Banks backing away from recent user fees.

[SparkyJJO]

I can understand the "money printing thing" but if that were the case, wouldn't the economy be overheating right now from all of the "free flowing money"? Seems to me that the money is collecting at the top with a 404-trickle down not found right now.

My "printing money like no tomorrow" comment was not meant to be taken as the only thing that is affecting the value of the dollar. I suppose I shouldn't have mentioned it at all. Then you somehow still manage to throw your partisan anti-rich crap in there that has no bearing on the subject at hand.

The point is, the value of the dollar is going DOWN, so prices are going UP. I hope you understand that.

 

[Lanyap]

It's bad PR to be nickel and diming people who just bailed your sorry @ss out.

Speaking of nickel and diming, Redbox is raising their DVD rental fee 20 cents in part because of the the debit card fee law. That's right, it seems that when they put a cap on the fee they also put a floor that is higher than it is now. So businesses like Redbox, Blockbuster, dollar stores, etc who have high volume, low dollar sales will have to pay more in debit card fees.

 

[JSt0rm]

The point is, the value of the dollar is going DOWN, so prices are going UP. I hope you understand that.

Thats actually a good thing. If we have inflation on money then people hoarding large amounts of it will attempt to invest it to keep their $ value the same. This would be the best thing to happen for our economy.

Hyperinflation is bad of course but so is deflation.

 

[Darwin333]

What started it was the over draft order and outrageous fees.

Don't know how it got onto the swipe fee.

The over draft situation was a direct attack on the people.

They used that as an excuse to go after the swipe fee.

Walmart lobbied for it and won.

 

[Darwin333]

Thats actually a good thing. If we have inflation on money then people hoarding large amounts of it will attempt to invest it to keep their $ value the same. This would be the best thing to happen for our economy.

Hyperinflation is bad of course but so is deflation.

Do you see the record treasury sales in which people are basically losing money to loan it to the government?

People are not investing because they think it is to risky. Those very same people are smart enough to realize that a small loss via inflation is much better than a large loss via a bad investment.

Its not like they are making tons of money on the interest or they simply don't want to make money.

edit: and since the middle/lower class wages have been, and will continue to be, flat or even worse declining they will still take it in the shorts..... again.

 

[JSt0rm]

Do you see the record treasury sales in which people are basically losing money to loan it to the government?

People are not investing because they think it is to risky. Those very same people are smart enough to realize that a small loss via inflation is much better than a large loss via a bad investment.

Its not like they are making tons of money on the interest or they simply don't want to make money.

Well I'm no expert but if we are close to deflation I can see people sitting on money as there is no risk. As we get more and more inflation you will see people invest more and more. And when I say invest Im talking about the very wealthy and their ability to start up business as a way to keep their wealth if it begins to shrink not buying into treasury.

 

[Darwin333]

A better place for banks to make money is by making proper and prudent business and real estate loans. Too bad they destroyed those two by making and selling bad loans and crashing the economy. Bankers must hate themselves about now. It's always harder to swindle people when you become a fabulously well known swine.

They do hate themselves but at night they soak in their tubs full of 100 dollar bills that they got by ripping off a fuckload of people and it makes them feel all better inside.

 

[Darwin333]

Well I'm no expert but if we are close to deflation I can see people sitting on money as there is no risk. As we get more and more inflation you will see people invest more and more. And when I say invest Im talking about the very wealthy and their ability to start up business as a way to keep their wealth if it begins to shrink not buying into treasury.

Unless the money you are sitting on is denominated in houses, we are nowhere remotely close to deflation at present.

Of course things can change in a short amount of time but the wealthy are very capable of liquidating most investments (at least the ones that I believe you are talking about). Generally the very wealthy invest in other businesses versus actually starting their own.

And I used treasuries as an example of the very wealthy being willing to take a very small haircut (such as inflation in your post) to avoid the risk of a very large one (other investments).

 

[JSt0rm]

But we are not at high levels of inflation either. The fact that it is teetering on deflation/inflation means some people will sit and ride it out.

 

[JSt0rm]

Deflating money means it is gaining value over time. This is bad because it just means the longer you sit on it the more its worth so consumer spending goes to a stand still because you can buy tomorrow for less then it costs today.

So yes we don't want the entire economy to be like the housing market. Thats what deflation would bring and its painful for all except the ultra wealthy.

 

[Darwin333]

I am not so sure about that. The swipe fees were one of the reasons they wanted to get into banking. Walmart if nothing else is very good about passing savings to its customers.

We are talking about pennies per item. You wouldn't notice if they did (which they will not).

Do you really honestly believe that they spent all that money and effort lobbying for this so that they could save their customers money? Or perhaps is it just a tad bit more plausible that their intent was to make themselves more money?

 

[Darwin333]

Deflating money means it is gaining value over time. This is bad because it just means the longer you sit on it the more its worth so consumer spending goes to a stand still because you can buy tomorrow for less then it costs today.

So yes we don't want the entire economy to be like the housing market. Thats what deflation would bring and its painful for all except the ultra wealthy.

I agree, but it isn't happening right now and does not appear that it will happen anytime soon. Looking at the Feds actions over the last few years one can make a very reasonable assumption that they will not allow it to happen to any serious degree either.

I am not saying that it couldn't happen or won't but I highly doubt that it is the reason that the wealthy are "hoarding" their money.

 

[Darwin333]

But we are not at high levels of inflation either. The fact that it is teetering on deflation/inflation means some people will sit and ride it out.

I disagree. They would have to see pretty substantial deflation to get back even (que QE 4-15) and I don't know of any reasonable expectation deflation being that high before the Fed stops it.

 

[JSt0rm]

I disagree. They would have to see pretty substantial deflation to get back even (que QE 4-15) and I don't know of any reasonable expectation deflation being that high before the Fed stops it.

fair enough. I honestly dont know enough about the subject to say if we are on the edge of deflation or not.

 

[glenn1]

fair enough. I honestly dont know enough about the subject to say if we are on the edge of deflation or not.

You hardly need to be an economist to see that tangible goods (basic materials, precious metals, food, energy, etc) are inflating; while assets (equities, real estate, etc) are deflating, with Treasuries being pretty much the lone exception.

 

[JSt0rm]

You hardly need to be an economist to see that tangible goods (basic materials, precious metals, food, energy, etc) are inflating; while assets (equities, real estate, etc) are deflating, with Treasuries being pretty much the lone exception.

I havent really noticed my gas and food going up in price but if it is it is.

 

[Darwin333]

fair enough. I honestly dont know enough about the subject to say if we are on the edge of deflation or not.

It could be argued that at one point we where but after seeing the Feds actions the last few years it is very difficult to believe that we will enter into a deflationary spiral big enough to make sitting on your money (and losing potential gains from now until then) a good bet.

There is no doubt in anyones mind that if deflation became a serious threat the Fed will buy every last treasury bond issued to combat it.

Obviously I can't tell you with any degree of certainty exactly why the wealthy are sitting on their money but I think the most reasonable answer is that there is nothing that they see to invest in that is worth the risk/reward. I have anecdotal evidence (US treasury bonds) on my side but it is still anecdotal. What I do think it proves is that a lot of people with billions upon billions of dollars are willing to accept very minimal and relatively defined losses to protect against much larger potential losses in other investments.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

They are backing away from debt card fees but those fees will be rerouted somewhere else. At the end of the day someone has to pay for the real cost of the fees accumulated by these transactions. There is no way in hell you can avoid the reality of cost in life without burying your head in a fantasy that the reality of costs do not exist or are somehow made up or can be swept under a rug without repercussions.

Furthermore (as stated by some) it was not banks who lobbied to dump these fees onto their customers but instead it was large scale retail merchants who lobbied for this regulation at their benefit which is again another example of how most large government regulations is indeed designed for the benefit of one larger set of businesses at the expense of other businesses and their customers.

Links to RedBox story which was mentioned.

Redbox Raises Rates
Blames debit-card swipe-fee regulation


http://www.cspnet.com/news/services/articles/redbox-raises-rates

http://m.ibtimes.com/redbox-raises-rental-rates-blockbuster-durbin-amendment-239777.html

 

[HeXen]

I will never understand why consumers use banks. My credit-union is a non-profit organization (owned by its members) and I can use other credit unions (for free) in the same network (which is huge) anywhere in the country. My account also has similar protections from insolvency thanks to NCUA.

i also use a credit union and quite frankly its not all that. even less so now that they had to open up more (was only for certain company employees which now those companies are gone) and is basically now just a regular bank. they beg for anyone to join them

 

[Itchrelief]

My "printing money like no tomorrow" comment was not meant to be taken as the only thing that is affecting the value of the dollar. I suppose I shouldn't have mentioned it at all. Then you somehow still manage to throw your partisan anti-rich crap in there that has no bearing on the subject at hand.

The point is, the value of the dollar is going DOWN, so prices are going UP. I hope you understand that.

Considering your sig and your post, I wouldn't be flinging any crap about partisanship. Come on.

 

[Darwin333]

They are backing away from debt card fees but those fees will be rerouted somewhere else. At the end of the day someone has to pay for the real cost of the fees accumulated by these transactions. There is no way in hell you can avoid the reality of cost in life without burying your head in a fantasy that the reality of costs do not exist or are somehow made up or can be swept under a rug without repercussions.

Furthermore (as stated by some) it was not banks who lobbied to dump these fees onto their customers but instead it large scale retail merchants who lobbied for this regulation at their benefit which is again another example of how most large government regulations are indeed designed for the benefit of one larger set of businesses at the expense of other businesses and their customers.

Link to RedBox story which was mentioned.

Redbox Raises Rates
Blames debit-card swipe-fee regulation


http://www.cspnet.com/news/services/articles/redbox-raises-rates

Isn't it amazing how some of us can call for legal justice against the banks when they commit obvious crimes yet defend them when they are being blamed for something not of their doing?

You should join us.

 

[Darwin333]

i also use a credit union and quite frankly its not all that. even less so now that they had to open up more (was only for certain company employees which now those companies are gone) and is basically now just a regular bank. they beg for anyone to join them

Sure beats giving your money to someone who bent you and everyone you know over a table and forcefully fucked you in the ass without lube, doesn't it?

There is exactly one difference between rape and sex and that is consent.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Isn't it amazing how some of us can call for legal justice against the banks when they commit obvious crimes yet defend them when they are being blamed for something not of their doing?

You should join us.

You want to expand the power and reach of government to enact changes without any thought of the costs and consequences of said changes, sorry I have no desire to join a mob.

 

[Lanyap]

Isn't it amazing how some of us can call for legal justice against the banks when they commit obvious crimes yet defend them when they are being blamed for something not of their doing?

You should join us.

It's not about defending the banks, it's about defending consumers who will pay more because of the new debit card interchange fee legislation. This is especially true for the poor who don't always have the options that those of us with money have. I was reading about a situation in my local paper the other day where someone in a poor area that only had one bank in the area who was going to start charging debit card fees. They don't have a credit union, they don't have enough money in their accounts to avoid the fee and many don't have the transportation or are not mobile to get to a bank out of the area.

 

[soccerballtux]

I will never understand why consumers use banks. My credit-union is a non-profit organization (owned by its members) and I can use other credit unions (for free) in the same network (which is huge) anywhere in the country. My account also has similar protections from insolvency thanks to NCUA.

is NCUA backed by the federal reserve to the tune of $500B like the FDIC is if their funds dry up?