 

[Greenman]

is it better to put the green drywall or cement-based 'backerboard'? Green board is the cheap method, I never use it behind tile anywhere. Use Hardibacker, easy to work with and not much more money than greenboard. You can also use it in the shower.
how hard is it going to be to sand down the stippling and paint over it? Almost imposable, and if the house is old it may have lead based paint on it. Drop the ceiling and replace it.
any tips on working with glass block? Only one, don't try to put your shower head on it.
Removing the closet - there is currently a closet (again, 2'x5') that is pretty useless because of its location and door location. I'd like to remove it altogether. The rest of the room will already be mostly down to the studs - is this a difficult operation assuming it's not a LB wall? It's very easy to remove, but don't assume it's not a bearing wall.
The entire room will be gutted already, and I have access to the floor from underneath - how difficult would it be to move the toilet approximately 5 feet? Depends on whats above and below it. You will have to move the waste and the vent, so you need access to the plumbing from the top and the bottom. If the old plumbing is iron with lead and oakum joints, it can be a real pain to deal with.
Have any of you ever installed a pocket door, and if so, how difficult is it? Done hundreds of them, very easy. Frame in the opening with a new header, install the new pocket and rock it.

 

[SearchMaster]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
if you don't mind me asking,

how much do you estimate all this will cost you in materials?

i have to redo my kids bathroom and probably our master bathroom within the next year or so.

I don't have a formal budget right now (recipe for disaster I suppose). I don't want to spend over $1500, but really plan to come in well under that. The important thing to me is to have no regrets. I've always gone the cheapest route in remodeling efforts before, this time I want to get "the best deal for the money". For example, I've already bought the tile. Home Depot had it on clearance (a special order had been returned) for $0.24/sf. They had some tile I liked *slightly* better but it was 4x as expensive. Of course I liked the travertine better but it is 10x as expensive. All in all, the tile I picked out was my 4th or 5th favorite but for the money I had to buy it. I think I spent <$70 for it (no grout or mortar yet). If I decide to bullnose it or put an accent strip, I'll spend another $70-150 for that.

I expect the vanity will be in the $300-$500 range, depending on what my wife likes best . I'll keep the same toilet, assuming I don't accidentally destroy it. I figure ~$100 for the new plumbing materials but that's a complete guess, and doesn't include the shower and vanity fixtures. The shower fixture will be $100-$300, again depending on the wife's tastes. The drywall/backerboard is just under $10 per 3'x5' sheet, I haven't even calculated that cost but certainly under $200.

I'll have some goofy Paint floor plans soon .

 

[dartworth]

Good stuff...


AT should start an home improvement/remodel forum. I'm sure it generate some good traffic.

 

[amdskip]

Tip: find the faucet/shower controls that you like and search for them on ebay, I saved some buying them online and they are new just like you would buy retail

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: Greenman
If the old plumbing is iron with lead and oakum joints, it can be a real pain to deal with.

Been there. When remodeling a bathroom, I ran into that stuff. Spent 1/2 an hour cutting through it and was a long long way from finished. Made a couple phone calls and discovered that there's a special tool for it. It's about a 3 foot bar with a chain on the end (almost similar in design to some of the oil filter wrenches, except huge.) As you torque on the wrench, it ratchets down the chain. It cuts/snaps the pipe. I made a new cut with that tool; took all of 30 seconds. Rental place even refunded most of my money, since I only had the tool for 10 minutes before I was back with it.

 

[SearchMaster]

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats
without a floor plan, I'm a bit confused, but if the door is that close to the toilet, you need to rethink your floor plan.

Here ya go - my crappy Paint drawings as promised.

Old layout
New layout

In the old layout, the closet door is directly behind the entry door, so you have to close the entry door to get into the closet. I want to remove the closet and put the toilet in that area, but there's not a ton of room along the existing closet wall (the short side). So I thought if I'm going to have to reframe for a pocket door anyway, I could move the door frame over a foot or so and put the toilet there. I'm not married to the idea, it would just give me more flexibility as far as expanding the shower a foot or so, and moving the vanity toward the shower more and give us a bit of furniture-based storage in the closet next to the vanity facing the toilet. Otherwise I can keep the shower the same size, keep the toilet where it is, and move the larger vanity over toward the existing closet and put storage facing it, where the closet currently is.

[edit]fix link[/edit]

 

[SearchMaster]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: Greenman
If the old plumbing is iron with lead and oakum joints, it can be a real pain to deal with.

Been there. When remodeling a bathroom, I ran into that stuff. Spent 1/2 an hour cutting through it and was a long long way from finished. Made a couple phone calls and discovered that there's a special tool for it. It's about a 3 foot bar with a chain on the end (almost similar in design to some of the oil filter wrenches, except huge.) As you torque on the wrench, it ratchets down the chain. It cuts/snaps the pipe. I made a new cut with that tool; took all of 30 seconds. Rental place even refunded most of my money, since I only had the tool for 10 minutes before I was back with it.

Great advice. Like I said, I'm not married to the idea of moving the toilet, so if it looks like a PITA overall I'll probably skip it. I'll look at the current plumbing layout tonight from under the floor (there's a nice sized crawlspace, I can actually stand under that part) and see what I'm dealing with.

 

[amdskip]

new bath corrected link

Well it looks like the far wall with all the plumbing fixtures next to it is probably the "wet wall". Depending on how things are setup (what's above this bathroom?), it may be a huge project to move the toilet.

 

[SearchMaster]

Originally posted by: amdskip
new bath corrected link

Well it looks like the far wall with all the plumbing fixtures next to it is probably the "wet wall". Depending on how things are setup (what's above this bathroom?), it may be a huge project to move the toilet.

What does "wet wall" imply? The inlet valve come from below, up into the room through the wall, but I'm thinking that capping the existing line and rerouting it is no big deal. It seems like the bigger task would be the waste line.

Above the room is a moderately accessible attic. I know the gas exhaust line actually runs along the shower enclosure wall, I found it last night.

 

[amdskip]

A wet wall is usually a 2x6 wall instead of 2x4 so there is physically more room for a vent stack to run up through the roof. Usually the water supply lines are in the wall too but those are pretty easy to move around. The waste line is your biggest challenge.

Will you have to move the gas line?

 

[iamwiz82]

OP, have you had experience with plumbing before? It's all pretty easy to work with, but it takes patience, measure-twice-cut-once mentality.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Yeah man, go ahead and do most of the work, but hiring a freaking plumber for a half hour or labor to move the pipe. It will get done right and get done faster and may cost less than your fixtures.