Barring outside commitments, at what age is it impractical to join the Armed Forces?

[sonambulo]

Assume you're single and have no kids. I'm really looking to hear from guys who have actually done this or know people who have done it. This would be for Air Force or Army.

Also, what's the minimum active duty commitment? What kind of salary are we looking at?

edit: to frame this up, I'm 24.

 

[Anubis]

i work with someone who just got back from afganastan and someone else asked him a similar question, the dude asking was ~40 and he said if he was dedicated enough and passed the requirements they would enlist him

 

[Queasy]

Yeah, there was a story in the local papers a couple of years back about a guy in his late 30s who wanted to enroll but was overweight. The Army said they would love to have him (he was in a high-demand field for the Army that I can't remember) but said he needed to lose weight first. He lost all his excess weight and came back and enrolled.

There was also a story the other day about a mom that enlisted with her son. She actually replaced him when he ended his tour.

 

[sonambulo]

Well, I know the enlistment age is technically pretty high but I'm more interested in how a decision like this effects a person's life outside of the actual job.

 

[Jugernot]

I saw a guy the other day that had to be in the late 50s and was a E2 Private. That is only one step above the absolute bottom of the barrel.

Either he had been demoted (probably) or he joined really late.

 

[brunell8]

Being that you're only 24, that is definitely not too high an age to enlist. More would be expected of you than a new enlistee that is only 18 simply because of your age, but that could also be to your advantage. If you're motivated to do well, your life experience will come in handy for you over the younger guys/girls.

P.S. I'm retired Navy.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

I joined in '92 at age 17. Minimum commitment is 2yrs + the time you spend in processing, basic training and Advanced Individual Training (AIT). Basic is 8-weeks, the shortest AIT is 4-weeks, and processing generally takes 1-3 weeks.

Basically the least you can join for is 3yrs all inclusive and that is what I did.

The military allows you to select your job prior to enlisting and they base this off of need and your GT score. GT score comes from taking the ASVAB. In the Army there are over 200 different jobs. From military police to infantry to cook to truck driver to nurse to dental assistant to chaplains assistant. A huge range.

When I joined I had a GT score which enabled me to select any job I wanted and I joined up November which usually allows you a better spot of picking your job as jobs fill up fast when the allocation is put out in October each year.

Some jobs also come with bonuses, a signing bonus, money to pay off student loans, choice of duty station, college fund money not to be confused with the GI Bill.

I asked them to run my GT score through the system for all jobs available for a 3yr enlistment and that gave me the maximum Army College Fund. At that time the College Fund was worth about $35K for a 3yr enlistment and more for a 4yr, 5yr, 6yr commitment.

Out of more than 200 jobs only 3 gave me what I wanted.

If you want to be a MP, they require a 6yr commitment as so many people want to do MP that they do not have a need for new ones. The best part is if you fail out of MP AIT you get shafted into another job and your 6yr commitment stays. Lots of technical jobs which are highly sought after have minimum commitments of 4yrs or more and you can forget about getting a bonus.

OK, so there I was pissing my pants at age 17, green as could be, while being screamed at 16hrs a day, sleep dperived, overworked, stressed the F out. Wow! Was not fun at all.

The maximum age you could join while I was in was 32, they have since increased the age much much higher. The oldest in my basic training I beleive was 28. Unemployed family guys with kids who needed a job, healthcare and food on the table for the family.

Quite a few 22-24 yr olds with mountains of student debt and no job as well. These guys were the brightest of the bunch and held rank over us as college credits can bring you in as high as E-4. That is a huge pay differential over a E-1.


Questions?

 

[nwfsnake]

Army just raised their max age to 42. Other services are 35-40 I believe.

 

[zig3695]

so theyll take 42 year olds but they still wont take a 18 year old who dropped out of high school? i would have thought the army would be a perfect place for school dropouts, and they could make then get their GED in the army too, like they used to do .

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: zig3695
so theyll take 42 year olds but they still wont take a 18 year old who dropped out of high school? i would have thought the army would be a perfect place for school dropouts, and they could make then get their GED in the army too, like they used to do .

The Army is getting too advanced technologically to take every person willing to sign up. Training is very cost-intensive so you can't waste time and money on someone that can't even make it through high school. And the last thing they need is dummies operating millions of dollars worth of equipment.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: zig3695
so theyll take 42 year olds but they still wont take a 18 year old who dropped out of high school? i would have thought the army would be a perfect place for school dropouts, and they could make then get their GED in the army too, like they used to do .

The Army is getting too advanced technologically to take every person willing to sign up. Training is very cost-intensive so you can't waste time and money on someone that can't even make it through high school. And the last thing they need is dummies operating millions of dollars worth of equipment.

just stick them on the front lines with a gun, they should be able to figure that out

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: zig3695
so theyll take 42 year olds but they still wont take a 18 year old who dropped out of high school? i would have thought the army would be a perfect place for school dropouts, and they could make then get their GED in the army too, like they used to do .

The Army is getting too advanced technologically to take every person willing to sign up. Training is very cost-intensive so you can't waste time and money on someone that can't even make it through high school. And the last thing they need is dummies operating millions of dollars worth of equipment.

just stick them on the front lines with a gun, they should be able to figure that out

Then they not only get themselves killed but their squad mates too.

 

[RagingBITCH]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: zig3695
so theyll take 42 year olds but they still wont take a 18 year old who dropped out of high school? i would have thought the army would be a perfect place for school dropouts, and they could make then get their GED in the army too, like they used to do .

The Army is getting too advanced technologically to take every person willing to sign up. Training is very cost-intensive so you can't waste time and money on someone that can't even make it through high school. And the last thing they need is dummies operating millions of dollars worth of equipment.

just stick them on the front lines with a gun, they should be able to figure that out

Then they not only get themselves killed but their squad mates too.

Not to mention how expensive it is to have wasted time, money, and training on that person.

 

[nakedfrog]

Salary?
People don't join the military for the pay

 

[sonambulo]

Originally posted by: Fmr12B
I joined in '92 at age 17. Minimum commitment is 2yrs + the time you spend in processing, basic training and Advanced Individual Training (AIT). Basic is 8-weeks, the shortest AIT is 4-weeks, and processing generally takes 1-3 weeks.

Basically the least you can join for is 3yrs all inclusive and that is what I did.

The military allows you to select your job prior to enlisting and they base this off of need and your GT score. GT score comes from taking the ASVAB. In the Army there are over 200 different jobs. From military police to infantry to cook to truck driver to nurse to dental assistant to chaplains assistant. A huge range.

When I joined I had a GT score which enabled me to select any job I wanted and I joined up November which usually allows you a better spot of picking your job as jobs fill up fast when the allocation is put out in October each year.

Some jobs also come with bonuses, a signing bonus, money to pay off student loans, choice of duty station, college fund money not to be confused with the GI Bill.

I asked them to run my GT score through the system for all jobs available for a 3yr enlistment and that gave me the maximum Army College Fund. At that time the College Fund was worth about $35K for a 3yr enlistment and more for a 4yr, 5yr, 6yr commitment.

Out of more than 200 jobs only 3 gave me what I wanted.

If you want to be a MP, they require a 6yr commitment as so many people want to do MP that they do not have a need for new ones. The best part is if you fail out of MP AIT you get shafted into another job and your 6yr commitment stays. Lots of technical jobs which are highly sought after have minimum commitments of 4yrs or more and you can forget about getting a bonus.

OK, so there I was pissing my pants at age 17, green as could be, while being screamed at 16hrs a day, sleep dperived, overworked, stressed the F out. Wow! Was not fun at all.

The maximum age you could join while I was in was 32, they have since increased the age much much higher. The oldest in my basic training I beleive was 28. Unemployed family guys with kids who needed a job, healthcare and food on the table for the family.

Quite a few 22-24 yr olds with mountains of student debt and no job as well. These guys were the brightest of the bunch and held rank over us as college credits can bring you in as high as E-4. That is a huge pay differential over a E-1.


Questions?

Now this is a post.

Some friends of mine were signing up and did terrible on the ASVAB's so I took some of their practice tests and did fine. Do I get to take the real thing before I sign on the dotted line?

Can you explain what the pay grades are? Why did you get placed into E-1 if you scored so high on the ASVAB? Just how crappy are the jobs if I sign up now? What determines the pay grade? I'm used to working shitty factory jobs so this will probably be a bump up for me.

What happens after basic? If I sign up for active duty do I get sent immediately to a base? Is there any way to have a say in which base I get sent to? If I sign up, I'd really prefer to live on a base or be deployed.

What's the transition back to civilian life like? I'm signed onto a lease right now so I'll have to be able to pay that while I'm in basic and beyond. Will I receive a salary during this period so I can continue to pay my landlord? Will I be able to get a few days off to move my shit or am I better off throwing it all in storage and breaking my lease? Is it going to be a bitch going to college when I'm 28?

Thanks in advance. I appreciate you taking the time to answer all this.

edit: I'm leaning towards the Air Force over Army. Is there any particular reason to sway towards one branch over the other? I realize Marines see the bulk of the fighting and have heard that Army kind of maintain infrastructure and secured areas but still see fighting. I also heard that Air Force is starting to see more PT and is getting trained in Convoy Duty so I'm likely going to see combat or at least a war zone no matter which branch I sign up for.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: sonambulo
Now this is a post.

Some friends of mine were signing up and did terrible on the ASVAB's so I took some of their practice tests and did fine. Do I get to take the real thing before I sign on the dotted line?

Yes.

Can you explain what the pay grades are? Why did you get placed into E-1 if you scored so high on the ASVAB? Just how crappy are the jobs if I sign up now? What determines the pay grade? I'm used to working shitty factory jobs so this will probably be a bump up for me.

Pay grade has absolutely nothing to do with the ASVAB. Unless you sign up for a certain job/term, or have some sort of degree (maybe this has changed, I don't know) you start as an E-1. I think having an associate's degree started you as E-2 or E-3 when I joined.

What happens after basic? If I sign up for active duty do I get sent immediately to a base? Is there any way to have a say in which base I get sent to? If I sign up, I'd really prefer to live on a base or be deployed.

When you sign up, you go to basic whenever they say. You can fill out a "dream sheet" of preferred bases, but there's a reason they call it a "dream sheet"

What's the transition back to civilian life like? I'm signed onto a lease right now so I'll have to be able to pay that while I'm in basic and beyond. Will I receive a salary during this period so I can continue to pay my landlord? Will I be able to get a few days off to move my shit or am I better off throwing it all in storage and breaking my lease? Is it going to be a bitch going to college when I'm 28?

You will begin drawing pay as soon as you're in basic... 1st and 15th of every month (with exceptions for holidays/weekends). You should probably break your lease (give them the reason why, and they may be more lenient) because you can't count on coming back. There may be a period between basic and technical training, but you can't know for sure.

Thanks in advance. I appreciate you taking the time to answer all this.

edit: I'm leaning towards the Air Force over Army. Is there any particular reason to sway towards one branch over the other? I realize Marines see the bulk of the fighting and have heard that Army kind of maintain infrastructure and secured areas but still see fighting. I also heard that Air Force is starting to see more PT and is getting trained in Convoy Duty so I'm likely going to see combat or at least a war zone no matter which branch I sign up for.

Air Force > *
(Guess which one I served in? )

Edit:
Pay chart

 

[sonambulo]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
When you sign up, you go to basic whenever they say. You can fill out a "dream sheet" of preferred bases, but there's a reason they call it a "dream sheet"

Sweet. I'd like to go as soon as possible but if I have to wait I'll wait.

Air Force > *
(Guess which one I served in? )

Edit:
Pay chart

No lie, I've been leaning a lot more towards Air Force. This may seal the deal.

 

[FoBoT]

the oldest guy that was with me in Navy boot camp was about 26 i think

the shortest enlistments guarantee the crappiest jobs, so if you only sign up for a 2-3 year enlistment, they won't give you much of a choice in what you'll be doing

mostly cleaning and other nasty jobs

i would recommend doing at least a 4 year enlistment and get some decent training out of the deal

 

[Pocatello]

Once you have realized that you're not invincible, you're too old.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

Dream sheets are complete BS.

If you want something and the armed services want you then you have them put it in your contract. I knew people who wanted Germany and signed up for Germany and got Germany out of AIT.

Your recuriter can tell you what pay grade you will enter basic as. All armed services branches pay exactly the same. Do your damndest to not enter basic as a E1. E1 pay under 5-months is lower. See Note 5 on the pay chart. Its $1,246.

You can make E2 by referring someone and having them join up. If you have a bachelors degree you are E4. With more than XX number of credit hours you are E3.

That is a huge pay differential for the first 2yrs you are enlisted.

Don't forget you will be paying $100/month into the GI Bill Fund, you can opt out, but you shouldn't.

Food, housing, utilites are included and free to you. They even give you about $300 once a year for new clothing.

Your ASVAB score is configured into whats called a GT score. The higher the GT the more jobs that are available to you. Make sure you have more than 100 or they will force you to retest while on active duty by going to class. You can retake the ASVAB mutliple times before enlisting.

Ensure you are in decent physical shape as well before entering, if not, they will send you to fat camp, and postpone your start in basic. Training sucks, you want to spend the least amount of time in training as you have much less freedom while in training. If you smoke or dip, quit beofre you hit basic. No tobacco products allowed.

Your recruiters will lie to you 100 ways in order for you to sign up and sign up quickly. They have quotas and they are very hard to meet. You have to decide whats best for you and take your time to decide and don;t let them bully you. They will and they are used to doing it as its the military way.

Best of luck to you!

 

[sonambulo]

Awesome. Thanks for all the help!

 

[sonambulo]

Just one last question, if I may.

After basic is over and you're living on a base do you have free time at the end of the work day or is it sun up to sun down work? Also what are the chances of getting a private room?

 

[everman]

I don't suppose anyone here is a JAG officer?

 

[0roo0roo]

get a degree first.

 

[sonambulo]

You know I really would like to, especially for the pay, but knowing myself it's not going to happen. I'm definitely going to enlist at this point but I'm trying to set myself up to use the situation to my advantage instead of getting turned to gristle.