Basic OC questions?

[RedKnight7]

Hi,

I and my 15 y.o. son (a 3D gamer) will be putting together an OC system. I don't want to OC it hard since I can't sink much time into the PCs here, including messing with timings and the hassle of burnouts. I have several questions; if anybody can help with one or more of them, I'd appreciate it!

Our proposed system atm is a P4 2.8C Northwood, ASUS P4S800D-E Deluxe, and Mushkin LevelOne DDR433 2x512 Dual Channel RAM. We're aiming for a good 3D gaming system.

1) If we don't push it too much -- say to 3.0 or 3.2 Ghz -- will I need a better fan for the CPU than the Retail CPU fan? (What's the max where it'd be risky with just a retail fan? Should I just watch the temperature; what's the limit there?)

2) Despite the recent article with an Athlon XP as the best for OC'ing, like I say, I don't want to push it hard, and I also want the basic platform (i.e. motherboard and memory) to last for at least a couple years. I figure the XP is probly reaching the end of its design cycle, so we're going with an Intel board that will accept Prescotts if/when they come to be worth it. I was surprised that Anand's "best" OC'ing system didn't even mention the P4S800D-E (for the Intel runnerup), since a recent Anand motherboard review praised it highly and said it was much better for oc'ing than the Gigabyte Intel board they faced off against. If we don't want to push the board hard (we're NOT hardcore oc'ers), what do you think about choosing the P4S800D-E?

3) Any comments on going with the Mushkin DDR433 as per Anand's recent recommended OC system? Will it need any sort of fan or whatever, if it isn't OC'd hard?

TIA if you can help us noobs!

Mike, Atlanta

 

[Corporate Thug]

1. its not so much a matter of how fast you are OCing but rather if you are chaning the vcore. the stock fan is fine for any OC of you are not changing the vcore, esp a conservative OC like 200-400mhz on a 2.8C

2. i like the IS7/IC7 P4P800/P4C800 better

3. a fan for the ram? no

 

[RedKnight7]

Thanks, Shady.

I wish the Anand articles had said something comparing the P4S800D-E to the other boards you mention. Since it wasn't mentioned at all in the recommended OC systems, but otherwise got a real good recommend as a motherboard, I wonder if that means it's a fine motherboard in general, but not the best for OC'ing? I'd be more interested in the best motherboard in general as opposed to the best OC'ing motherboard, assuming I could overclock it a moderate amount. I want one that'll be stable and last a long time.

Whew, there's a lot of motherboards out there!

All comments welcome! Thanks folks.

 

[smahoney]

You can look at my rig for what you can do with an M0 stepping 2.8C without a lot of effort - you can go with a good quality heatsink instead of the water cooling and do just as well - at stock voltage and without stressing your components. There are a lot of choices in motherboards just from Abit and Asus without throwing anyone else into the mix. The IC7-G is a great board but you can go with an 865 based board for less and still get all of the features.

Temps and airflow will tell you wether you need a better heatsink - The stock unit isn't bad for a moderate OC.

There are no motherboards available that are actually designed with the 'present' prescott power requirements in mind - especially for overclocking. If you are building a machine now, don't expect to be able to upgrade easily if you don't want to upgrade for another year at least.

The P4S800D-E board has had better success in reviews lately since Asus came out with an updated BIOS.

A few options:
2.8 at 250MHz FSB (3.5GHz) with 1:1 Mem Divider with PC4000 Memory
2.8 at 233MHz FSB (3.25GHz) with 1:1 Mem Divider with PC3700 Memory
2.8 at 250MHz FSB (3.5GHz) with 5:4 Mem Divider with PC3200 Memory

 

[Mullzy]

I did a little research into the ASUS P4S800D-E Deluxe as an overclocking board and found some interesting comments. One site said they weren't able to get over 220 FSB without putting active cooling on the Northbridge. Some people here suggested that passive cooling on all the ASUS boards can be a problem and many replace the passive heatsink with heatsink/fan combo.

The ABIT IC7 comes high recommended by many people here... and it has an active NB cooler. It's only $30-40 more Canadian than the ASUS P4S800D-E (might only be $15-20 more US).

 

[RedKnight7]

Thanks much, Smahoney and Mullzy.

I don't know what I was thinking -- actually the P4S800D-E Deluxe IS the alternate mb recommended in Anand's March OC Guide. (Either I've been reading too much and got confused, or they just updated it.)

Well, NewEgg has already packed the order for the system spex I listed, as of this morning. So I guess there's not much going back. However, if my son really gets into OC'ing, we can buy fans for the NB or whatever, as needed. (This is a fan that sits on top of the NB chip or something?) I got into OC'ing 4 or 5 years ago, but just don't have the time for a thousand reboots these days. But I'm showing my son the ropes by letting him do most of the work, and he's the guy that wants all the speed he can get for his gaming, so maybe he'll take the chance to play around and learn a lot.

Anyway, I figure the board can't be all that bad... and any way you slice it, a person's locking into something with plusses and minusses, whatever you finally get.

I seem to recall that the CPU shouldn't go over 50 C (or was it 60?) before it's in danger of frying and/or wearing out early. Can anybody confirm the temp for me?

Smahoney, you didn't list PC3500 (DDR433), which is what I got. Any recommends for that? I got the Mushkin LevelOne DDR433 2x512 Dual Channel RAM... no article clearly told me what's the use of Dual Channel, but I figure it can't hurt

Thanks for all your comments folks! We're just trying to learn. My son may start jumping in, when we get the stuff.

P.S. Smahoney -- thanks for the link to your rig. I bet it looks very cool

 

[myocardia]

DC ram is pretty much just two sticks from the same batch, so you're almost assured that they will run well in dual-channel, plus they should run almost identical speeds, even if you used them separately. As far as the temps, the lower the better, always. I don't let my cpu's get up to even 50°C, but there are many people who run theirs quite a bit higher. For the P4C's, under 60°C is considered safe.

 

[Navig8erz]

Originally posted by: myocardia
DC ram is pretty much just two sticks from the same batch, so you're almost assured that they will run well in dual-channel, plus they should run almost identical speeds, even if you used them separately. As far as the temps, the lower the better, always. I don't let my cpu's get up to even 50°C, but there are many people who run theirs quite a bit higher. For the P4C's, under 60°C is considered safe.

I'm not too concerned about the memory.. it's running fine.

The Prescott chips are totally different than normal P4s and have different stock heat specs.

 

[smahoney]

Well the stock MHz for 433 memory would be about 217MHz with a 1:1 which would give you a 3.03GHz 2.8C CPU speed. You might be better off seeing if you can run the CPU at 250MHz for a 3.5GHz CPU speed with the 5:4 divider and run in PC3200 mode. I am not sure how high the Muskin can go - with relaxed timings it might go up to the 233MHz range so you could go 1:1 with a 3.25GHz chip but you might have to go with 3-4-4-7 timings to get it and run the memory at 2.8v or more to do so. Check the timings and specs on your memory and compare to some of the memory reviews that are on the site. Check to see which stepping of your CPU you get. Make sure you get the latest BIOS which seems to have fixed a lot of overclocking issues with that motherboard.

 

[RedKnight7]

Thanks for the info about dual channel and temperature, myocardia. And thanks for those specifics on memory speed and timings, smahoney ... I've been reading and have a handle on some of that, but it's good to see it directly in print to know I'm on the right track, know what I mean? Esp. the memory timings.

Can someone confirm for me -- The RAM temperature will be reflected in the motherboard temperature, right? And it shouldn't go over about 40 C?

Thanks folks! It looks like there's a real good crew here. And, just for the record, I'm blown away by all the stuff on the Anand site; both the number and the depth of the articles.

Have a good one -- Mike

 

[Shimmishim]

Originally posted by: RedKnight7
Thanks for the info about dual channel and temperature, myocardia. And thanks for those specifics on memory speed and timings, smahoney ... I've been reading and have a handle on some of that, but it's good to see it directly in print to know I'm on the right track, know what I mean? Esp. the memory timings.

Can someone confirm for me -- The RAM temperature will be reflected in the motherboard temperature, right? And it shouldn't go over about 40 C?

Thanks folks! It looks like there's a real good crew here. And, just for the record, I'm blown away by all the stuff on the Anand site; both the number and the depth of the articles.

Have a good one -- Mike

The memory temperature will not be reflected in the mobo temperature. Ram memory chips can get just as hot as .... whatever in your system. that's why they come with heatspreaders. if you're concerned about it, which i don't think you should be at all, you can put a fan to blow on top of the memory to dissipate the heat better.

and also about not increasing voltage but using the stock hsf... as you get to higher speeds, even w/o an increase in voltage, your temps will start go up either way. but at a modest overclock, your chip should be fine.

be aware also that asus motherboards are known to read temperatures lower than the actual temperature. so if you see 32C in the bios, just be aware that it's more likely than not hotter than that.

btw, the XP is not reaching the end of its life cycle. They plan on continuing the XP line on the socket 754 motherboards.

also, don't be too concerned about temps considering that you're only doing a very mild overclock. if you were shootin' for 3.6 or higher, then i'd tell you to be concerned but i think you should be fine...

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: Navig8erz

Originally posted by: myocardia
DC ram is pretty much just two sticks from the same batch, so you're almost assured that they will run well in dual-channel, plus they should run almost identical speeds, even if you used them separately. As far as the temps, the lower the better, always. I don't let my cpu's get up to even 50°C, but there are many people who run theirs quite a bit higher. For the P4C's, under 60°C is considered safe.

I'm not too concerned about the memory.. it's running fine.

The Prescott chips are totally different than normal P4s and have different stock heat specs.

Why did you think I specified P4C's? Does this mean that you are Mike's son? If so, welcome to the anandtech forums.