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Barcelona, late and slow.

Phynaz

Phynaz

Lifer
Hector Ruiz interview on Bloomberg. Pretty much validates the rumors that the original K9 and K10 chips were cancelled because they were too complex.

"Advanced Micro, the No. 2 maker of personal-computer processors, fell behind on a chip called Barcelona when it tried to design too many new features at one time, Ruiz said. He had once expected the chip to be done ``early'' this year. Instead, it goes on sale this month and will be slower than intended"

Also, possibly selling a stake in all their fabs:

"``If we're going to implement an asset light strategy, I don't know if we can have sole ownership of anything,'' he said when asked if Advanced Micro will continue to be the only owner of its chip plants. "

Interview

 
Yes, slow now at 2GHz, but seeing as 3GHz has reasonable yields now (AMD said the parts were not abundant, but they didn't have to test very many) it should be OK by the end of Q1 2008. I believe that Barcelona will show a 1.2x clock-for-clock over Penryn (albeit based on simulated benchmarks and misleading graphs), which would put 2GHz at 2.4GHz Penryn and 3GHz at 3.6GHz Penryn.
 
I think its best everyone just believes what they want to in regards to this issue that's been discussed over and over.

AMD has never really been good at designing or delivering on time, hell they even bought designs back in old good old days and then reverse engineered the Intel chips to make their own. Even the K7 was never a AMD design

The K7/K8 architecture has served a good few years for AMD but now, with Intel's fierce acceleration in performance has come the time when AMD needs a new architecture to compete. Quite frankly it's the first time they need to do it on their own in a major way, no more NextGen or the like to buyout anymore, oh no.

It makes me angry at how AMD felt confident in bashing the Pentium D and asking for a duel making silly jokes back in late 2005 and now can't come out from hiding behind the bush and just show the world the CPU in the flesh with benchmark numbers given they think it's so darn good. If they're man enough to do A then they should be man enough to do B because the world wants it and anyhow, it would help there financial situation if it really is as good as they make believe.

AMD is just a child out in the wood not knowing which way to turn. They should have never thought of themselves as world class leaders back in the Netburst <> K7/K8 days and instead went back to school to start design on K10 much earlier. But no they thought Intel will be stubborn until the 22st century and continue their Netburst until China reigns as the new world empire. Any analyst knows that Intel changes its architecture every 4-5 years. Intel new darn well that their Netburst didn't plan out as planned by 2003 but they couldn't just jump ship. When you're a stock exchange company you can't go spending billions purely because oh no, we made a mistake so we'll double are R&D just to correct it, who cares our earnings per share will be negative for the next 4 quarters. Intel had to wait 5 years to make this shift feasible and reengineer the P6/Klamath/Deschutes/Katmai/Coppermine/Tualatin/Banias/Dothan/Yonah architecture into a new king of the hill.

All this AMD throwing wonderful claims is all just marketing wind to blow the dust away and make most believe how it's clean and perfect over in Sunnyville.

They are the underdog by a big margin both in terms of market share and financial prowess and so if they want to regain the markershare they just lost back to Intel then they should show the world the goods.

AMD lost a golden opportunity to stay competitive with Intel. You don't ever rest on your laurels just because you're one up on your competitor in whatever kind of event, you keep at it and make sure you have a plan B if your other develops some kind of wonderful achie vement. But no, AMD felt king of the hill haha and went off on a spending spree wanting to build a fab in NY and buy ATI, ah that's petty cash, we spend US$8 billion every Xmas. There's a simple methodology in business, if you're small take small risks, if you're big then take bigger risks, but only if you have to and it improves your company's image and bottom line.

I'm sorry guys but I'm just tired of all this AMD secrecy. They're taking you for a ride because they're in panic mode. They're paranoid how to make good with what they have and stop the money bleeding.

Such a small company in the semiconductor industry and so full of themselves I regret to say. You don't find Samsung as the #1 in various semiconductor segments claiming upmost victory do you?

This is not about being an Intel or AMD fan boy, this is about taking the center view and seeing the facts just as they appear. I would love to see AMD do well however they're hit themselves in the food and have a dead leg with which they can't run.

 
If Barcelona tanks, AMD is done. When I say "done", I mean they they will either have to sell off all of their fabs sooner than later, or be taken over by another larger company. Hindsight is 20/20 of course, and they picked the absolutely very worst time ever, to purchase ATI. They wouldn't have been much better off (I think) if they had purchased ATI when AMD was at the peak of their market share, because Intel would still have come up with C2D CPU's and taken the market share back anyway.
Once Barcelona arrives, and if it tanks, then all the AMD secrecy and all the hidden information that has been going on behind the public eye, will start to surface. Something not very good is on the way. I'm not a doom and gloom preacher either. Just that things don't seem quite right. AMD is too quiet.
Remember the day when AMD publicly challenged Intel to an outright battle? Their A64 against Intel's P4? Well, where have those "cajones" gone now? There is a reason they are soooo quiet and I fear it's not a good one. ::::hangs head low::::

EDIT: Spelling correction thanks to BenchZowner
 
It's cojones btw.

I'm too tired to comment atm, but never say that a company will be 'done' if they fail to be competitive once.
Unless...Intel is dead ( and that happened twice for a small-medium & 1 large period ).

 
Originally posted by: BenchZowner
It's cojones btw.

I'm too tired to comment atm, but never say that a company will be 'done' if they fail to be competitive once.
Unless...Intel is dead ( and that happened twice for a small-medium & 1 large period ).
Click to expand...

Thank you for the spelling correction although that annoys the hell out of me. LOL.

Actually, I didn't. You forget AMD is now in the graphics biz (R600?) . And it's not so much that a one time failure will end the company. Not what I'm saying. It's that in AMD's current condition, one failure might be too much. And what I'm also saying is, Barcelona HAS to be better than Penryn in performance AND power consumption, or else. Lets just hope AMD's "quietness" is because they want to take Intel by surprise, not because they can't.
 
It's a shame about AMD. I just bought a new Intel CPU yesterday after a few years of running AMD chips. I really feel that there is just no reason to buy their products anymore unless you're looking for a real cheap processor on an extreme budget.

It seems that after the original Athlon 64 they haven't really done much to innovate or better their products by a large margin. Instead they let Intel catch up and now it's hurting them bad. The way things are going I don't think my next CPU will be AMD either.
 
Originally posted by: LightningRider
It's a shame about AMD. I just bought a new Intel CPU yesterday after a few years of running AMD chips. I really feel that there is just no reason to buy their products anymore unless you're looking for a real cheap processor on an extreme budget.

It seems that after the original Athlon 64 they haven't really done much to innovate or better their products by a large margin. Instead they let Intel catch up and now it's hurting them bad. The way things are going I don't think my next CPU will be AMD either.
Click to expand...

I agree, while I use both brands of CPU's in my rigs, I always used AMD's in my primary setup, I have done this pretty much since I first got into computers back in 92 when my first PC that I built was an AMD am386DX-40 setup.

I still have a lot of the AMD's that I've owned over the years and it wasn't unitl earlier this year that I finally switched my Primary rig from an AMD A64 3000+@2.87ghz to an Intel E4300@3Ghz (now 3.33ghz since motherboard upgrade).

I don't have any plans of purchasing AMD CPU's in the near future....and unless the K10 can convince me otherwise my next upgrade will be an Intel Quad core.

Such a shame really after so many good years of using AMD's.
 
My c2d is the first intel cpu I've run since the early 90's because everything else I've been building has been based on an amd cpu. When they dropped the ball and let intel pass them well what choice did I have if I wanted the best bang for my buck? My c2d is much faster than the opteron 175 setup it replaced and cost less than what amd was peddling their lower performing chips for. Amd really dropped the ball this time and it's hurting them financially.
 
AMD gained 4% points in market share in the last quarter....using old X2s and old A64s. Even if Barcelona is marginally faster (5-10%) than Penryn, it's back in the game for a year. The real problem is Intel's Nehalem which will be out in 2009 and AMD will be behind once again.
 
the very BEST news is at the bottom of my quote in BOLD-
:Q

a new CEO
!

!!
Ruiz said that struggles at two of his biggest customers, Motorola Inc. and Dell Inc., hurt Advanced Micro's financial performance and forced the company to change its plans for repaying debt taken on when buying ATI Technologies Inc.

Yesterday Advanced Micro said it plans to raise $1.5 billion by selling bonds to help pay a loan that financed the buyout of graphics-chip maker ATI.

The proceeds and cash will be used to repay Morgan Stanley, whose loan funded last year's $5.4 billion purchase. In April, Advanced Micro announced a $1.8 billion bond sale to reduce the loan liability.

``That's a step in our restructuring of our debt,'' said Ruiz. ``It will take away the concern that people have.''

Ruiz also said his company may seek an outsider to own part of some assets. Advanced Micro is working on a strategy he has dubbed ``asset light'' to achieve a better return on its investments.

``If we're going to implement an asset light strategy, I don't know if we can have sole ownership of anything,'' he said when asked if Advanced Micro will continue to be the only owner of its chip plants.

He declined to give further details because Santa Clara, California-based Intel might use the information to ``screw me up,'' he said.

Ruiz, 61, said Dirk Meyer, the company's chief operating officer, is being groomed to succeed him.
Click to expand...

i am SO glad to see this discussion here - instead of Video
 
This will be my 1st Intel CPU as well, after starting with an AMD 386DX-33 (or maybe it was 25MHz, I can't remember exactly) in 1991 (Commodore/Amiga before that).

I bought every game made by Origin, Looking Glass, and Ion Storm, and look where they ended up.


 
thats some good news right there. its always good to have new and fresh ideas in a business. I personally have only owned one Pentium chip in my whole life. that would be a P4 northwood 2.4ghz S478. My very first computer had a AMD 'T-Bird 1000mhz. and after i got rid of Intel i went back to AMD. Personally i think AMD has the most bang for your buck as of right now. i mean you can get a x2 3600+ and oc it to compete with newer quads with the right cooling. As other people have said i really hope AMD is planning a surprise attack and not a surprise failure.
 
Originally posted by: RussianSensation
AMD gained 4% points in market share in the last quarter....using old X2s and old A64s. Even if Barcelona is marginally faster (5-10%) than Penryn, it's back in the game for a year. The real problem is Intel's Nehalem which will be out in 2009 and AMD will be behind once again.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Nehalem is gonna be a monster. An Octo-Core Nehalem will probably be my next upgrade sometime in mid-late 2009.
 
I like what AMD did to help Intel's competitiveness, but in terms of their processors, I've had a much better experience with intel.


My


X2 4400+ cost: 600 dollars upon release and:

- Would overclock about 3-400mhz at best


My Core2Duo E6600 cost: 350 dollars upon release and

- Has overclocked 1.3 Gigahertz, or 3-4 times as much as my AMD chip at 1/2 the price.


 
OP: With all due respect, Barcelona is 'late', but is certainly not 'slow'...not yet at least. Just because it's "slower than expectations" doesn't mean that it will be slower than the C2D/C2Q.
 
Originally posted by: Frackal
I like what AMD did to help Intel's competitiveness, but in terms of their processors, I've had a much better experience with intel.


My


X2 4400+ cost: 600 dollars upon release and:

- Would overclock about 3-400mhz at best


My Core2Duo E6600 cost: 350 dollars upon release and

- Has overclocked 1.3 Gigahertz, or 3-4 times as much as my AMD chip at 1/2 the price.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but you`re neglecting the fact that CPU speeds are way higher now. Do you think it would be fair to compare the 600mhz overclock I get on my Opteron with the 200mhz overclock I got on my AthlonÉ

I`m certain that there were chips from AMD that could overclock 50%+ at the time you got your 4400+. The A64 2800+ comes to mind.
 
All the "AMD is done" stuff is a bit ridiculous. Yeah, a lot of us (including me) went to Intel for their latest build. I ran an Athlon XP for 3 years, followed by an Athlon64. The fact is, AMD had the performance lead for a solid 2-3 years...now Intel has the performance lead. It's a back and forth business. Even if Barcelona isn't the C2D killer AMD wants it to be, it will still be fast, and AMD will do just fine. Intel may take the lead for the next 2-3 years, but then AMD will likely pop back on top for a while.
 
CTho9305:
Don't know so much about K7, but K6 was basically Nextgen's processor (and AMD just bought that company and made small changes for that processor).

K7 -project were led by Dirk Meyer who was DEC Alhpa - project leader. ..also Jerry Sanders approached engineers who had worked in Alpha-project (after DEC had 'killed' that project). I don't know did AMD use other Alpha-technology on K7 than DEC Alpha EV6 bus architecture.

I think it was AMD design, but people who made it were acquired from NEC.
 
Well here's one vote hoping AMD isn't "done for".

Unless you'd all like to be paying $1200 for your next Intel chip.

I think a major restructuring is in order but I believe they will pull through, even if Barcelona disappoints (and that appears quite likely.)
 
Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
Intel is supposedly aiming at a Q4 08 launch for Nehalem which is sooner than expected.
Click to expand...
Isn't Fusion supposed to be coming out before then? From what I've read, Fusion will come out in 2008...so chances are it will either be out at the same time as Nehalem or even sooner.
 
Originally posted by: Rusin
CTho9305:
Don't know so much about K7, but K6 was basically Nexgen's processor (and AMD just bought that company and made small changes for that processor).
Click to expand...

Yeah, I knew that.

K7 -project were led by Dirk Meyer who was DEC Alhpa - project leader. ..also Jerry Sanders approached engineers who had worked in Alpha-project (after DEC had 'killed' that project).
Click to expand...

Knew that too.

I think it was AMD design, but people who made it were acquired from DEC.
Click to expand...

That's not really a particularly meaningful statement though. Granted, the chief architect was (and I'm sure others were), but there is a huge amount of company-switching that goes on in industry; if you consider the average length a person spends at a company, it's very likely that many (or even most?) of the more senior people at a company came from another company. The people I know who worked on K7 weren't from DEC (though my sample size is very small so it may not be representative).
 
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