Barrel Rolls

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Mark R

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Which planes can do barrel rolls?

I know that concorde could do a barrel roll, but the pilots didn't usually do them with passengers on board?

I also think that the test pilot for the first demo flight of the 707 did one in front of the customers. He got his ass chewed out by his bosses for that stunt, but apparently, it did sell quite a lot of planes, so he was forgiven.

Can something like an A380 or a 787 or 747 do the same sort of thing?
 
MongGrel

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
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Why would they ?

They aren't designed for that to begin with, you'd probably degrade the airframe even trying that out I'd think.
 
Last edited:
Fayd

Fayd

Diamond Member
Jun 28, 2001
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Mark R said:
Which planes can do barrel rolls?

I know that concorde could do a barrel roll, but the pilots didn't usually do them with passengers on board?

I also think that the test pilot for the first demo flight of the 707 did one in front of the customers. He got his ass chewed out by his bosses for that stunt, but apparently, it did sell quite a lot of planes, so he was forgiven.

Can something like an A380 or a 787 or 747 do the same sort of thing?
Click to expand...

any plane that flys can do a barrel roll...
 
mmntech

mmntech

Lifer
Sep 20, 2007
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Oh, a 747 will do it provided it's not too heavy and there's no passengers on board. According to Tex Johnson, the guy who barrel rolled the 707, the trick is to not stress the airframe above 1G. My biggest concern would be the fuel sloshing around. Wouldn't want that intake uncovered or the engines will dead stick. I saw a post on Airliners.net about an Airbus test pilot who said that the A310 will do a roll. Granted it's a much smaller aircraft.

I know early carbonated planes don't like to fly inverted for too long. That was one big advantage the BF109 had over the Hawker Hurricane. Messerschmitt used fuel injected Daimler Benz engines while the Merlin used a gravity fed carb.
 
_Rick_

_Rick_

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Apr 20, 2012
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With higher weight and lower thrust, the maneuver gets progressively more difficult, especially when you're at 90° and have close to zero lift (only the tiny little rudder) and start to drop. This can induce stalls if unlucky, and also makes the maneuver require a longer catch phase, to keep below 1G as you compensate for the vertical velocity gained this way.

I think, if you sit down and calculate the required inputs for the maneuver, and then execute it, you can pull it off. Fuel should stick to the usual feeds, since you're pulling around 1G vertical. You will want to do it at plenty of altitude though (not below 5000ft over ground) since bank angle beyond 30° means the plane will start to drop.
 
crab

crab

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2001
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None of the FBW Airbus aircraft would be able to. Their fly-by-wire systems allow 33 degrees of bank in either direction in normal operation. You can achieve 67 degrees by holding the stick, but no further. As soon as you release full stick deflection, the computers will roll it back to 33 degrees and hold that. You can disable specific computers and then remove those protections though.

Most Boeing and other aircraft (of course small ones like my Cherokee Six) will allow a maneuver like that if you really want to, but it's terribly easy to overstress the aircraft and say - rip the wings off - if you don't perform the maneuver absolutely perfectly. I know the 777 has similar soft limits - it will stop the aircraft at similar bank and pitch limits, but if you really want to roll it over, turn the yoke all the way and it will.

Airbus' philosophy puts hard limits on maneuvering for safety- even in an emergency. In the ridiculous situation you need more than ~2.5G to pull out of a dive, it wont allow, and you're hitting the ground. Boeing and pretty much all other manufacturers let the pilot decide what maneuvering is necessary and only applies soft limits in the 777 and I assume 787 - and no limits at all in others. They both have their pros and cons - in contrast to Airbus' protection where a barrel roll would not be allowed, if your asshole pilot wants to barrel roll the 757 your going to Vegas in and possibly kill everyone onboard or simply get himself fired - nothing is stopping him, and exactly that has happened in the past.
 
U

unokitty

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2012
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Barrel-Roll-707.jpg


Mark R said:
Which planes can do barrel rolls?
Click to expand...

Tex Johnson barrel rolls a 707. (Youtube)

My dad said that his B-17 would barrel roll nicely. Said he only did a loop in it once though... (Something about rivets in the wing popping.)

Uno
 
Phoenix86

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
81
Mark R said:
Which planes can do barrel rolls?

I know that concorde could do a barrel roll, but the pilots didn't usually do them with passengers on board?

I also think that the test pilot for the first demo flight of the 707 did one in front of the customers. He got his ass chewed out by his bosses for that stunt, but apparently, it did sell quite a lot of planes, so he was forgiven.

Can something like an A380 or a 787 or 747 do the same sort of thing?
Click to expand...
You'd have a much easier time defining planes that couldn't, like the H-4 Hercules.
 
skyking

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
22,781
5,941
146
by definition a barrel roll is a positive-G maneuver. The goal is to establish a sufficiently nose high condition on the entry that will carry through to a wings-level finish without the nose pointing straight down :)

anything with a decent roll rate can do a barrel roll. I suppose some of the really old stuff can't do it.
 
John Connor

John Connor

Lifer
Nov 30, 2012
22,757
619
121
crab said:
None of the FBW Airbus aircraft would be able to. Their fly-by-wire systems allow 33 degrees of bank in either direction in normal operation. You can achieve 67 degrees by holding the stick, but no further. As soon as you release full stick deflection, the computers will roll it back to 33 degrees and hold that. You can disable specific computers and then remove those protections though.

Most Boeing and other aircraft (of course small ones like my Cherokee Six) will allow a maneuver like that if you really want to, but it's terribly easy to overstress the aircraft and say - rip the wings off - if you don't perform the maneuver absolutely perfectly. I know the 777 has similar soft limits - it will stop the aircraft at similar bank and pitch limits, but if you really want to roll it over, turn the yoke all the way and it will.

Airbus' philosophy puts hard limits on maneuvering for safety- even in an emergency. In the ridiculous situation you need more than ~2.5G to pull out of a dive, it wont allow, and you're hitting the ground. Boeing and pretty much all other manufacturers let the pilot decide what maneuvering is necessary and only applies soft limits in the 777 and I assume 787 - and no limits at all in others. They both have their pros and cons - in contrast to Airbus' protection where a barrel roll would not be allowed, if your asshole pilot wants to barrel roll the 757 your going to Vegas in and possibly kill everyone onboard or simply get himself fired - nothing is stopping him, and exactly that has happened in the past.
Click to expand...

This is why Airbus sucks. I have read recently that they want to remove the cockpit and place it somewhere else and use monitors with cameras. What could go wrong? LMAO!
 
Red Squirrel

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
70,642
13,821
126
www.anyf.ca
Imagine all the beeps and warnings a modern jet liner would produce when you would attempt this. :biggrin:

Would be freaking fun to be in a plane that pulls this off though.
 
John Connor

John Connor

Lifer
Nov 30, 2012
22,757
619
121
Red Squirrel said:
Imagine all the beeps and warnings a modern jet liner would produce when you would attempt this. :biggrin:

Would be freaking fun to be in a plane that pulls this off though.
Click to expand...


I have a F-22 Raptor in FS2004 that I customized the cockpit with an added GPWS (Ground Proximity Warning System) and a Sandel ST-3400. TAWS (Terrain Alert Warning System). When I fly close to the ground the GPWS is constantly warning me about the elevation, but since I have terrain awareness with the ST-3400 I can see if I will actually run into a mountain or not. It's really quit cool. I even get wind shear warnings. I can fly in the blind at night or low viability and I can see if I will run into a mountain despite the GPWS bitching at me about low altitude.

Here is an old video of me flying the F-22 into my created Area-51. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SQpIEyR81I

That video was created after I was a little rusty from not flying in such a long time. You will hear two OM (Outer Marker) beacons. This is because I made the runway into two sections since the real one at KXTA, Area-51 is so long. I'm landing on the second half of the runway using the ILS (Instrument Landing System).
 
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Fayd

Fayd

Diamond Member
Jun 28, 2001
7,970
2
76
www.manwhoring.com
mmntech said:
Oh, a 747 will do it provided it's not too heavy and there's no passengers on board. According to Tex Johnson, the guy who barrel rolled the 707, the trick is to not stress the airframe above 1G. My biggest concern would be the fuel sloshing around. Wouldn't want that intake uncovered or the engines will dead stick. I saw a post on Airliners.net about an Airbus test pilot who said that the A310 will do a roll. Granted it's a much smaller aircraft.

I know early carbonated planes don't like to fly inverted for too long. That was one big advantage the BF109 had over the Hawker Hurricane. Messerschmitt used fuel injected Daimler Benz engines while the Merlin used a gravity fed carb.
Click to expand...

yeah, when you roll em over the fizz is terrible.
 
The Boston Dangler

The Boston Dangler

Lifer
Mar 10, 2005
14,647
2
0
i bet a b-52 would not be able to complete a roll, either from structural failure or unrecoverable stall, but a b-1b almost certainly could. b-2...i guess the airframe is up to it, but no way would the computers be cool with that
 
MongGrel

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,466
3,067
121
Last edited:
_Rick_

_Rick_

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2012
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MongGrel said:
B-52 probably could, but I wouldn't want to be in it at the time.
Click to expand...

If she's light enough and has enough altitude/ speed it might be possible.
But the margins are probably quite thin, the asymmetric wing load and base weight as well as inertia make it a tricky maneuver, I wouldn't want to pull off without running it through a CFD simulator first.
The risk of a stall at high bank angle is quite high, and I don't think stall recovery is easy when you have that much inertia.
 
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