Bashing the Boy Scouts

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
0
0
Bashing the Boy Scouts
One group whose First Amendment rights the ACLU opposes.

Friday, November 26, 2004 12:01 a.m. EST

Legal historians may someday explain how the once-great American Civil Liberties Union came to see the Boy Scouts as public enemy number one. In the meantime, the ACLU keeps on bringing its absurd First Amendment challenges against the Scouts. The Defense Department is the latest defendant to throw in the towel.

The issue this time is the status of Scout troops on military bases. Most troops have institutional sponsors, and the military has traditionally performed this function for troops on bases, especially overseas where other options aren't readily available. The ACLU claims this is religious discrimination because the Boy Scouts require members to believe in God.

That argument received a boost last week when the Defense Department agreed to issue an all-points reminder that official sponsorship of Boy Scout troops is against departmental rules. The edict is unlikely to have much practical effect, since most troops can continue under private sponsorship. But the PR effect is immense. Defense admitted no guilt--a subtlety that went mostly unnoticed in the media rush to report the ACLU's "victory."

If all this weren't silly enough, another part of the ACLU lawsuit uses the same church-state argument to object to the famous Boy Scout Jamboree, held since 1981 at Fort A.P. Hill in Virginia. This time the military is willing to fight the charges, which eventually will be decided by a federal court in Illinois. The Scouts receive no direct financial support from the Army for the Jamboree--though the ACLU contends there are indirect costs involved.

But so what? The military earns a lot of public goodwill and A.P. Hill's soldiers learn a thing or two in helping to put up a temporary city and police 35,000 energetic teenage males. The Army even comes out ahead financially. The Scouts expect to spend $29 million on next year's Jamboree--and that's on top of the $12 million or more that they've already put into the base's permanent infrastructure. The military and other civilian groups make use of those facilities when the Scouts aren't there, which is all but nine days every four years.

Ever since the Supreme Court upheld the Scouts' First Amendment right to bar Scoutmasters who are openly gay, the ACLU has looked for softer targets. The suit against the military is one of a series aimed at getting communities to deny access to public facilities. The original lawsuit also challenged the city of Chicago's sponsorship of troops in public schools, another venue where sponsors aren't always easy to find. The city settled.
In Connecticut the ACLU has succeeded in getting the state to remove the Scouts from the list of charitable institutions to which public employees may make voluntary contributions. And earlier this year it settled a suit against the city of San Diego, which agreed to evict the Scouts from a public park they have been using since 1918. The Scouts countersued, lost, and the case is now on appeal before the Ninth Circuit.

The question no one seems to be asking is, who's better off as a result of these lawsuits? Surely not the 3.2 million Boy Scouts, whose venerable organization is part of the web of voluntary associations once considered the bedrock of American life. If anything, the purpose of the ACLU attacks is to paint Scouts as religious bigots. Other losers are communities themselves, which are forced to sever ties to an organization that helps to build character in young men.

It's been 20 years since the ACLU brought its first suit against the Scouts. If there's one thing we've learned by now, it's that the ACLU offensive says more about the degraded status of the civil liberties group than it does about the Boy Scouts.

Link

I'll bet you Libs will be glad to see that the ACLU is continuing it's 20 year vendetta against the Scouts. Don't we all feel better off now?
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
2
0
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Bashing the Boy Scouts
One group whose First Amendment rights the ACLU opposes.

Friday, November 26, 2004 12:01 a.m. EST

Legal historians may someday explain how the once-great American Civil Liberties Union came to see the Boy Scouts as public enemy number one. In the meantime, the ACLU keeps on bringing its absurd First Amendment challenges against the Scouts. The Defense Department is the latest defendant to throw in the towel.

The issue this time is the status of Scout troops on military bases. Most troops have institutional sponsors, and the military has traditionally performed this function for troops on bases, especially overseas where other options aren't readily available. The ACLU claims this is religious discrimination because the Boy Scouts require members to believe in God.

That argument received a boost last week when the Defense Department agreed to issue an all-points reminder that official sponsorship of Boy Scout troops is against departmental rules. The edict is unlikely to have much practical effect, since most troops can continue under private sponsorship. But the PR effect is immense. Defense admitted no guilt--a subtlety that went mostly unnoticed in the media rush to report the ACLU's "victory."

If all this weren't silly enough, another part of the ACLU lawsuit uses the same church-state argument to object to the famous Boy Scout Jamboree, held since 1981 at Fort A.P. Hill in Virginia. This time the military is willing to fight the charges, which eventually will be decided by a federal court in Illinois. The Scouts receive no direct financial support from the Army for the Jamboree--though the ACLU contends there are indirect costs involved.

But so what? The military earns a lot of public goodwill and A.P. Hill's soldiers learn a thing or two in helping to put up a temporary city and police 35,000 energetic teenage males. The Army even comes out ahead financially. The Scouts expect to spend $29 million on next year's Jamboree--and that's on top of the $12 million or more that they've already put into the base's permanent infrastructure. The military and other civilian groups make use of those facilities when the Scouts aren't there, which is all but nine days every four years.

Ever since the Supreme Court upheld the Scouts' First Amendment right to bar Scoutmasters who are openly gay, the ACLU has looked for softer targets. The suit against the military is one of a series aimed at getting communities to deny access to public facilities. The original lawsuit also challenged the city of Chicago's sponsorship of troops in public schools, another venue where sponsors aren't always easy to find. The city settled.
In Connecticut the ACLU has succeeded in getting the state to remove the Scouts from the list of charitable institutions to which public employees may make voluntary contributions. And earlier this year it settled a suit against the city of San Diego, which agreed to evict the Scouts from a public park they have been using since 1918. The Scouts countersued, lost, and the case is now on appeal before the Ninth Circuit.

The question no one seems to be asking is, who's better off as a result of these lawsuits? Surely not the 3.2 million Boy Scouts, whose venerable organization is part of the web of voluntary associations once considered the bedrock of American life. If anything, the purpose of the ACLU attacks is to paint Scouts as religious bigots. Other losers are communities themselves, which are forced to sever ties to an organization that helps to build character in young men.

It's been 20 years since the ACLU brought its first suit against the Scouts. If there's one thing we've learned by now, it's that the ACLU offensive says more about the degraded status of the civil liberties group than it does about the Boy Scouts.

Link

I'll bet you Libs will be glad to see that the ACLU is continuing it's 20 year vendetta against the Scouts. Don't we all feel better off now?

Yes we do. Thanks for asking :D
I really don't care about the boyscouts. They should not get any special treatment.
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
Originally posted by: Riprorin

I'll bet you Libs will be glad to see that the ACLU is continuing it's 20 year vendetta against the Scouts. Don't we all feel better off now?

Flamebait?

 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
fine then take away aclu and everything helpful to society we sure need to be a 3rd world country of religious zealots. That would show the french!
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
0
0
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
fine then take away aclu and everything helpful to society we sure need to be a 3rd world country of religious zealots. That would show the french!

Huh?
 

KidViciou$

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,998
0
0
i don't get why you have to believe in god to join their organization. when i have kids, i will tell them about other people's beliefs, and also my beliefs, and allow them to choose their religious beliefs
 

OFFascist

Senior member
Jun 10, 2002
985
0
0
The ACLU is screwing the military by pressing this issue.

If the military is forced to no longer associate with the boyscouts, then the military loses out.

First off they will lose out on whatever training exercises they would normally have done with the boyscouts involved.

Also its natrual that the military will eventually recruit many people who are boyscouts.
 

TheGameIs21

Golden Member
Apr 23, 2001
1,329
0
0
Originally posted by: KidViciou$
i don't get why you have to believe in god to join their organization. when i have kids, i will tell them about other people's beliefs, and also my beliefs, and allow them to choose their religious beliefs

You have to believe in God to join their organization because the original founders of The Boyscouts built it around a strong faith in God. I don't see why an Athiest doesn't start their own version of the Boy Scouts and just go with it. Why does an established private organization have to bend to the will of people that don't want to conform to its rules?

According to your complaint, there would be no difference in any group or organization.
 

ericb

Senior member
Nov 11, 1999
898
0
0
Actually you have to be religious to join the scouts...not believe only in the Christian god. You can be Muslim, Christian, even Buddhist. About the only thing you really can't be is Atheist and if you are Atheist than why are you joining a religious organization?
 
Jun 19, 2004
10,860
1
81
Originally posted by: SuperTool


Yes we do. Thanks for asking :D
I really don't care about the boyscouts. They should not get any special treatment.

Wow....you really live up to your name there. This is NOT about showing them special treatment. It's about the ACLU trying to take away from someone when it really serves no other purpose than to stroke their ego's.

Your ignorance in the matter only makes things worse when you post about a topic you obviously cannot comprehend.

Perhaps you should heat up a lava lamp on the stove in your trailer.

 

Gooberlx2

Lifer
May 4, 2001
15,381
6
91
Originally posted by: KidViciou$
i don't get why you have to believe in god to join their organization. when i have kids, i will tell them about other people's beliefs, and also my beliefs, and allow them to choose their religious beliefs

You don't really. My family isn't religious at all, but I was a scout (well, cub scout, did get my Arrow-of-Light though). The scouts certainly have functions/ceremonies/dogma that deal with religion...but you just don't participate in them if you're not religious/don't want to. I would think MOST troops and their leaders won't have a problem with this (mine certainly didn't), only the real assholes are gonna actually enforce the religious doctrine of the scouts to the point of getting demerited or kicked out.

Granted, the scouts certainly aren't perfect (there's a bit of intolerance and they're really NOT a charity) and I'm all for the ACLU and what they stand for....usually, but I have to agree that the ACLU's attacks against the scouts aren't helping anyone or anything.

I simply don't understand why they feel the military can't officially support the scouts. I would think that the military, just like any other business, could support whoever they damn well please. All well as cities and allowing use of public land. They should try to remember that alot of scout troops help to keep public lands clean, hell I think you get a merit badge for it.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
Originally posted by: dbzwukan
Shouldn't this go to P&N, we don't want this here.

STFU I want it here.

Riprorin....last line of post = discredited this from becoming a legitamate thread. Nice work!
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,389
19,707
146
My entire family was agnostic and we were all Scouts. My father was a troop leader and then council leader. Find a non-fundie troop/council and have fun.

The ACLU are being asshats in these cases. Their targeting of the Scouts really does look like some kind of political and/or religious vendetta.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
62,872
19,102
136
Originally posted by: Deeko
Originally posted by: dbzwukan
Shouldn't this go to P&N, we don't want this here.

STFU I want it here.

Riprorin....last line of post = discredited this from becoming a legitamate thread. Nice work!

You're close... I think the fact that it was posted by Riprorin discredited this from becoming a legitimate thread.
 

psiu

Golden Member
Oct 1, 2003
1,629
1
0
The ACLU needs to find something useful to do.

In Connecticut the ACLU has succeeded in getting the state to remove the Scouts from the list of charitable institutions to which public employees may make voluntary contributions.

That is dumb. They can't make their voluntary donation to an organization that they/their children were in, which also, along with their charitable efforts, also espouses their beliefs and morals?
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
The ACLU has not been a usefull orginization for the past 15 years or so.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
Just what are you trying to say Fausto? i'm not sure you are clear enough.
 

Fausto

Elite Member
Nov 29, 2000
26,521
2
0
Originally posted by: waggy
Just what are you trying to say Fausto? i'm not sure you are clear enough.
I find subtlety to be marvelously effective in cases such as this.

 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,389
19,707
146
Originally posted by: Fausto
Originally posted by: waggy
Just what are you trying to say Fausto? i'm not sure you are clear enough.
I find subtlety to be marvelously effective in cases such as this.

So do the mods, it seems...

Your post is toast. :p
 

Platypus

Lifer
Apr 26, 2001
31,046
321
136
If the mods have time to edit out two posts they could have closed this flaming piece of crap.